BenQ Monitors + Other Questions


#1

Ok,
So on BenQ’s websight, they say that the monitors have “low” input lag.

My question is really simple: instead of “low” input lag, how about “no” input lag. Zip zilch nada. Instant. Does such an HD monitor exist?

Also keep in mind it doesn’t have to be LCD or LED or whatever, plasma or even CRT is fine, I just want the fastest possible, no lag solution, like with old 480P monitors/TV’s that didn’t lag like back in the day.

I’ve played on BenQ’s over HDMI and the input lag was virtually non-existent with 3rd Strike on an Xbox 360.

Input is another thing. I have a Samsung LED 55", and through VGA on my old Xbox 360 there is zero lag. None. As good as the BenQ over HDMI, but of course with HDMI the 360 and any other console has noticeable and annoying lag.

Now what about PC? Don’t PC’s still use VGA as the normal output and wouldn’t this mean lag free over PC and VGA? Or do PC’s/graphics cards of today no longer support SVGA and instead forced to use HDMI? What then about lag?

What about PC monitors? Do those lag? I mean surely not that would be ridiculous to have mouse lag on a PC thus unacceptable? See I don’t know because my old PC still uses VGA.

I’ve heard about image degradation over VGA, but to me it makes zero sense, because my PC, which IIRC is an old Core 2 Duo machine, the monitor however is 1080P as is the output via VGA and there’s obviously no loss in image quality, so why would a console be any different?

My final question. I recently purchased an HDMI to VGA cord. It’s gold plated, which I’m pretty sure doesn’t make a difference but it was only 7$. It’s also 6ft long. Did I make a mistake getting such a long cable? Will that effect anything? My main question though, is… Well this cord is simply a cord, with a female HDMI and a male VGA. No box, just plugs. How is this possible? Does the TV or game system convert the signal? I’ve heard this lags. I guess I’ll know in 2 days when it arrives, but anyways, if anyone can answer some of or all of these questions it would be greatly appreciated.

All input is welcome because I know often times some people have conflicting information and that is ok, please feel free to say what you think even if your view is “controversial” or whatever, often times the popular sentiment is wrong.

Thanks.


#2

Just in case this is relevant:

The PC monitor is an HP 2159m, the PC again is a Core 2 Duo running Windows 7, and the monitor is hooked to the computer via VGA (or maybe SVGA or DVI - what’s the difference? Are they all the same thing?).

But again, it’s 1080P, zero lag, perfect image.

Man does it piss me off PS4 doesn’t support VGA natively like 360 did…

Yep just as I thought, 1920x1080. Doesn’t this sort of throw that whole “1080P over VGA degraded image” stuff out the window?


#3

For most models, about 10ms, its documented on Displaylag.com

NO.

LOL

Check out Display Lag.com

Input is another thing. I have a Samsung LED 55", and through VGA on my old Xbox 360 there is zero lag. None. As good as the BenQ over HDMI, but of course with HDMI the 360 and any other console has noticeable and annoying lag.

No, VGA is being phased out, DVI, HDMI, Display Port and similar standards are more popular now.

YES

All formats are subject to degradation. On Analog formats this means you get noise, on digital formats, too many packets lost means the signal is lost.

I told you in the other thread, yes you are making a mistake. Gold is actually a terrible conductor as far as metals go but gold does not oxide which is worst.

I also told you before, their is a chip in the plug.

Why are you creating a 2nd thread when I was the only one who answered you.

No it’s not.

VGA - Analog
DVI-A -Analog (VGA)
DVI-D -Digital (similar to HDMI)
DVI-I -Supports both modes.

The Xbox One does not support analog formats ether.

No, it does not work like that. 1920x1080 is only a resolution, a image size. I don’t even know why you are on this degradation tangent.
A Well made, quality VGA cable that has individual connections for its 15 pins and is properly shielded will be resistant to interference.
But that not what you bought with a cheap $7 VGA to HDMI cable.


#4

Ok you say PC monitors lag. How can that be? I would notice if there was even a microsecond lag when I’m moving the mouse around on my PC. There is zero lag period.

Also you LOL’d when I said old monitors didn’t lag. Um. They don’t. Back in the Dreamcast days there was no such thing as monitor lag, but if the port of the fighting game itself had lag, like Super Turbo, we’d know, whether it was 1. 2, or 3 frames. Same with arcade machines on the good ol Wells Gradeners. There is zero lag.

And I know theoretically or whatever it’s flashing pictures on a screen 60 times per second and video game systems have processing I understand that, I’m saying, how can I get, you know, the same input response that I got when I played NES and Sega Genesis games on my zenith TV through RF, which is to me ZERO (even id theoretically it’s not). That’s the kind of response I’m looking for on modern stuff.

I mean it should be possible. My PC is old, but it uses a 1080P monitor it displays 1080P, there’s no mouse lag, mame doesn’t lag, so why is that “lol”? Will modern stuff Be the same once I get a modern CPU and GPU?

Also can you explain the difference between DVI and VGA?


#5

Here’s something:

http://www.cellphonecases.com/3ft-Hdmi-To-Dvi-Cable.html?utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=productads&gclid=CjwKEAiAh560BRDu-aD93r-J_zoSJACrxZG2tt0OUL_o55E1K4RgaZf1davfmYeIjqE1rn6cI0RZDhoCwxjw_wcB#.VojMmew8LCQ

I understand that HDMI to VGA is going from digital to analog, but since DVI is digital, will this work with no lag as a solution for PS4?

-edit- come to think of it. If DVI is digital, I hope it’s not the same as HDMI… Yuck.

I can’t imagine that PC would replace an input that doesn’t lag (VGA) with one that does (HDMI or possibly DVI). DVI is old is it not? What’s the difference between the two? Is one better than the other in regard to lag?


#6

That has nothing to do with your display input lag on your HD TV or monitor.

All a VGA or DVI connection on a HDTV would do is put the TV into PC mode which will by-pass some but not all image post processing.
More image post processing you can avoid the less lag your display would receive.

They are very much the same thing, except DVI does not carry Digital Audio.

HDMI on its own does not lag. HDMI is based off of DVI-D (DIGITAL), its why a HDMI to DVI converter cable has no electronic parts, just straight wire.
With the PS4 you are best off just sticking to HDMI.

Scientifically all displays lag, even CRT. CRT screens are all analog with no actual processing, its just all waves being converted to a image or picture.
Go to Displaylag.com and start reading up.

You are never going to get that with current technology on modern displays.


#7

Ok. Well then in that case, like I said with my TV, when I hooked it via VGA for 360, “no” lag. If it had more lag than say, old CRT+Vintage consoles at 480p or less, I certainly couldn’t tell.

Err, I shouldn’t -quite- say that, because while it was a HUGE improvement from HDMI + Game Mode, and acceptable and quick, totally playable and up to my standard, when I went to my local SF group meet up and played 3S on the BenQ, via HDMI mind you, it felt smoother. Could have been in my head, maybe not.

Not a problem I use Optical audio anyway.

HDMI is unacceptable for either 360 or PS4 for my TV. No matter if it’s in game mode and no matter which settings are turned off, there is unacceptable lag.

VGA has “no” lag for 360. Is this because the signal is analog or because my TV sets itself into “PC Mode”?

Well, it might be scientifically true, but to my brain and human perception it is not.

I’m extremely sensitive to lag. My current PC has no perceptible lag to my standards. Whether I’m moving the mouse around or playing MAME or emulators of old consoles, it’s “lagless” at least to me. VGA connection, 1080P, LCD display. It matches the “lagless” feel when I play on a CRT in my room my actual Genesis and NES consoles, and while I don’t have a modern GPU/CPU, I don’t understand why modern gaming would be different but if you say so…

In other words I don’t understand why moving the mouse around or playing MAME and emulators has no lag,but playing modern games would?

Again, I guess we’ll just have to disagree, because when I play MAME or Gens or NES emulation on my PC it’s no different from playing the actual consoles in my room on my crappy old 25 year old CRT via RF in terms of input response.


#8

The problem is not HDMI, its your Samsung TV.
You, your self was asking about the Ben Q monitors, one of the better brand for PC monitors right now with approx 10ms of input lag.
Its what Evo uses now for their tournaments.


#9

Correction the problem is HDMI on, not just one tv, but 4:

Sony Bravia HDR 32". Sony Bravia 32". Samsung LED 55". Westinghouse CRAP 1024x768 ancient turd.

Using VGA on Xbox 360 solved the lag issue on EACH of these. HDMI lagged no matter what the settings.

And according to my research I’m not alone. Others are report the same thing online, HDMI lags, DVI and VGA do not.

Whatever the reason may be, I’m not a technical expert, it is what it is.

I’m just praying this damned HDMI to DVI cord works. Because if it doesn’t, then I’m pretty much done with consoles.

Downgrading from a 55" TV to a 24" that I have to pay 200$ for anyway is not a “solution” in my eyes, it’s bullshit.

I’m going to experiment hooking my computer up to my TVS via VGA to see how it looks and runs tomorrow.

Anyways thanks for the help and answers man.


#10

“I’m Mr. Meeseeks! Look at me!”


#11

I don’t get it


#12

There’s always some measure of delay no matter what display you are using. Which is why sites like DisplayLag exist.

Usually when a TV is less responsive over HDMI it’s because a bunch of extra processing shit is enabled over those inputs and those processing features aren’t available over inputs like VGA. For example I have a cheap Samsung 40" in my guest room that I had to edit the input name in the menu so that it considered the default “HDMI 1” input a “DVI/PC” input, which only really turned off all the unnecessary processing garbage I didn’t want. After that it was as responsive as the display could manage.


#13

Like @Darksakul has tried to explain to you, your much better off just reading what is written on displaylag.com/what-is-input-lag-the-breakdown/


#14

**
OH MY FUCKING GOD.

OH MY FUCKING FUCK FARTS.**

This worked. Are you fucking kidding me. This actually worked. Glory God Heaven on Earth Jesus Mary Joseph this fucking worked.

I want to kiss you. I love you. I truly love you.

I can’t believe this worked.

I cannot fucking believe this worked.

This is not helpful, no offense.

I’m not downgrading to a BenQ 24" from a 55" TV.

I still don’t have a solution for my Bravia’s. The Xbox 360 works great on those via VGA, but for other consoles there’s nothing I can do to get them into “PC Mode”. But, thanks to the dude above, my 55" is fine, and I’m jumping for joy right now. Mayyyyyyybe I’ll replace one of the Bravia’s with a BenQ, but I’d be going from 32" to 24" and probably a worse picture for Movies/TV :confused:


#15

It’s not a downgarde, it’s got less lag but it’s smaller. You can’t have it both ways with what you have. You gotta dig deep to find the big TV with sub 1 frame and even then it’s not as low latency as the BenQ.


#16

Going from 55" to 24" is an enormous downgrade, and actually I can and now do have it both ways with this TV. It took a while but someone finally offered a simple solution that works. Can’t speak for other 55" TV’s

but my Samsung 2013 ‘LED’ is solid now, can’t wait for SFV, I’m ready now bitches.

*Correction this is a 60".


#17

Do you have numbers or are you one of those “feels fine” guys?


#18

A frame of lag would be something like 15ms, if my math is right. 1 millisecond = 1,000th of a second, so 10 would be 1/100th, 20 would be 1/50th, and you’d feel that because 1/60th is a frame, so considering my lag is under a frame, then it’s something like <15ms.

I don’t need charts and graphs, no. I go into my room which has an old CRT with a Genesis and NES console. I play that. There’s “no” lag. I compare that to my PC, which I run emulators on of the same systems and games, “no” lag. I compare that to my huge ass TV in the living room, once I’ve got the “no lag” feel I’m good, you can try to shit me, this is good to go.

Same if I hook my PC up to the TV, same settings, I move the mouse around no lag, you would freaking know if a mouse lagged.

Accoring to that link my TV ranks “excellent”. Well that tells me exactly jack shit, no numbers there.

The “feels fine” crowd are idiots who can’t tell 30 from 60 FPS and think 30 is “cinematic” or something and “better”. Do not put me in that group. I’m an expert and would notice frames. It was something annoying about going from Xbox 360 to PS3 for SFIV, having to deal with an added frame of lag.


#19

Most likely your TV is ALOT more laggy then you even know, most Bravia tvs are really shit for gaming (try and find the model nr and look it up).

Never talked about downgrading anything the website also has a database of all the 55inch tv’s that are good to play on with minimal lag, or any other size you wish to use. LINK


#20

Samsung.

But the Bravia’s are fine via VGA on 360.

HDMI, via PS3 or 360 or PS4, forget about it, noticeable “terrible” lag, because you can’t force off features. Only a PC input on those sets does it.

It would have to be > or = to 15MS to feel anything in a 60FPS game.

The “lag” on my Bravia’s compared to say, this PC monitor right here, is identical, IE not perceptible so long as they are in PC mode. And using emulators, the input is the same as running the actual hardware on CRT, which I do. Whether that’s technically true or not is irrelevant, maybe if I did 20 cans of red bull and 40 lines of coke I’d be able to feel a difference.

That said I have not tested this in a long time. It wouldn’t surprise me if CRT is a touch quicker for 360. According to some on this board, as I type on this 1080P PC monitor hooked in via VGA there should be lag. I can assure you this is not the case, and if there was that would be completely unacceptable. Same with “image degredation”. Beyond 1080P perhaps that’s true. Anyways I don’t want to open any more worm cans. I have my solutions, I’m set, if I can’t game my PS4 on the Bravia’s so be it, the 360’s are on those TV’s anyway not the PS4, PS4 is on the 60" Samsung there is “no” lag I’m good to go thanks for the help.