BFL: The Team Deathbutton/Steroids/Bigman Thread


#1

I’ts about time to start our own thread, so I’ll be the first to do it.

I noticed that when we try to break down character specifics in the other threads, we always talk about them as a team. So why not have a thread where we can talk about all our bigmen:D

This thread is for strats,combos,tactics, and general help with the Big guys and how to effectively use them.

I’ll start with my biggest problem to date…anyone wanna help me crack Cable…we need an overall defining stratagy on how to not get shot:lol:

Peace
-D-


#2

Cable is tough. I think the key to being able to get to him lies in two things (both of which I don’t really do properly).

  1. Top notch wavedashing. A simple “double hop” is good enough for a lot of situations, and fairly easy to execute reliably. The problem (at least for me) comes in with tacking on normals and (command) throws. Any “bigman” without a run is gonna need this; Sent less so than anybody else, obviously, but his wavedash is good so it helps him too. This is the biggest thing holding me back from kicking Cable’s a$$, and I know it… :bluu: I guess I’ll look at Dasrik’s thread again and give it another crack. :sweat:

  2. Utilizing Hulk’s sj. (cancelled) fierce in order to navigate your way close. Hulk is able to stop on a dime at most any point sj-wise and start coming back down towards the ground in a way that a surprising amount of characters can’t do… and a lot of fliers/8-way airdashers probably take for granted.

Commando is a pain. Run into too much AA, and you lose anyway. But we already knew that… :stuck_out_tongue:

Tough assignment. Patience is critical.


#3

THCs from teams that include Juggy and Hulk are scary. I once got my sent assist (who had full life) caught in a THC from Cable, a glitched Juggy, and Hulk. I thought he was gonna make it until hulk came flying down. :wasted:

Uh. Nothing else to say but my story. :stuck_out_tongue:


#4

Basically what Buck Jones said. Most important thing is to be patient.

Cable tends to lead himself into the corner. Once he’s in the corner don’t let the S.O.B out.

Sentinal doesn’t pose a whole lot of trouble for the big guys. Its about a fair game.

Storm can pose quite a challenge, especially running away. I try to keep her on the ground as much as possible by using Gamma Quakes with Hulk, or Juggernaut Slashes (use wisely).

Magneto. I’ve never had too many problems from Mags, even really good ones (ie Mixup). I think one match I remember against Mixup I took out his Mags in about 5 secs with my Juggs. I think thats why he doesn’t use Mags against me anymore. You just have to play smart and out prioritize Mags. I don’t care to explain again. Check the Big guy threads.

Here’s a good corner combo with Hulk. launch (D+FP), lk, lp, lk, FP, FK, lk, lk, land, super jump, FP throw, FK, call colossus AAA, FK gamma charge, pause 1 sec, gamma crush hold toward corner. 100% on everyone including Sentinal. Throw can be tech or rolled. If throw tech’d, jump lp (for guard break), call colossus AAA, land, FK Gamma Charge, pause 1 sec, Gamma Charge hold toward corner. Still 100%:evil: Timing is REAL critical for this combo. I suggest start practice on Sentinal. Its almost impossible on small characters, but can be done, I swear.

I have more good combos but don’t care to explain.


#5

Don’t wanna let us in on all of your secrets??? :rolleyes:

I’m still trying to figure out how to deal with Cable, without resorting to using Sentinel on my teams. Sent is alot of fun, but I’d like to run other Teams (much like Ed’s). Sentinel is effectively my best way to deal with Cable. All my other Bigguys get raped…if I’m lucky.

Another Random thought…anyone try using Gief, and if so did you do it effectively??

Peace
-D-


#6

Yeah, I feel ya on that. I don’t think it’s a “hold out on my secrets” thing Dan; I think Ed’s been playing Big almost as long as I have, if not equally as long. A whole lot of what can be said has already been convered in the various threads, and that’s even with the two “board apocalypses” that lost everything, including some very good & insightful stuff. Between mostly us 3 and Deathfist, we’ve still pretty much covered all the bases. Especially for Hulk at least, and the bigman folders tend to be some of the better covered low-tier ones because of it. If people don’t know to view the various bigman subfolders from the beginning, then I can’t do it for them…

Sometimes it feels like I’ve said a lot of things 8 or 9 times… about once for everybody that truly cares… :lol:

But I’m still BFL ( :smiley: ) and I’m still here, so I’m happy to add to this thread…

I’m just gonna pay really close attention to both of you if/when we all make it to Charlotte. :cool:


Your best weapon in dealing with Cable is to have glitched Jugg on the side with 2 bars. Counter XX full mash HC does about 95%; all you gotta do is drum up that last 5. :p:evil: Makes the regular (blue) viper beam a real liability. and you can do it off a grenade too (not as easy, but you need to be able to, might be the only good chance you get. You know how it goes…).


One irritating thing about the Hulk is the way he superjumps instead of normal jumps after a wavedash. I guess I could truncate it with the j. fierce like I mentioned above, but I still am not totally comfortable with it. Feels weird, plus it interrupts my offense. Any ideas?


Oh yeah… since you borught up 'Gief… I’ve seen some effective Zangief/Cable/Sent before; the idea was to mech up and abuse the assist with two powerhouse teammates. Beef air combos hurt, and the air SPD works surprisingly well, one of his better tools. Still very challenging, though.

On the few occasions I’ve heard of Zangief, it’s always been with at least Sent around. Any offensive contribution you get from point Zangief is pretty much gravy. :slight_smile:


#7

I used BH/Gief/Cable against Blazinflo at the Tally Vs Jax tourny about a month ago. Of course this just casual play but it really pissed him off when my gief beat him twice in a row. I wish I could of saved those matches. The first match it came down to my gief vs his sent. I won, and he got pissed and had to play me again. Then next time it came down to my gief vs his cable, and whipped his ass again. Those were matches to go down into history.:lol:

Anyways, here’s a 100% corner combo with gief on an average character (ie Cable).

jump D+FP, land, lp, D+lp, sj.lk, sj.lk, sj.FK, land, D+lk, FK (one hit only), Final Atomic Buster. If timed right FAB is inescapable.

Here’s his bread-and-butter combo I use alot.

launch, sj.lk, sj. lk, (FP) Spinning Piledriver. It’s half-life easy.

If Gief had a little bit better mobility he would be one of my favorite characters.


#8

It’s not the greatest trap, but when you can get it going it’s good. Getting somebody pinned in the corner with a Juggernaut swinging wildly at them while Sentinel’s ground assist helps out does make people nervous and pissed off. Sure that person could retiliate but that involves punching your way through super-armor, or you could just do a fierce but you would probably take a hit from Juggernauts giant club arm. Meanwhile mini Sentinels are flying across the screen to back Juggy up. It seems like a good trap, but I’ve never gone up against anybody quite like Mixup or Combofiend I guess. If that person is in the mindset of blocking until they can find a way out, that’s a good time to come down right next to them with Juggy, use a grabbing fierce, then HeadCrush if you want a quick kill, or launch them into a combo if you wanna do it that way. Either way their life’s going down the drain fast.


#9

It sounds okay in theory, but people that perfecting guard canceling can easily escape it. Instead of jumping with FP try using QCB+lp. It block stuns a little better and has fast recovery.


#10

It’s a good “trap” when used properly. However, if you make it too predictable there are easy ways out of it. A well timed pushblock or super jump can escape it.

If you plan on doing this, I suggest being prepared to follow your opponent (especially if he tries to superjump out of the corner). Bigmen work great with opponents in the corner…but you have to keep him locked down.

I’m going with Ed on this one, the Earthquakes are definately the best way to go with this trap…you can mix it up of course, but once again…don’t get predictable

Damn I wish I coulda seen that…:lol:

Peace
-D-


#11

:lol: Yeah, things that sound good to me in theory like my mentioned trap usually come back and bite me in the ass during the match. I never really considered using earthquake as well during it. Just during the heat of the moment all I can think about is keeping them in the corner as long as possible, so I don’t branch off to anything else besides the fierce punch constantly. Also a little extra glitch for Juggernaut if no one knew about it that I stumbled upon. If you power-up Then make the power-up commands again on the control pad but only press one punch button instead of both, Juggernaut can take a swing at the opponent and still keep the power-up. You can do it over and over again, but it may not be worth the trouble of constantly going through the power-up directions. Also you can make his power-up stay for a couple of attacks if you power-up successfully two or three times in a row. When he says it he kinda interrupts his own self kinda like “Power-u…Power-up!!!” And he doesn’t leave the animation frame where he’s got his arms up towards the sky. It’s really hard to pull off, but if you can, you can either use an attack two or three times before the power-up is gone. Once again, it’s so hard to pull of it ain’t worth it. So there you have it!! All of my strategies for the offering that are too hard to do and a waste of time! Enjoy!! :lol:


#12

hey ed, that was ONE team tourney:lol:

seriously tho, you asked for it:evil:


#13

Well, thats the only time I recall I’d beat you in a tournament. The planets must have been in perfect alignment or something cause I was on fire that day.:smiley: I went 6-0 on your whole team. Thats something to brag about. My team still lost that tourny though.:bluu:


#14

Magneto holds forward one second too late…

Hulk on point…c.lk,c.mk, shoulder charge, rock super, jump up airgrab my stunned ass, air fk, land shoulder chargeXXrock super…

GROSS…


#15

What assists work well with Juggernaut from the top tiers and top tier assists?


#16

Just a few tidbits…

Good DHCs:

HSF ~> Gamma Wave (cancel before 1st drone set hits) connects.

HSF ~> Headcrush (cancel after 1st set but before 2nd) connects.

What makes both of these especially handy is the “frame-kill” property these have (a la DHC Proton Cannon); great way to get some damage in on a normal-jump grenading Cable + get a guy in safe. :cool:


Hulk “negative edge” s.jab XX command throw still r0cks


Hulk’s s. HK appears to be tailor-made for when you’ve dash-hopped over your opponent. Has some nice applications there.


Make sure your Jugg uses lots of j. jab, short & forward vs. Sent. Provides harrasment value + momentum for you.


Use Gamma Wave (DHCed if necessary) to stop hailstorms, and Headcrush (same) to stop HSF. You just need one rock on the way for Hulk, and Jugg is pretty much golden < 1/2 screen.


When rushing with Hulk, pepper in some j. (lp or lk), [pause], j. (hp or hk). You can create some high-low game this way with the various possible combinations… this helps keep your pattern from getting stale & predictable.


As always, empty jump-ins are critical for both Hulk & Jugg. It’s related to mixing things up & keeping them fresh, kinda like the point just above this one. Keep this in mind; otherwise, get launched a lot & die. :slight_smile:


Jugg’s c. lk XX Headcrush is extremely effective, but the normal is so quick that you often need to be able to execute based on the sound of it landing rather than the opponent’s hit animation (especially in really close). So get used to doing this.


If you mash after a belly flop, you get up off the ground a little quicker. Ever so slightly… but it might be enough to make the difference.

That’s about all I can think of offhand ( :smiley: ); will add more later. Hope somebody finds this useful.


#17

Heh, you got that combo memorized. I guess you’ve seen it enough.:lol:


#18

The combo above finally clicked in my head… :eek:

I’ll have to try that. Thanks!


Belly flops come out much more reliably if you cancel them from a normal… at least to me…


Don’t foget about “doubled-up” gamma charges… they can catch people sleeping sometimes. Makes your asist bait that much more dangerous to take (except for the obvious situations). Just be sure to be charging back for it, which is a good habit to get into anyway.


Jump back fierce with Jugg + drones/earthquakes can buy you some breathing room against rushdown Mag/Storm. Carefully, of course… mix it up; take the airthrow if you get it.


There is some variety in how far you can go up on a vertical gamma charge before you cut it forward. Play with it & see if you find something I might have missed.


#19

here’s a few corner combos with Jugg’s with Hulk charge assist:

Launch(d+fp), sj.lk, sj.lp, sj.lk, sj.fp, sj.fk, [land], j.lk, j.lp, [land], fp throw, j.lp+hulk assist, j.fp, [land], [hulk hits], j.lp, j.fp, [land], headcrush (8 hits). Throw can be teched, but catches everyone off guard.

j.fp,[land], lp, fp, lp Juggy Punch, hulk assist, d+lp, j.lp, j.fp, [land], Headcrush (8 hit). The timing is difficult with the hulk assist and the d+lp. You almost have to press them together but not quite.

Here’s some combos with Hulk using the Colossus AAA.

j.hk, d+lk, d+lk+assist, Gamma Charge, Gamma Crush. Colossu’s assist should hit between the Gamma Charge and first hit of the Crush for an unmashable gamma crush. Simple, but effective.

Launch (d+fp), colossus’ assist, sj.hk, [colossus hits], sj.lk, sj.lk, [land], j.fp throw, j.hk, [land], Gamma Charge, Gamma Quake. You gotta call colossus between the launch and the super jump so it has to be quick.

I’ll post various Colossus corner combos with assists later.


#20

It’s flat out retarded how deadly that shit is.

Any of your team big hit’s anywhere are dead characters :frowning:

sux real bad when you lose a character to those damn supers:mad: :lol: