Beginner match analysis / gameplay critique thread


#481

Hi guys,

So I am pretty much a noob, and I play Ken at 1.1k pp.

The other day I found a player at 3.7k pp but 0 BP who was playing Ken too which was obviously not his main (hence the 0 BP). I had some pretty close games with him but he did beat me both times.

Could you guys take a look a these replays and tell me the main points where I fail in your opinion.
From my personnal opinion I lacked a lot of anti-air and I did a lot of fireball, for some reason, instead of DP sometimes and I remember it not being an input error most of the time.


#482

Both matches the other player was basically jumping at you non-stop and I only saw you anti-air once. In a match between decently-skilled players jumps should be fairly rare and calculated.

In my opinion you should just try to start anti-airing with cr. hp for now. Also try neutral jumping in order to preemptively meet jumps in the air (I don’t know which of Ken’s normals is good for this). Consistent anti-air is a really important skill to have in order to force people to fight on the ground.

Other than that I will just say that you kind of seem like you’re trying to play Ryu as Ken. Ken should be played more offensively and his fireball recovery isn’t very good.

Edit: never mind about the kara throw I see you did use it a few times.


#483

So for you my biggest problem is definitly anti-air + too defensive?

Anything else particulary bad?


#484

I’ve been getting bodied so hard lately. Not entirely sure what’s wrong, aside from just being generally scrubby. Any advice on improving would be appreciated.


#485

I could use some pointers, I’m completely new to Street Fighter: 1 2 3 4 5. Like I can make a fireball come out (sometimes), that’s about it, but I had fun despite my lack of skill so I’d like get better but I’m not really sure where to start. Please don’t mock me because you take the basics for granted. My experience with the FGC has not been pleasant.


#486

SFV is a new game however there are still core concepts that will transfer from one SF title to another, or even between 2D fighters.
First and foremost the saying “less is more” really counts for SF, it is about space control is key, it is not some abstract concept, it is very real and it has real implications. Thinking consciousely about where you stand on screen will make you a much better player very quickly. Ofcourse you’ve probably heard of the term “footsies”, it is more than simply whiff punishment with pokes, the entire premise of it deals with core fg concepts such as spacing, anticipation, reaction and reading the opponent.

I’ll very quickly give a few examples and i’ll try to go over your matches and try to point out some general stuff and key moments. I’ve seen your name come by mostly iin some 3D community forums, so i’m pretty sure you are already familiar with a lot of FG lingo and concepts and you’ll pick up on this stuff a lot faster than a complete newbie to fg’s.

Like i said before “less is more”, in SF that means to not haphazerdly throw out normals and projectiles or even specials just because you feel like it, there has to be a delibirate reason for doing it. To not simply jump or dash because you want to get closer. To no press buttons when you are under attack because you want breathing space. There has to be put in some more though than this.

In general you want to walk instead of dashing, walking allows you acces to immediately block, and perform every other normal or special. Jumping leaves you vulnerable as does dashing. Dealing with projectiles, from far range you can jump forward without much risk. You can block and walk foward until you see another fireball and block again, ths works from further ranges, however the closer you come the tougher it gets. It is harder to react and they can throw more fireballs faster, reason for this is in SF you can only have 1 projectile on screen(ofcourse there are exceptions such as juri, and now Fang etc etc) You can throw a new fireball when the other is dissapeared. They’ll disappear quicker and quicker the closer you get, thus the opponent can throw them faster and faster until you can’t really gain ground anymore by walking forward. Neutral jumping minimizes risk to being anti aired and the fireball still stays on screen, thus you can move forward while the opponent cannot throw a fireball. It’s a really underutilzed tactic by beginners.

Once you’ve worked your way through the projectiles and you are in your preferred range, normals will become important. This is where “footsies” will start, the little dance back and forh between the opponent and yourself to fight for the ground and horizontal space. Footsies is really dynamic and there are no set rules to it, some things are more effective against one opponent than others. Fireballs are also part of footsies still, around max range poke distance you cannot perform a reactinary jump over them. Often it will also happen that the fireball will catch the jump forward even if you anticipate it. This is actually a very strong distance for paying the fireball game, it is basically your furthest poke, but it has a lot of risk. Daigo, Bonchan, Alex Valle, John Choi all use their projectiles at this range and they’ll dare you to jump, do not fall into a pattern when throwing these fireballs.
You want to see what the opponent will do when you are around their poke range, will they check you with a normal or will the press nothing. do the walk back, great then you’ve gained ground and pushed them further into the corner. The reason for doing the little back and forth dance is walking into their poking range and then outside off it, to bait out a whiffed normal, one which you can whiff punish or use to gain ground. If they’ll do a poke only after you’ve performed one, the they are trying to counterpoke. The downside to counterpoking is that you are waiting for them to stick out a normal, they are looking for something specific, this is an excellent time to do something unexpected if not “risky”, you can walk forward a lot further than you normally would and can sometimes even get a throw, you can also try a dash in throw/normal. You can walk forward further than you normally could and get access to different normals which might give you more benefit on either hit or block than your other further ranging normals. You can also learn the timings the opponent likes to press buttons at. This is basically “footsies” at the basic level and you gain a lot of insight what type of player the opponent is, info which you can use in different situations.

During footsies and mid/close range fireball game it is extremely important to be able to focus on the ground, and when they jump, still have the shoryuken ready or another anti air. This is a very tough skill to master. However you can also use this against you opponent, play the neutral game and let the opponent focus on the ground game, and then you can catch people offguard with a jump attack, don’t make it too obvious though. If you can whiff a normal on the ground like a cr.mk and still anti air the opponent then you are on point with your anti air game. Even at the highest level people will not anti air everything(except fuudo).

So let’s comment on your videos.
1)

  • At the start of the round after throwing 1 fireball you jumped immediately in anticipation for him to also throw another fireball, unfortunately he did not, good try, though you might have been a bit too far to get a jump punish if he would’ve thrown a fireball.

  • At 0:08 you threw him and he didn’t quickrise, you press some lights, if those lights would’ve connected, would you have converted it into more damage or gone into some other normal which wouldn’t combo anyway? If you use lights in SFV offensively then look at the first light and see if it connected on ht or block. This way you’KNOW the 2nd ight will connect and you can cancel that in a special such as a Shoryuken(input might be a bit tricky if you’ve never really sat down and tried to practice it). A bit later you did cr.mp, way too far away, however you had the presence of mind to look for his pokes too in that situation and tried to whiff punish it with a sweep, good job. Unfortunately you were in recovery too long from the sweep so you couldn’t get the air to air in time, in that situation a dp would’ve been perfect choice.

  • At 0:20 when you go for a jump the opponent also tries to go air to air with his j.mp, what you gained from this is that his anti air game is weak(like yours ^^), so to stop that is to throw out a normal earlier than you otherwise would when performing a jump attack.

  • At 0:25 you jump and he blocks it, but he gets hit by our cr.hk(never do a sweep that close, against even an average opponent that will get punished HARD) Why did he get hit? There was no counterhit, so he didn’t press a button, however he migth’ve tried a shoryuke but was too late on the input, or he migh’ve held up to jump away. You gained some info from this which you could use later on.

  • At around 0:35 he has done multiple jumps, when this happens, don’t press too any buttons, simply be on the look out for them and go air to air, or try to space yourself he is incapable of doing a crossup attempt so you can perform the shoryuken. His main approach is jumping, so you could’ve won easily by standing outside crossup range but in jump range and wait for the jump to happen and then UPPAHCUT(like infiltration would say). If you can’t get the uppercut motion, practice it from both sides diligently, it is one of the most important motions in SF, a lot of characters rely on it.

  • 2nd round opening you throw an ex fireball, perhaps also in anticipation of him also throwing an ex fireball. You both started the first round with a fireball as an opener so it could’ve worked. However from that distance you could still react and neutral jump or simply block, the chip is really negliable. The reward however is a knockdown.
    Not saying it was good or bad, just didn’t work out unfortunately.

  • At 1.05 you got hit by a cr.mk, the he did cr.hk. After you saw the cr.mk you should’ve held downback, probably due to unfamiliarity witht he game and SF in general, but cr.mk is usually canceled into a fireball. Regardless, when someone is pressing buttons and you got hit, it’s fine to simply block and let it happen. This will also give you insight in how their offense looks like. In this guy’s case he just does constant jumps and crossup attempt until he gets that one hit.

  • At 1:12 you got hit by his cr.mk after his jump in, in SF you block by holding downback. you block the low attacks look for the overheads(jumps and grounded overhead moves)

  • At 1:20 you were pressing buttons during his offense, this in general is a no no due to you going to get counterhit most likely, on top of that you used mainly medium and even heavy attacks, they are either too slow to interrupt his “offense” or don’t reach far enough. Best thing again was to simply block, he wasn’t in range to throw, so there was no need to press anything for that long. Blocking in this game is also undervalued way too much. Getting thrown is annoying but it shouldn’t be scary, you cna quickrise from that so there aren’t any ambiguous setups from that, it i also less damaging than gettign hit by a counterhit heavy attack.

  • You can’t establish a fireball game without showing that you can anti air. Especially against other beginners it takes a humongous amount of anti airing to stop them, and even then, they might not stop because it is their ONLY approach, they only way they know how to get close and deal damage, the other is jumping back and throwing fireballs.

  • The entire match was basically a scramble, you want to slow down the game and gain some space to compose yourself. Ofcourse a lot of this is due to your inexperience obviousely, but it’s something to think about.

2)

  • You see the opponent parrying your fireballs, it build v-gauge for him, instead of jumping twice fullscreen to get close you could do a ligh fireball, which is slower and can cover your approach. Throw it and walk/dash afterwards, look what he’ll do, he might jump so you are in range to UPPAHCUT. Ken his fireball game isn’t as good as Ryu plus he has the Parry, going fullscreen with Ken isn’t as effective in this matchup, hower staying around mid range is good enough where you can atleast threaten with a jump.
  • At 0:15 you notice he did a parry and you sweeped his recovery for nice beefy damage, info for later, he tried to anti air your jump with a parry. You can throw parries or wait slightly and punish him for it. If you would’ve done a deep jump attack then he couldn’t do anything about it either. After the knockdown you went for a crossup with a punch attack? Use j.mk.
  • A bit later around 0:17 you haphazerdly press cr.lp and see it whiffed, yet still keep pressing, ate a fat crushcounter. It isn’t bad to block in this game. Still a bit later you are continuing to press crouching and standing lp, maybe to get some breathing space, but you are doing it in a very uncontrolled way(mashing). So when the opponent whiffed a shoryuken in your face you weren’t either ready to punish or just felt like trolling. Can’t really comment on that lol.
  • At 0:30 you start pressing cr.lk, way outside of range, not once but multiple times, if you see it whiff, don’t press it again, even if you are unfamiliar witht he ranges. SF isn’t a game where you can mash your way to victory.
  • At 0:46 you threw him, you challenged his pressure attempt, he luckily mistimed his st.mk or you would’ve gotten counterhit. Blocking is’t bad in this game. If you want them to respect your wakeup, do a mp shoryuken, it’s invincible, but also highly punishable.
  • At 0:48 you threw an ex fireball waaaaay too early, even if it was properly timed there was no reason to do that. He cou;dn’t have gotten up and thrown a fireball himself.
    After he blocked the regular fireball he jumped, as did you, just wait and see what they’ll do after they either get hit by it or blocked it.

I want to comment the rest of the match and the other matches but unfortunately i cannot give clear advice because they all are basically scrambles, it is soley luck that you either win or loss. Not to put you down though but it truly is difficult to give critique and advice for a pure beginner that is throwng out stuff.

In general i’ll leave you with a few pointers though:[list]
[] Block low in SF, be on the lookout for the jumps and overhead attack where you need to stand.
[
] Press less buttons and stay more grounded.
[] Learn some basic 2-1 combos(a normal attack canceled into a special move) For instance cr.mk xx hp fireball(poke) and st.hp xx hp shoryuken(punish)
[
] You don’t always have to pressure with a crossup, you can do it from the ground with a “meaty” attack, one where you hit their wakeupframes and they have to block or do an invincible move. Example do cr.mp on their wakeup.
[] check what people are doing in different common situations, and gather knowledge from that. Pay attention to their habits.
[
] instead of dashing, walk more.
[*] learn how to perform the shoryuken, then start anti airing people, do nothing else than look for that jump, or use another normal to anti air with, say Ken his cr.hp.
[/list]


#487

Yo,
I’m a Tekken player and I recently decided to pick up SF and get really solid at it. In my opinion I know Tekken fairly well when it comes to game mechanics, so I mostly understand stuff like getting counterhit, frame data and punishment. And even so, when I’m playing SF I don’t even know what I’m doing. I can do a few really basic combos consistently, like EX Divekick cr.mp Heavy Arrow.(sorry if my notation is weird lol, I’m probably gonna make some mistakes in my game reflection too)
Looking at the replay I can mostly tell what I’m doing wrong, but if anyone can point out some things I’m missing that would be great. Also, if anyone is interested in helping me in a practice session with skype or something that would help a lot. I’m the Cammy player btw.

0:15 I try to jump in with a jumping HK and I get a trade.
0:24 I get a counterhit LP and instead of pressuring I literally dash into his attack lol. What are some good followups after Cammy’s st.lp? I guess something like cr.mp would’ve been good at that range?
0:26 Should’ve definitely should’ve blocked with downback there after what looks like a jumping HP. Instead I eat everything. I think I should’ve DP’ed the moment I saw the jump in the first place.
0:29 I think I should’ve approached earlier here, he was doing attacks for no reason.
0:35 I try a random arrow here and I eat a throw, I think that was a punish. I shouldn’t do those, im pretty sure really good players can punish that really badly.
0:38 Ok so this happens to me a lot. I really don’t know what to do against this, they jump over me while I’m getting up and I eat a full combo. Any help please?
0:44 I go for a random focus attack, it hits me while he’s jumping at me. For some reason I thought I could still follow up with a DP but I get punished for my DP after he gets up lol. Definitely should’ve taken my focus and gone for a mixup while he was getting up. Really I should’nt have done that focus in the first place, should’ve just blocked and anti-aired when he jumped at me.
0:50 that again :frowning:
1:13 After I do some dumb stuff I jump into what was probably a HK and he went for I think a jumping LK so he was faster and gets the counterhit. If I could’ve reacted to his jump I think I could’ve done her airhthrow or something there.
1:32 Again he goes for I think HK and I press buttons and eat everything. I should anti-air and if I’m too slow keep blocking after I block his jumping heavy.
1:35 Again but it works out somehow lol
1:55 I kinda paniced so I mashed DP, I think I could’ve punished with at least an Arrow or maybe an Ultra but I’m not sure.
2:02 Misinput I wanted the ultra xD
2:05 I go into a focus level 1 for no reason, eat what looks like a jumping LK and I still mash myself to death…

So main questions:
-Good followups from Cammy standing LP?
-What is that thing he kept doing to me on wakeup? I think I heard people call it a cross-up or something, but what do I do against it on wakeup where I can’t anti-air? Maybe I’m just supposed to block but because the controls are flipped I’m just walking forward for a few frames or something?
-Anything I’m understanding wrong?


#488

What’s good, SRK…I’m new to the forums and am returning to playing Street Fighter after not playing since I was kid. I was never a high-level player, but would like to improve my skills now that I’m playing again. The games I played the most when I was a kid were the Genesis versions of Championship Edition and Super, always at a really fast rate. That said, I never learned proper fundamentals because the game was fast enough to just blast away.

I started playing Alpha 3 on Fightcade a few weeks ago, which was the first time playing since the late '90s. I’ve been doing some reading on the basic fundamentals and would like to work on them. Here’s a video that I took last night of my Ryu vs a Charlie/Gief player. The questions/things I want to work on are learning how to complete my inputs faster, proper footsies/spacing, safe jumping, and how to get better at anti-air. Any suggestions are appreciated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eA19_nAfpnw


#489

You are playing A3 probably the absolute worst SF to learn fundamentals in because airblock is awesome. If you do anything in the air in this game always hold back until you do it and do the jump in late into your jump.

Airblock also makes anti-airs harder since your DP’s need to be REALLY deep to work. Normal anti-airs like b. HK, RH, and b. FP are better from what I remember but you really can get blown up if someone uses v-ism bad.

A3 is also very combo heavy, pokes that don’t combo into super don’t mean much.

This game throws are kinda bleh so block a lot until you opponent pushes himself out, way to many wakeups you didn’t block.

Ryu do simple block strings like cr. MP->b.HK (if you have v-ism)

Your playing A3 learn V-ism lol

You lack anti-airs so you and your opponent just jump. If you want to gain fundamentals you need anti-airs so you can play a ground game and learn your spacings.


#490

Hi.

I watched the video and want to answer your mainquestion.

-A good follow-up from a st.lp is cr.mk, if you’re realy close you can do st.lp -> cl.mp. After cr.mk or cl.mp you should cancel into HK arrow on hit. If he blocks, backdash or walk back, Grappler will probably commandgrab.
-It is a crossup, you have to block the opposit direction.
-Not really most things you seem to understand.

Dunno if I can help you otherwise, I have my steamguide linked in my Signature,maybe you should take a look at it.


#491

[quote=“Sephiroth73003, post:489, topic:150977”]


#492

Yo I’m the same Yori who added you on steam some time ago xD
Ok cool I’ll try to follow up with cr.mk after st.lp. I think I’m slowly improving, but the pace in this game is really fast. Even if I watch my replays and see my mistakes I still make the same mistakes in the next match. I’m still really struggling with crossups and stuff, but I’m sure I’ll get used to it.
Thanks for the help man you’ve been nice on steam too :slight_smile:


#493

Hey guys, I’m super new to the USF4 scene…and I’d love if you guys could critique the crap outta my video… I know I’m not good, so don’t hold back on anything you have to say.

https://youtu.be/WOfin5CM6yI

some things that I’d just like to know, but not limited to…(since I don’t know enough about the game)

  1. What did I do well?
  2. What did I do bad?
  3. What could be better about the things I did well?
  4. What did my opponent do to get himself in any good or bad situations?
  5. What got me into those bad situations?
  6. What are my bad habits to keep an eye on?

I only picked Ryu because I know his specials from playing SF2 as a kid and playing a little bit of vanilla SF4…I’m trying to learn Abel…might just stick with Ryu if I can’t seem to get the hang of playing Abel at all. Who would you guys suggest are good for beginners? (I’m typically super bad with charge characters though)

Thanks for reading =D


#494

Your pretty new obviously from your play so I’ll just give you some general tips.

  1. Shoryuken when they randomly jump at you. You need to be able to anti-air people semi-consistently. That should be priority #1.
  2. You didn’t really use any normal but sweep in the neutral. Don’t do that so much try cr. MK into hadouken instead for now.
  3. Practice your execution basic specials a pit. Looked like I saw some jumping jabs and oddly spaced cr. FP’s that were probably messed up hadoukens or DP’s.
  4. Don’t jump as much. Learn to be comfortable walking where you need to be and learn where it is safe to stand outside your opponents poke ranges. This is called playing ‘footsies’ and is really important for Ryu (and most characters). Try to stand some place for a reason and know ahead of time where you want to stand and what you are trying to accomplish by standing there.

Long road in front of you so try getting this down and come back. Need to have more solid play in general for any really meaningful critiques. Right now your play is haphazard and kinda sloppy, it is obvious you are going through the motions and not doing stuff necessarily for any reason because you want to do that move.


#495

I’d like some advice on my gameplay. Am I playing too defensively with Cammy? I can’t tell if this play style is working out.

The first round was a complete blowup. I hadn’t played a Dhalsim in a while, and they are pretty rare.

I really struggle against Dudley. I don’t know how to get out of defense against him.

Zangief is tough. I think I played this match pretty well though.

I played this guy for a few matches and realized that he very rarely used SPD, none of which were standing, so I assumed that he couldn’t do standing SPDs, hence why I played more gutsy in this one.

Any advice appreciated, don’t hold back on the criticism.


#496

Any pointers/advice appreciated.


#497

@FAI_CW

It’s allways sad to see people trying to play footsies against Dhalsim. They want to play SF and Dhalsim is against them .
Try to find the jump-in that works good against the Dhalsim you’re playing against and try to whiffpunish his limbs with M Arrow or Sweep.
Every Dhalsim struggles with anti-airing, you just have to find out on which point he struggles.

Cammy has pretty good pokes against Dudley. However this Dudley was jumping at you the whole time. Practice your DP’s for anti-airing.
far.mp and cr.mk on max range can also blow Dudley up.
Neutraljumps can be effective once you have 1 bar stocked, Dudley has no good anti-airs against your EX Divekick outside of EX Uppercut and this will whiff a lot.
If he corners you be patient. If he never stops doing things DP him, don’t get predictable with DP’s,one blocked DP can cost you 40% of your life.
Be patient and carefull, this character is absolutly annoying.

Zangief, the MU is better then some people say.
Well against Zangief you play footsies, st.mk is good against him, far.mp is a good counterpoke, far.hk is also excellent,but don’t get predictable with them,focus can be bad for you.
Don’t jump at all. The only thing that can beat his Lariats clean is your EX Divekick and this only works if you delay them. If he is doing greenhands,you can throw him after every blocked/hit one. His greenhand is -2 on hit and your throw will pretty much beat everything, outside of his Super/Ultra.
If you block a Lariat you can punish with Arrows or Ultra.


#498

I see. Thanks for the matchup info.
I knew that Green Hand wasn’t safe, but I was too afraid of getting close to Gief, since Cammy’s throw range is garbage and doing her kara throw is hard on pad.

My anti airs weren’t great, I agree. Actually I read your Cammy guide before those matches, so I was a bit overwhelmed with my options and couldn’t decide what to AA with in time.
It has gotten better since. I just need more time to process all that info, especially now that I’m looking into frame data to see what moves and block strings are safe.

My problem with Dudley is that he has such good counter pokes. I’m too afraid of throwing out moves, and I think my opponent realized that.
I’ll work on my divekicks, the execution needed for non-ex isn’t exactly forgiving, so I’m not too confident about using them much.

And regarding Dhalsim…it’s just freaking Dhalsim. Gotta work on teching and not getting hit by that double sHP as much.
At least since that recording I’ve actually learned how to hit confirm certain combos. It’s still hard online, but I’m getting better at it for sure. Unsafe Spiral Arrows shouldn’t happen as much anymore :slight_smile:


#499

@Jaegermiester I’d say you missed two full punish opportunities vs gief. First was when he did ex-rbg, it looked like you choked and stuck a limb out, and the other was after he did yolo ultra; both could have been full neutral jump fierce, standing fierce, c.mp, etc punishes. Be careful with the flying barcelona, really you should use it to run instead of trying to hit his lariat or whatever; you can get headbutted and then subsequently lose the life lead.


#500

What’s up dudes?! First time poster, long time lurker. Wanted to see what your thoughts were on my basic Ryu play-style during the 4th beta for SFV

My go to in SF4 with him used to be Jump in HK, forward MP, low MK, low Tatsumaki and basic shenanigans like that. It seems besides a couple of target combos like MP, HP, HK and of course V-Trigger and Parries, alot of Ryu’s move set hasn’t really changed too much. Anyway, tell me what you think! This was a casual match. I capture in 60fps, so don’t forget to change your quality!