Bison is bad.

m-bison

#1

I’m finding it hardpressed to find good things to say about him if you are not a top level player. He just can’t compete. I’m back and forth between gold and ultra silver ranks and I just keep running into matchups with shit players having all the options in the world and Bison has to waste V meter to get out of trouble that comes right back. He has shit anti-air, no 3f normals, no invincible reversals without blowing all meter, struggles air to air when people disrespect him, no overhead, and has shitty walk speed. Does anyone else feel like their playing with a high risk-low reward character? Necalli and Mika particularly make me feel like I may as well just go get some food instead of even play the match unless it’s against someone that doesn’t understand the matchup. After watching final round I felt even worse seeing that only 1 bison made it to top 50 and that’s all. Top 16 had 0 Bisons. We’re fighting an uphill battle here. Even watching guys like Moons doesn’t help since it seems that he loses most of the posted matchups i watch. It just feels like we’re winning matches they don’t know the matches or tricks to yet. When they do it’s clear how few options he has.


#2

We must be pragmatic about this and stop with the whining. Here is what we can do:

Shift our focus on Bison’s strengths and more importantly others’ weaknesses. All characters can be exploited to our advantage with sufficient knowledge. We are now slowly discovering the other characters, the dust has not settled which means the tiers are still potentially shuffling. No character is safe, so keep an eye out on others.

Capcom has said during the evo panel that their balancing approach involves primarily buffing weak characters instead of nerfing strong ones. We have about 6-8 months to organize a campaign to get Bison the buffs he needs for season 2.

We as Bison players have been in worst situations than this, we will survive and ultimately persevere. We still have the coolest fucking character in the game, this is merely a challenging situation and can help us work on becoming better players. Do not give up! Evil is still a good career choice, it has a lot to offer!

Hail BISON!


#3

This is true. So, what do we have? We have oppressive normals/block strings. I have ok matches with people unless 2 situations happen. Number 1, they turtle. The lack of overhead and slow walkspeed make Bison a non-threat. Number 2, they go on the offensive and never stop. Someone like Necalli, Mika, or Ryu played correctly completely shut Bison down. Are there ways around this? All non-bison players just lean on the"he’s so good in V-Trigger" argument but he has to spend most of his meter getting people off of him and never gets there in serious losses. Also I think it’s flat-out ridiculous that Scissors counts as being grounded. Getting swept, thrown, or cmd. grabbed out of it is insulting. How do we work around these in these types of matchups?


#4

Bison’s only real strength is his swag, other than that hes lower than garbage tier


#5

Really does feel like SF4 Bison forums again.


#6

If your getting rushed down use your v-reversal. Bisons V-reversal is really good since it grants you a knock down and gets them off you. And thats where he is strongest when you are close to them and they are on the ground.

Other really good options are to use the EX-psycho ball as a defensive or offensive tool it even works as a anti-air if you time it right. To use it offensivly throw it out and start dashing towards them if they block it you get pressure with St.HK or Axe if they try to jump over it just jump Mp AA them, sometimes if they don’t time the jump right the ball will explode on them.

The other option they have is back away but thats still to your advantage since they are cornering themselves and you are getting closer to them.

EX headstomp is also good if your in a tight spot. Its also a good anti air which can be beaten but only if they press a button very early while airborne.

Headstomp cancelled into the psycho hand (don’t know the name lol) is also a good tool especially against non-dp chars. Its good couse you can control the timing, do it early to beat jump ins or after cancelling headstomp from a normal to make them block it or get hit.

Do it late from far range to get in and you can really mess up peoples timings.

As for V-trigger there are a lot of good set ups most of them incorporating the dash. If you can time a V-trigger dash correctly when they are knocked down if they reversal dp or whatever you can make them whiff it on the oposite side CC them and profit.

If they wake-up jab or throw or whatever it still whifs on the wrong side and you still end up behind them for a free mp punish or a 100% throw in your favor.

Other good thing in V-trigger is Ex-Psycho hand (still don’t know the name lol) done as late as you can time it after headstomp. The later you do it the closer to the ground it comes out. When they are in the corner it even comes out same side which confuses them and me a lot lol.

I think it works only if they are walking back though so it needs more testing. Thers a lot more stuff but im done for now since the ps4 pad sucks for typing.


#7

Raul Julia would be spinning in his grave if he read these forums!


#8

About to start asking for 45 degree psycho dragon punches


#9

We know. It’s really easy to consider him bottom 5 right now.
One knockdown = gg.


#10

Why do you say that? All the chars that don’t have DP moves are susceptible to the same shenanigans on knockdown. Even 98% of the armored moves in the game get crushed. Only supers get a free pass.


#11

Mika’s EX Peach gets blown up by meaties too. Doesn’t seem to stop Mika players from getting away with that shit.

There’s always blocking.


#12

I think Bison has excellent corner pressure and is strong in the neutral game. Anti air’s are not the best but still solid. Has good anti fireball options. Versatile critical art.
People complain of low come back potential but I’m finding it way easier to make come backs than I did in IV even with using T-Trigger or Critical Art.
He dies horribly in the corner but I’m pretty sure that’s true of all characters.
Characters with DP’s have overall better defense on wake up as they can reversal obvious meaties and jumps in they won’t have time to anti air with normal’s.
If you can get beside them on wake up, like a slide knockdown back throw into corner then the pressure is on and wake up reversals becoming insanely risky for the defender.

If I could make one change so far its I’d have Psycho Blast not come out on a down forward command. I can’t count the amount of times I’ve wanted Psycho Axe only to get shafted with Blast.


#13

That’s very true. And that’s a habit to shed by learning to let the stick go neutral real quickly :frowning:


#14

was gonna say “worst april fools joke ever seen!”


#15

No Bison is not bad

Is Bison weak? that could be debated, but instead of focusing in what he does not have and can’t do. Instead focus on what he can do. He obviously is good enough for you to reach gold rank.

It is true that so far no U.S. Bison has made top 32, but it is still early. Europe seems to be enjoying him more than the U.S. players so maybe they can show us some stuff we have not seen before.


#16

His ground AA is a pile of shit, but his air-to-airs are great. If you do not hit them on the specific active frames then cr.fp is going to trade or whiff depending on angle of the jump.
I do find that possessing a 3-frame light improves defence immensely against certain characters as it limits their frame trap options into more predictable strings.
His neutral and optimal damage is lower in this game when compared to SF4, but his combo damage is better in situations where he has no charge and CA combos.


#17

His AA is solid, its just not as good as other characters.
His C.HP is better than his SF IV C.HP, in my opinion it trades less than it predecessor did. Ryu’s J.LK is an exception, it will always trade.
Nothing new about needing to hit on specific active frames. He is more susceptible to whiff jumps in front of him than IV and more susceptible to cross ups as well, but that’s due to to his lack of mobility.
A 3 frame normal would be nice, but so far I’m doing okay without it.
Agree with your last sentence.


#18

What I meant by a 3-frame normal is even if they have no reversal the fact that they have the normal means the aggressor has to be more aware of it than if the person has a 4-frame. I can go ham as Bison against 4-frame characters when I pressure, but against 3-frames I have to modify it which makes it more linear and easier to read as I have to bait them more. I am not saying he needs a 3-frame normal, but I would rather see Psycho axe at +2 and maybe ex knee at +2 since he has no 5-frame normal anyway.

I do not think comparing cr.fp in SF5 with SF4 is necessarily fair due to SF4 Bison’s superior mobility which probably limited his ground AA game.

The second portion is fine for AAing people coming from a higher angle, but why does it have to transition this way? If he had one more frame similar to the first one providing us with the ability to not trade so easily against shallower jumps then I would call it solid. There is almost no margin for error when timing a 10-frame normal to hit on the first active frame.
http://watissf.dantarion.com/sf5/boxdox/#v1_2/B59-2HP-9
http://watissf.dantarion.com/sf5/boxdox/#v1_2/B59-2HP-10


#19

He isn’t bad, but he ain’t top tier either.

He’s a scrub killer tho, no doubt about that. No wonder he’s so high in the EventScrubs tier ranking lol.