Best/Worst Specials?


#1

Assuming perfect RC’ing, for SRK-type moves i would count charge D, U specials like flash kick as "DP-types’. So who has the best ones? Who’s got the worst?

Best through worst fireball-type specials?

i’m leaning towards Guile’s SB being the best projectile.
Maybe Rugal’s ground spark or Morrigan’s Air FB (her ground FB seems good though) for the opposite end?

Best/worst dragon punch-type specials?

Best seem likely to be Ken’s, Sagat’s. Lots of hits, great range on the hitbox, rarely trade.
Rugal’s kick anti-air is awful imo, goes almost straight up, no horizontal range.


#2

rocks flying punch can be good or bad, the jab and strong verions of it are fast and when blocked still allow you to recover without fear of punishment most of the time. but the fierce version does two hits, which when blocked, leaves rock open to all kinds of nasty things.

oh and rocks rising tackle is a pretty sweet move


#3

worst fireball is haohmarus by 483920543 miles. that’s like a contender for worst fireball in the whole genre
best fireball is guile’s if you don’t count evil ryu. regular ryu’s is 2nd best

worst dp-type move? keeping RCs in account its probably guile’s flash kick as it requires a charge and is airblock-able
best? sagat’s has the hugest hitbox, lots of damage, gives sagat lots of meter, good set up afterwards, and is safe to JD if done deep enough


#4

no love for Dan’s occasionally invulnerable dp, or kyosuke flash kick or electricity thing? i guess if you keep rc’s in mind then guiles flash kick still takes the shit cake


#5

i like cannon spike alot it just feels rite


#6

Worst -> Best Projectiles:
Haomaru -> Iori -> Terry -> Dan -> Mai -> Morrigan -> Ryo -> Rugal -> Athena -> Geese/Rock Reppuken -> King -> Dhalsim -> Ken -> Akuma -> Ryu -> Sagat -> Chun -> Joe -> Todo -> Kyosuke -> Guile

I’m a bit mixed about joe’s fireballs. They take up huge space, and are a bit difficult to get around but the recovery gets super bad as you switch to stronger hurricanes. 23 startup on the fierce version is horrific.

I think Chun’s fireball is extremely underrated cuz the way her hitbox looks when she’s throwing it makes it very awkward to get around for some reason. Like it comes out fast and has long reach on starting up with a good speed to control space.

DP’s w/ RC’s:
Worst -> Best

Flash Kick -> Kim -> Haomaru -> Sakura -> Rising Tackle -> Headbutt -> Vertical Blanka ball -> Vega -> Kyo -> Iori -> Joe-> Dan -> Ryo -> Ryu -> Morrigan -> Cammy -> Akuma -> Ken -> Sagat

I have no clue where to put Rugal, Athena and Yun. I used to think Dan’s DP was bad but he has quite a few invincibility frames with a 5 frame startup.

edited in the projectiles i forgot. It’s pretty poorly done as I’m in a bit of a rush.


#7

so you forgot: sagat, king, mai, morrigan, terry, TODO, athena… i think this is why they were asking best vs worse


#8

I’m too lazy to look up all the frame data >_<.

Sagat: His high cannon comes out in 10 frames while his ground cannon comes out in 12. It’s hard to really rate Sagat’s projectiles because they come out super quick and travel super quick. This is good for pressure and surprise damage but it controls space poorly unlike sonic boom. (-11/-12/-13 & -12/-13/-14)

King: Comes out in 13 frames and controls space fairly well. I’d say about as good as a shoto fireball. Leaves her at a pretty bad frame disadvantage of -12/-13/-14.

Mai: Her fireball comes out in 14 frames and leaves her at -15. In general, not very good unless you have a ton of space and don’t have RC’s that can punish.

Terry: Horrible, horrible fireball. 16 frame startup that leaves him at -14/-15/-16. Absolutely worthless for anything other than full screen pressure with the slowest moving power wave.

Morrigan: Ground fireball comes out in 18 frames meaning it’s pretty crappy. Worst then Dan and Dhalsim’s and leaves her at -4 which is decent. In general, not to be used unless full screen.

Todo would probably fall just behind kyosuke’s. It’s got a bit more recovery but it has more uses cause it’s harder to get around.

Athena: 15/16/17 frame startup that leaves her at -9/-8/-7 on hit and block. Dhalsim level fireball pretty much.


#9

there are many good specials if done at the right time…

  • sak huricane kick all three versions at the right distance
  • bison sicssor kick cheapest rc in the game
  • blanka electricity cheapest rc in the game

-I think joe’s tornado is the best projectile in the game if the right version is used at the right distance

-without the rc I think maki’s KKK spin is nice. Its just what the doctor ordered and the damage taken is ok in my opinion.

the worst special is …

sak’s double fist hop… thats just not useful and is very laggy.


#10

there’s a lot more to a projectile (and every other move in the game) than its frame data

how big the projectile is (to get around it)

where it starts in relation to the character throwing it; ones that start close to the character like iori’s and rugals are both easier to follow after and safer to midrange rolls (since the fireball took longer to get there, the thrower has had more time to recover), while ones that start far away from the thrower (shotos, sagat) are harder to react to

the varying speeds of the projectile

comboability

knockdown properties

that said, rugal probably has the best “ground fireball”, followed by iori. todo probably has the 2nd best projectile in the entire game, even given its short range (i take back what i said earlier about ryu, forgot about todo). kyosuke’s fireball is really good against p and kgroove, but its too easy to roll on reaction against it in other grooves


#11

i have 2 questions

why is rugal’s ground fireball being the best? do u mean only good on meaty situations, cuz if u throw it while ppl standing it seems like it comes out so slow

and u said ryu’s fireball is 2nd best projectile…whats the difference between his and akuma or ken’s


#12

without rcs, i think rocks lp/mp elbow dash is the best special in the game


#13

Surprise Rose by far

EDIT:
on a more serious note, I think Akuma’s LK Hurricane is way up there.
How often do you see that whiffed and NOT punished? It’s pretty fast, so when someone doesn’t abuse it, it becomes pretty ‘safe’. First hit is uncrouchable, which is nice after lowjump MK crossup. DP juggles after for damage and good positioning. Combos into lv2 C-groove combos and CC. Builds meter while keeping you close to opponent after knockdown. Situationally good for hopping over knocked down opponent, which IMO makes waking up with something like reversal super/dp’s (depending on timing).

As for projectiles, I’d put Geese’s up there not because of the FB itself, but the fact you can cancel into it off of c.HK and f+HP.


#14

i think 'toof means is that the fireball “spawns” further back in relation to rugal’s sprite. Because the fireball is created so far back, it is easy to run after because you start your run closer to the fireball.

this is more of an explanation why geese is good and not why the fireball itself is good. besides c.hk > lp/mp fireball at max range has a big gap for bison torpedo/blanka ball/rc’s/fast rolls/supers. you basically lose the ability to abuse it against most top characters.

Ryu’s is faster/does a little more dmg. Akuma’s is pretty good because it knocks down close range and he also has the red fireball, which is pretty good except for startup but is slower than ryu’s. ken’s fireball is slow/does little dmg


#15

I’d say Mai’s flame pillar (charge d, u+kick) is probably the worst. Really bad range, and if it misses, you’re asking for a super in the face.

Her fireballs is pretty average. Fierce fan is one of the fastest moving projectiles in the game, and jab fan is one of the slowest so she has a large range of speeds that she can utilize. Of course, the recovery for each is pretty crappy.

I think it’s still a testament to the fireball. Cancelling properties are part of how good a move is. It counts towards the situations you can use the fireball in. But yes, bison can torpedo thru it if they have a charge.


#16

How is being able to cancel into the fireball off of a NORMAL a testament to the fireball? If anything, its about the normal. Thats like saying jaiken is good (outside of combos) because you can cancel it off of f.hp and c.hk.


#17

It’s a testament to the combination of the normal and the fireball if you ask me. In some situations the fireball can push the the opponent further back if your blocked normal didn’t give you the desired positioning. It gives you positioning options as well as cancels the recovery time on your normal if it’s slow. Part of how good a fireball is, is the situations you can use it in. Being able to use it after a normal is one such situation. Common sense if you ask me.


#18

i agree with most of this list with a few exceptions. Why rate Morrigans DP so high? It trades and will straight-up lose to lots of air attacks, usually roundhouses. It still very much has uses, but i have a hard time saying that it’s better than Ryu’s or Ryo’s, even Iori’s or Kyo’s for that matter, at least those trade less often.

And for the record i think Rugal’s dp is one of the worst there is.


#19

Here’s my take for projectile supers. I seperated them between those that progress a horizontal distance (I.E Shinkuu hadoken), and those that remain stationary (sonic hurricane).

Horizontally moving projectile supers.
Good
Sagat - can Anti-air. Huge damage. Easy to combo into. Lvl 2 cancel follow ups are good. Fast.
Todo - can anti air. Easy to combo into after throw.
Ryu - pretty much like Sagat-lite. Not as good for anti-air, not as much damage(?) I believe.
Mai - extremely fast. Easy to combo into.

Middle
Akuma - like ryu-lite. I think startup isn’t as good, nor is damage and the super motion requires a bit more inputs.
Morrigan - anti-air. a bit too slow for combos (?)
Athena - S-groove spam is the only reason I put this here.
Nakoruru - Very fast, but only comboable thru crouching roundhouse?
Sakura - comboable, not that much damage or distance.
Yuri - Fast but is this comboable(?)
Ryo - same as Yuri.

Bad
Chang - too slow. Good damage but I’ve only seen it done in a-groove customs and it was inconsistent.
Kyosuke - very slow. Distance garbage
Iori - I’ve only seen people use this in A-groove customs. It’s just too slow for any other purpose.
Dan - crappy distance. doesn’t always hit fully

Stationary projectile supers are those like Chun, Dhalsim, Guile, Benimaru, Joe, Terry, Rock and Geese. Terry’s lvl 3 power geyser is more like 3 stationary projectiles in a sense. Rock and Geese’s raging storm is like a vertical projectile. They’re all pretty decent and there isn’t any that is outright bad. Guile’s stands out as probably the best due to its range and suction properties as well as comboability. The only thing crappy about it is that it does crappy damage when used as anti air (which u shouldn’t be using it for anyways).


#20

how bout changs projectile lol? so important for him to control space. pretty decent hitbox too (as in hard to get around).i think he should be up there.

i also think rolentos knife is pretty good too for the same reason.