Better Hitbox on cr.HP?!?

vega

#1

Who here ever uses Vega’s cr.HP as an anti-air?! We all know that it sucks close up and mediocre in range…

Back in vanilla, it was pretty much shit vs any character. The only time I would use it is to zone Zangief with his jumps. Other then that, it was more or less useless.

Recently, I’ve been re-integrating it into my gameplay and have been quite successful in landing it against all of the cast. Of course, you’re supposed to land it on far jump-ins, but I find it much more better then it was back in vanilla.


#2

Can’t say Ive tried it as an anti-air (or really at all) in a long long time, aside from pissing off gief and now thawk.
I’ll give it a whirl tho


#3

I never used in vanilla, so i cant compare, but i have discovered and been using it in super, yes… i have more succes with it then s.rh at specific ranges.


#4

That thing was pretty good in Vanilla at stuffing dumbass noob Cammy’s who used full screen hooligan on Claw when he was crouching.

Obviously a broken move and better than Ryu’s c.forward.

/end troll


#5

I guess this is the most appropriate thread to post this is…

I was doing random playing with a continuously jumping Ryu and at some levels, c.HP did NOT connect, even though it seemed like it should have… just went right through continuous neutral jumping…

Anyone else try this or test it out?


#6

i think c. fp still sucks. Only matchup where it’s a sensible AA that won’t lose is against Abel. St. RH also sucks as an AA. C. Fierce is best as a heavy link combo and st. RH is your ideal focus breaker. I find both of those moves are better at preemptively stuffing jump outs than as AA’s because their hitboxes are not mean to function as AA’s. As it stands no matter how you space yourself Vega simply isn’t protecting himself like Guile and Sakura do when they do c. fierec. Unless you are using your other anti- and air-to-airs in conjuction with something like c. fierce it’ll never be good becuase it is inherently a bad anti-air. Anything like Ryu’s j. mk is guaranteed to trade with or beat c. fp outright because the kick always reaches Vega’s head and the only way Vega can hit them cleanly is to stab them in the ass, but because of that spacing Vega is always getting kicked / punched in the head. Only Abel who has jump ins that only go straight out and a mediocre j. mk has no way of getting around it. If you predict certain jump ins c. fierce might seem useful but if you ever want to anti-air people ST, Air grab and air-to-airs are way better at it.

One good thing about c. fierce is to predict a cross up. Dash under it, and stab them in the back with the c. fierec cause it’s so fast. It’s better than using st. RH for that purpose becuase yuo get all the damage in one hit. Otherwise, stuff like meaty air-to-airs to beat an air throw that you anticipate is much better dealt with using any combination of cosmic heel, either ultra, ST, or EX FBA.

IMO C. fierce is only better than Vega’s garbage up close moves. It’s pretty bad, there’s areason you hardly ever see it used.


#7

idk. i use it against dive happy rufus and cammy. it punishes thier insta air kicks so bad. there is a reason why it has a 5 frame startup. its supposed to stop dive kick spamming.


#8

^really?
Hmm, Ive got some testing to do. If what you say is true, OS throw tech with c.hp might just be the most awesome thing ever in the rufus matchup.


#9

I found out today that s.RH is actually a reliable AA against Sakura’s jump ins.


#10

That’s a good idea pedo but you will still get screwed if he decides to jump over you and falcon kick. you’re still 4 frames behind since a blocked low dive kick is +7 and jump take off is 3. FAlcon kick start up is 11 but if he starts up over your head i don’t think a c. fierce’s hitbox will be able to touch him. in that cas eyou are probably better off using st. rh cause it’s 4 frame start up and way better hitbox.

EDIT: or scarlet terror which will take care of any sort of dive kick after a blocked dive kick since +7 still won’t cover his ass against a 4 frame start up considering another dive kick would be 3 frame take off + 11 frame start up = 14 frames meaning 14-7=7 frames you have to defend which leaves a 2 frame window for c. fp, 3 frame for st. hk and i think the reversal window is like 5 frames now or something? so big window to reversal ST and i mean i’m pretty sure if he were to neutral jump he might be able to beat you if he does his neutral jump move as soon as possible but any dive kick is beaten or lands behind you and you’re probably safe.

So if you think he’s gonna dive kick you should probably just ST. More damage, knockdown, less likely to lose than c. fp, easier to hit him with since it’s hitbox is so much bigger. c. FP has only 6 frames less recovery so you’re still probably less likely to get screwed doing ST because c. FP also doesn’t move you out of the way if he jumps over you, or beat his neutral jump since he’ll probably be out of the way. c. FP is also -11 on block which is worse than ST but you have the benefit of not being as likely to be punished because of the distance created. Rufus can reversal EX Galactic and reversal U2 that so it still isn’t safe. ST all the way, c. FP has hardly any redeeming qualities. in terms of preventing people from jumping out it’s better than HK ST but c. fp is still worse than st. HK when it comes to that. IMO c. fp is strictly relegated to an even more situational anti-air than everything else vega has and as a good combo finisher from st. lk, c. mk and cl. fp from certain distances that st. hk won’t get both hits on. Although st. HK will actually hit most crouchers unlike c. fp even though it forces stand.


#11

Dash back and use it as AA. I managed to hit a jump-happy Ryu 3 times in a row with it in ranked yesterday…he stopped jumping after that!
The fight got uploaded as a replay, so it’s out there…


#12

go look at the hitbox data for c.hp… even the claw is diagonally up the part which does damage is a horizontal box hence hwy it’s probably an okay anti air for far jump ins.


#13

A note about stopping diving happy people with Rufus is that you can even use down light kicks to stop him if he does his dives extremely low. If you’re not charging down and can’t do a ST like Joz is saying then stand Light kick seems to be the best anti Rufus dives for me. The recovery is fast enough to allow Claw to block after the kick ends. Plus a early light kick will for the very least trade hits.


#14

I dont want trades. if i want a trade i would rather 110 points than 30. The problem with using ST is if they block you eat something big because its easy to punish. cr.hp is punishible, but its harder to punish. the only problem is if they start doing high dive kicks. Its a trade off. you take 110 damage at the risk of him doing a high dive kick. you use st.lk for the saftey of punishing low/high light kicks. or you use ST at the cost of potential loss 1/4 health for a knock down, and wake up pressure. I dont like st.lk options, although its safer the reward isnt that great, and doesnt create fear or hesitation. Something vega needs.


#15

To be clear… LK will rarely trade and mostly wins out right if you use it to stop dive happy Rufus. If you manage to kick him high enough you’ll have the advantage of making him guess a bad messiah kick by abusing your frame advantage while hes still flipping in the air. And ST is indeed a gamble for high/low dives but its mostly understood as a very good gamble. Hell EX FBA can do wonders sometimes if you’re cornered.

Infact… Why would Rufus have a chance to block a well timed ST when hes diving anyway… Perhaps you’re doing your STs way too late.


#16

you dont get my trade thing. if it trade i would rather the 110 than 30. if that is the case for you using st.lk why not use st.hk, or st.mp? frame advantage is nice, but not useful enough in mind games. i dont make a big deal about health, but i know my opponents do, and i abuse that knowledge. people write of 30 points, but start worrying when they lose 70 points or more.

edit: i use lk.st, because if he blocked instead of doing another insta air kick he better be on que to punish my shit. we’re talking about dive kick happy rufus pressure, not punishing the first dive kick


#17

But the chances of trading is so miniscule…Light kick has a higher oriented hitbox but doesn’t stretch out as far as cr. FP. At dive happy range its sucess rate is higher than cr. FP. cr. FP you risk missing because Rufus jumped a pixel too high or something and you can’t block… but LK missing you can still block because unless your reaction is retardedly slow, Rufus shouldn’t be able to do dive kick quick enough.

I rarely see Rufus players panic about losing 100 hp against Claw. They know Claw is still at disadvantage at close.

A thought occured… Perhaps you’re saying is better to risk a cr. Fierce punch because the rewards outweigh the risks opposed to being uber safe with LK? I would respect that view.

ps. I use lk.ST usually as well… Mainly because I can follow up with another ST hahaha.


#18

with dive kick pressure strings yes the risk of cr.hp is better than the safety of st.lk. but it comes down to personal prefrence. if you land cr.hp no only do you land 110 points of damage, you push him away, making him have to decide wheter or not to throw an EX Messiah to close that gap, or try and get in on you again. the saftey of st.lk is nice, but its to safe to really push him away.


#19

LK pushes just fine IMO. You can back dash to create more space and fake a leg check rather than using a MK or CH. When cornered and you hit Rufus high enough with LK you can even fake a wall jump. Its not all about the damage. Its the options that can come after it that I want. You like damage, I like options haha. I mean think about it… The follow ups that can follow (whoa strange language use) can lead to more damage than your 110 at a considerably risk free environment.


#20

but it pushes people away. thats what i want. follow ups and mix ups are good, but not enough spacing is way more important. i want to push him away. so i dont have to walk back. it gives me the space i need with out having to push back. thats is why i think cr.hp, or maybe st.hk is the superior choice.