Best/worst matchups?

you know, I’m not even ashamed anymore that I make pretty much every topic in this forum. I take pride in it.

Anyway, the title says it all. Opinions?

I think Elena’s matchups are pretty interesting. She rules the grapplers and damage dealers but has a tough time with rushdown characters, though she is very quick and has semi-decent defense.

my biggest heart break is against chun li she has better pokes hp and, for chun li it’s easier to verify into super, and sniff :crybaby: her kara throw is better.
so far all i can hope for is to once and a while time elena’s b-hk so it beats out her hp, which is hard. you can bait a then down parry SAII, this is good because even if the chun player goes into SAII at close range you will beat her out. on the other hand this is hard because chun’s is fast and can be hard to see, esp if it’s like 1 in the morning and you have been playing for 2 or 3 hours.

also i need help dealing with necro’s dive twirling kick in the corner

this is just a completely wild bullshit guess, because I haven’t really played any Necros, but would sliding go under it?

It would if you anticipated, but it’s way too slow to react to a drill kick with a slide. I instead suggest blocking the first hit and parrying the second, then busting your fastest combo since necro cheaply lands almost right after the second hit (c.short super or s.strong into a juggle).

I think the necro matchup is in elena’s favor; her roundhouse and back roundhouse outprioritize a lot of his shit, though you have to be careful when he has meter because he’ll wait for you to whiff. Make him guess with electric snake and punish with brave dance, use chains and two-hit normals a lot to keep his single parries meaningless and don’t get too impatient since he can anti-air with that ultra-cheap back fierce crap.

The beauty of it all is that she doesn’t have really bad matchups outside of the top-tiers, does decently enough against makoto and not too bad against ken.

Kinda loses to urien, though, because he can keep you out of the air and beat your ground normals… and juggle you easily. My solution is to keep the pressure on after knocking him down by using lots of meaties (to discourage him from doing wakeup headbutts) and EX mallet smash to stay in his face (so he doesn’t space you out with normals or push you into a corner).

i agree the only thing about necro i fear is the drill in the corner going into mixup. what your saying is to block the first hit and since it croses me up i would press forward to block and then realease so i can press forward again but this time to parry the second hit. then punish is that what you mean

I think she gets smoked by ken. just mho

I dunno, I don’t fear him that much either, myself. It’s really a matter of staying away from the c.MKs, and she has all the right tools for that(command overheads with crazy range and b.HK). The only thing I fear from shotos really is projectile cheese, but if you’re playing right you’re too close to need to worry about that.

There’s such thing as projectile cheese in 3rd strike?

…eh. You hit the nail on the fact that you need to stay away from the c.MK. The problem is, you can’t. (against a solid Ken)The answers you listed are very easy for Ken to get around.

Command overheads are high risk/low reward and is medium risk/low reward.

Ken can easily input random forward parries fairlys safely against Elena or jab srk x2 on reaction. Take those moves away, and we’re back to square one…

Any wonder why Combofiend stopped using her against us?

hahaha, damned Ken army :rofl:

a question though(I don’t play competetively, so I don’t see the reasons you’re listing in action): to my understanding, Elena’s main strengths are in her mixup game. Does parry guesswork really work that effectively on her?

Any wonder why Combofiend stopped using her against us?[/quote]

Did that really happen?

I know that he has one of the sickest Elena’s around, but did he have a lot of trouble against the higher level Kens?

paul lee is right (of course:mad:). the elena vs ken match is completly different depending on if your fighting a good ken or a bad ken. against a bad ken the correct strategy is to put on a spin scythe combo performance. but when fighting a good ken elena has to be on high alert cause the threat of a good ken sticking out or and going into super on reaction is a big threat. you elena has to be patient and careful then go for a down parry to super, but you can’t rely just on that becuase a good ken player with also stick out well timed hk (which hurt like hell) when he/she but most likely he sees you waiting or even baiting a wild as far as command overheads go it’s very unsafe to stick elena’s overheads cause a well timed ken will pown you. so it’s best to play a cautious footsie game. unless you forgot what kens SAIII looks like in which case go ahead and keep using the overheads

It’s all about risk vs. reward.

Yes Elena has good mixup-- but the damage she inflicts from it is fairly minimal. With Ken, at footsie range, I can safely input random forward parries or low moves, or nothing at all. If I guess wrong… she get’s 10 dmg? The risk/vs reward is totally in Ken’s favor. Even without meter, I get cr.forward, jab srk, jab srk (anywhere after a parry).

A Ken with solid defense won’t lose to Elena’s mixup. She MUST connect super. Unfortunately, it’s very difficult for Elena to do against him.

I’d say that when she has meter, all bets are off with a random high parry. I’m not sure if you’re considered in the air for the first frames of jab srk, but baiting is another thing to consider, especially if the ken does low forwards before dragon punches. That and she can make use of as little as one EX meter from mid-range. Doesn’t exactly push things in elena’s favor all of a sudden, since it’ll always be in ken’s favor, but I’m confident that the matchup isn’t hopelessly difficult.

When Elena gets her meter, I look to counter punch her, ie punish whiffed moves. I’ll still input random high parry, but I won’t immediately punish (looking for the super).

The match is in Ken’s favor but you’re right it’s closer to 6-4, not hopeless.

are there any matches that are hopeless for Elena?

^^^Chun gets me with no vasaline

But then again, I’m no expert at this shit.

yea fighting chun li is like fighting your older cousin if he was a fast chinese martial arts master and you had no arms and his legs where faster

It’s true, she’s better than elena in every way that matters. There’s lots of annoying stuff like her short crouch (like makoto)–it takes longer for brave dance to get to her so she can often block… and if she parries and does a low attack, the super will just sail right over her. What I do is choose spinning beat and pray for a good opportunity and parry her low forward, then do low short super for guaranteed damage. Other than that, her ground normals are better than all of elena’s, so don’t try to beat her at her own game.

So the,Brave dance is out the question against Chun?

If you can’t beat Chump on the ground, whats is the best way to fight her.