lately i’ve been having some difficulty with players who guess parry the entire round before and after every move.
ive been revamping my playstyle to circumvent this problem entirely (without guessing!) but im wondering how effective the little tricks chun can do to get out of a parried move are vs. each character.
c.mk and b.hp can both be canceled to HCB+K when parried, they can also both be canceled to lightning legs
the only one of these that i’ve used allot (and with allot of success) is back fierce canceled to lightning legs when parried.
obviously the flip over kick is only one parry on hit but what about using it to go way past them?
some other shit ive been mulling over : i feel like its not worth it to ever use c.lp anymore to tick. its one chun’s best tools but i feel like against fishers i have allot of my arsenal removed.
mainly i want to know how dangerous the characters who benefit the most from early parries against chun are even with these tricks. namely : DUDLEY and ken.
i remember hearing Jwong say on a podcast his toughest match was Dudley’s that just don’t care. i feel you on that buddy! normally you only have to beat a playstyle for some of a match before they switch to something else but lately its been so persistent i have to increase the ways of beating this style directly instead of trying to force them to play outside of it.
Yeah. If someone keeps guess parrying you, just walk up and throw them while they’re mashing parry. And the flip kick is a horrible idea for a parry punish. I would imagine that standing jab and close standing roundhouse would beat it clean (haven’t tested any of this yet). Not to mention it is extremely easy to parry the flip kick anyway.
thanks for the replies guys, i’ve been replacing more and more pokes with kara throws whenever i notice they are looking for parry now and its really been working out well.
also just playing “trickier” with my ranges when i do poke.
so from watching some MOV and Nuki matches the flip kick beats 2 things that i think lightning legs doesn’t (although im not 100% about this)
those things are ken low forward and dudley crouching roundhouse. i think it also beats ken crouching strong.
ive been thinking about it and i think this is only good before you have meter and if you notice that they like to punish with one of those moves specifically.
many ken’s like to low forward shoryu shoryu early on. depending on the dudley player dud might like to cr. roundhouse
the reason i think its not worth it when you have meter is because most good players won’t for a punish straight away when you have meter cuz they are afraid of the super cancel.
however when you don’t have meter they don’t really think about it.
overall its a gimmick but i think its worth a few uses in those situations if you notice your opponent using those punishes. just something else for the bag of tricks if you have your opponent felt out, not something super solid.
and only use the flipkick that hits. its more of a “i hope this works to save my ass” instead actually leverage to poke more with hahaha
Usually these types of players are baiting the parry my mentor does this a lot to me. When playing as CHUN we usually look to out space our opponents and or out poke our opponents which is good but veteran or seasoned players use this to there advantage. If your opponent is dancing in your max poke range and wiffing jabs or standing or crouching shorts they are buffering the parry motion after each poke is wiffed. Try to only poke when u can punish or mix the timing up. A very good poke is crouching m.p its hard to react to and has really good range usually catches people off guard.
Out-footsie’ing them works fine too, but you do bring up a point about Ken and Dudley, player’s seem to close the gap very quickly with them. Random Lightning Legs after pokes helps too, especially in the corner.
Also: Face, I’m going to try and make it to Final Round, we should rematch from SB3, I could still learn a lot of Chun/Chun from you.
some players refuse to play footsies they just jump in over and over looking for parries and the risk/reward is awful early in the round.
if dud gets a solid parry when i miss the LLs on a back fierce lightning legs on parry after hitting them with it 5x prior, the damage is in his favor.
lately i just reset those situations and forget about getting damage and focus on ruining their setup for big damage. until i get my meter…
watching rikimaru play really made me think about how i deal with another player’s offense.
i used to think : i can turn ANY setup around , my chun is a goddamn WALL of death.
now i think : i’ll play the good hands and fold the bad cuz this shit ain’t worth it.
additionally there is one more HUGE component i’ve discovered lately. when you let someone get into their rhythm they feel more confident that you are in their mixup.
its better to just avoid all their setups and wait for a mistake. that is because they are starting to have to think of new ways to attack and that makes them slow. you let someone jump in 8 times and just avoid it the 9th time you dash under c.mk xx super after they whiff an air move cuz they were starting to think "what should i do next " or something and got sloppy
basically this , to me, means jumping as it is the safest. even if you get clocked in the air, whatever he can’t combo you so its no biggie.
lately i try to get those players in a jump pattern and then mix it up to score air to air hits so i can build meter.
similarly i generally now will only anti air AFTER i see them do an air move. if they don’t do one before i can see it i’m jumping out.
also imo wall jump is one of the most powerful turtle tools in the entire game. probably THE most powerful.
asserting ground control, even if he gets a couple times, is still a lot more damaging to dudley than going up to meet him in the air. besides jump in parry, b.fierce legs beats out pretty much everything besides a predictably timed rh, which you can counter with parry or walk back trip guard. if you’re gonna play chun b.fierce legs should be automatic esp. in this match. her ground control>his random damage on jump ins. if you make sure to focus on a-airing him, he’ll never have a chance to pull any of his shenanigans on you. perfect sin, signing out
your talking about the super standard way to fight a generic dudley. its also different depending on whether or not you have meter.
dudley has nothing to fear until you have super. btw a couple times of dud getting a jump in is a dead chun. even one time can cost you the match because your knocked down, cornered and dudley has meter from c.rh juggling you so your in a 50/50.
back fierce lightning legs is godlike of course, i use it a ton, but my point was that you simply cannot rely on it to win all of your anti-air battles. first of sometimes they can parry the lightning legs and get over to the other side of you and sometimes they can start a combo from that.
secondly you are getting really piddly damage from the LLs compared to what dudley does to you if you hit kick one less time than you need to. you actually get more damage from air to air double fierce and it is more likely to hit if he is looking for back fierce parry. not only that you push him into his corner and even if he does parry both the worst he can hit you with is some random air move that isn’t a combo. so how is that worse? its not. in fact its straight up better when you have a precedent of back+fierce LLs. but if you think you can seriously just do one thing against all of dudley’s jump ins and be good to go your not playing very good people.
obviously chun owns dudley on the ground if he pokes at all.
if a dudley is going to poke or is willing to play ground game then of course its easy to stand inside his sweep range and fierce him on reaction for any button press.
but not all dudley’s do that, this entire thread is talking about players that don’t play that type of game.
you can’t reliably get under his jump ins unless he jumps very close to you.
btw depending on when dudley does his jump in move you don’t always get a trip guard hit and you don’t want to walk yourself into the corner so willingly.
controlling the ground is a given, chun owns the ground for free. there are players who build styles around circumventing that fact and refuse to play footsies.
to break it down even more basic: you want to zone dudley right, then why play his game instead of yours. gtfo of there when he jumps and get back to zoning. if dudley is comfy jumping in on you that is bad and the damage you get is never as good as what he is wagering.
reset the situation to chun’s strength.
you have to make them feel uncomfortable and get hit by shit they don’t expect, mix it up and play safe.
thanks for the tips, I can kara throw 90 % of the time, My hit confirming isnt 100% yet, Im working on it every time I play.
I do punish shit with sa2 alot, like I’ll keep punishing sweeps, urien shoulders, and elbows etc. and they keep eating sa2…maybe they just dont care lol after all these are just casual matches…
But I will work on what you said.