What’s up guys I am in the market for a new tv. I narrowed it down to Samsung 56" DLP tv and the new Sony LCOS 60" KDSR-60XBR1 . Now i’ve never owened hdtv before so this is my first time. I read alot about these tvs and their respective technologies aparently DLP has a delay when gaming and lcos isn’t supposed to. I went and trie the Samsung DLP tv it looked beautiful but the delay was unbearable made playing MvC2 impossible. The Sony did a little better with just slight lag not really noticeable. Still lag sucks, when spending 4 grand i shouldn’t have any crap ass problems like that. This being said what options do i have as a gamer wanting 50+ size tv good for gaming in 720, 1040 resolution? any thoughts
Yea, a CRT is still going to give the best display, and everything but Guilty Gear is low resolution. Actually the backgrounds are mostly 3D high res now…but the sprites are going to look like even more ass.
Honestly?? It really doesn’t matter! A crt is widely considered the best, but thats only do to its ability to display true blacks and greys, but other than that its no difference. LCD, RPTV (Crt), DLP’s will all display 2d just fine. At the most, a 2D is ran @ 480i (not HDTV) or 480p (Xbox), but the true HDTV resolutions (720p / 1080i / 1080p) I have seen or know of a 2d thats takes advantage of this.
Now myself, I use a SONY KP-46WT520 (46 inch / RPTV CRT) and have never experienced lag in anything I play.
CRT not only has a much better black level than DLP, LCD, etc, but it can display 480i/480p and 1080i resolutions. All other technologies including plasma have a “native” resolution. HD Plasma, DLP, etc, run at 720p and the ED’s run at 480p. This means that any gaming system, television signal, etc, that is broadcast at a lower resolution than 720p, will be “upconverted” to high def, which causes a lot of jaggies, distortion, and other nastiness.
You also have to replace the bulb in them about every 3-5 years at probably $250-$400 a pop.
The CRT on the other hand will display the lower res game systems, television, etc at 480 as well as the HD XBOX 360 and future next gen systems at 1080 and won’t try to upconvert signals to a higher resolution. BUT, they suffer from burn in, so if you are playing a lot of fighting games, most likely the health meters and other static images during gameplay will begin to burn into your screen and cause a white ghosting image.
Honestly, if you want a big tv for gaming, you should consider an LCD projector. You can pay a lot less than $4,000 and get a really nice looking one, and if you pay $4,000, you will probably never goto a movie theater again. I think you will have problems playing gun type games like Time Crisis, I don’t know if thats important to you or not. You can also try DLP which will not require a darker room for a good picture. Most all of the projectors have better upscalers than the HDTV’s.
It would be hard for me to pick between your two choices, because to me, anything other than CRT looks really bad for the games I play. Also, I’m not so sure that gun games would be compatable with those, either, as another poster has mentioned.
My opinion is that CRT is the best for fighting games, and if you want something really big and have a dark room for it, go the projector route.
CRTs can have delay in consumer TVs, espcially if the TV uses things like black expansion, which loses colors. You can turn these off if you aquire the service manual from the manufacturer, or download it from the internet if possible. HDTVs for gaming only really matters if you are PC gaming or if you are into HD consoles like the 360. For 2D fighting games I would consider just bearing with the delay or use a smaller CRT that lacks all of the extra processing like a computer monitor or an arcade monitor. I’ve not seen LCOS in action, but it sounds nice. As for LCD, I think that it’s the most cost efficient method for HD gaming, but the response times are just starting to show a true 60Hz now despite all of the claims of 4ms responses. It should look good for most people, but I would be more concerned about the aspect ratio. VF5, DOA3/4, are the only games I know of that are truely meant to be played in 16:9.
I think that after this you will only have more questions than answers.
There are DLP’s, LCD’s that run at 720p and 1080i as well. With the bulb, any one who shells out 1500+ dollars and doesn’t get a warranty that covers this replacement is foolish. The light gun issue is true, but there are light guns out now that do work on lcd’s, dlp’s and the such. Burn in is not the issue it once was, but if you leave the image on the screen for a long time (6 - 10 hours straight) you are asking for it. Ever seen a burned in image on a computer monitor?
Lastly, a good place for your questions and answers would be Avsforum.com (Http://www.avsforum.com). Hardcore audio and video guys there and can answer all your questions with facts and useful info.
Good Luck, I know this is a hard process, I just got done doing this 4 months ago.
This is a good link with a lot of information Fubar. One thing though, they are wrong about CRT HDTV’s converting a 480i signal to 480p, thus causing lag. Anything fed through a standard composite video cable or S-Video will still be interlaced.
CRT HDTV’s can display 480i/480p and 1080i and I guess there are some either out or being developed that display 1080p.
Also, they don’t upconvert anything to progressive scan, they just display progressive scan sources. For example, if you plug a progressive scan DVD player into the component inputs, but don’t have the player set to progressive scan, it will still be interlaced. The scaling is all done by the original source, dvd, xbox, etc.
The new Sonys that I’ve seen have had lag. Very slight, but enough to notice it right away. It’s because there is still processing going on. Not in the form of line doubling, but in the form of black expansion, or any other average digital processing trick that you can think of. Calibrating the TV, and taking out what ever post input processing we could find in the service menu, took alot of delay out, but it still lagged despite our best efforts.
I would be very adamant about testing a game system on a TV before I’d buy if I were you. Just too many things that can go wrong. I hope you’d take my advice and try before you buy, or at least get a gamer’s review on some TVs.
480p capable CRT HDTVs have ALWAYS had a line-doubler of some sort to display 480i images in 480p (or sometimes, 960i). Yes, if you use a standard Composite or S-Video cable, you’ll be sending an interlaced signal to the TV but the TV will still upscale that image to the 480p resolution that the TV is capable of displaying. If you look at any advertisement for a DLP, Plasma, or LCD display, you’ll see that it also “supports” 480i.
When you look at an advertisement for a CRT HDTV that says “Supports 480i/480p/1080i” or something along those lines, what it means is that it can accept all of those inputs and show them on the TV. It doesn’t mean that the TV actually has three native resolutions–it only has two (or sometimes one!). However, if they published this in HDTV advertisements it would confuse a lot of people who would think they suddenly couldn’t watch Standard Definition material anymore if they bought an HDTV.
Your last paragraph is completely wrong. If you turn off progressive scan on a progressive scan DVD player, it will send the signal as interlaced to a CRT HDTV, but all CRT HDTV’s have built-in deinterlacers anyway so it’s just a matter of which hardware you want doing the deinterlacing for you. If it’s a cheap DVD Player, the TV might do a better job, but in my experience generally the DVD player does a better job.
Why is this? Simply because it is a lot more expensive to make an HDTV that can do different scan rates. It’s much, much cheaper to make an HDTV that supports two (or one!) scan rate, then pitch in a video scaler to convert the image to whatever format the HDTV can natively support.
There are a few (expensive and rare) special monitors that can support 480i and 480p as native resolutions. I believe they are made by a company called Monivision and have sometimes been rebranded and sold under different names, but never as consumer models.
I hope this is cleared up for you now as it’s not very productive to spread misinformation when somebody is about to make such an important purchase.
You’re right that other digital processing can introduce a delay, but none of those delays is as great as line doubling or upscaling. The reason your set still lagged even after calibration is because your HDTV still has to upscale the 480i image.
Basically, the only way to play lag-free 480i games is to play them on a Standard Definition TV. If you’re really set on having everything on one display, you can research the special Monivision monitor or you can invest in a high-quality video game scaler such as an XRGB-2+ (available from import sites such as NCSX.com).
The LD-100 from Faroudja only lags by one cycle at the most, but this is a high-quality analog line doubler that is out make. Using this with a VGA monitor was a better looking solution than the XRGB-2+, except that if you want an easier time with cabling the latter was better. I don’t know how much scaling could be left, but we will try to source it.
For newer systems, transcoders are the best solution. So long as you are using progressive scan and a VGA monitor (great for XBox users.) 480i lag free is best done on CRT. I’ve not seen a better way to do this. I wonder if there are any HD LCD monitors that truely have as fast a response time as a VP191 or even the VP930 from ViewSonic, but in larger format. It’s a lot to think about.