Blarog has the best trip (c.HK) in the game?

balrog

#1

I was just wondering which char has the best trip in the game.I know ruy, chun and few others have very good c.hk but to me, it seem rog has the best one (talking speed and range).Also you can combo in to it from jab.

What do you guys think?


#2

i’d rather have dudley’s trip. jugglable, reasonable range. it doesn’t come out as quickly but since the trip and and overhead can both set up into ultra, it’s a more powerful oki game and more useful than balrog’s sweep. knockdowns with balrog arent as useful compared to other characters also, and he has a shitty jump-in.


#3

I really don’t see Rog’s low rh as anything special. It’s a fine normal, but it’s pretty average in most respects. Let’s have a look at each of those points you made in no particular order.

  1. Speed

This one is easy to quantify. Rog’s low rh comes out in 8 frames. If we look at the startups of the 37ish grounded normals that cause untechable knockdowns (ukd henceforth) we find that they average out to 9 frames (8.8~), with around 15 being faster than Rog, around 15 being slower than Rog, and around 6 being the same as Rog, so as far as speed goes he’s literally right in the middle. Not great, not horrible, just average.

  1. Range

This one is slightly more tedious to quantify. A lot of the ukd normals in Super have different ranges depending on which active frame you’re looking at. Looking at the first active frame, the range on Rog’s low rh is 1.779 and the average (again, looking at the first active frame) is 1.616. To be fair though, there’s a pretty steep curve. Around 26 are shorter than his and only around 10 are longer. If we look beyond the first active frames though the results change. Since so many of them gain range the longer they’re active (including his own) the average goes up significantly, bringing Rog more in line with it, and lessening the curve.

  1. Comboability

To elaborate on that point you made about how Rog can combo into low rh off a jab, what makes that particularly of note is that he can do it off of a jab chain. Not a lot of characters can combo into a ukd from a normal. And of those even fewer can do it off of a normal that was preceded by a chain string. Of the characters than can though, Rog definitely got the short end of the stick. Disregarding special circumstances (like meaties), he can only combo into low rh from a far jab, which means two things; 1) if he isn’t at far range he has to chain until gets there which forces more damage scaling, and 2) his opp either has to be large or standing for it to work. The other chars that can use a chain preceding the link into their ukd normals aren’t, in general, limited by both of those at once. Ryu, for example, can chain his jabs just like Rog, but unlike Rog he can link into his low rh from any of them; low, close, and far. Because of this, and the fact that he has no significant mixups after a knockdown, I don’t find the fact that he can combo into a low rh terribly special.

  1. Specific Comparison to Ryu and Chun-Li

Since you brought up Ryu and Chun specifically, let’s look at how they stack up.

Startup, Range, Damage, Stun, OnBlock

RYU;
5, 1.649, 90, 100, -14

CHUN-LI;
7, 1.728, 90, 200, -5

BALROG;
8, 1.779, 90, 120, -6

Ryu wins in speed.
Rog wins in range.
They tie in damage.
Chun wins in stun.
Chun wins in frame advantage.

Those stats alone don’t tell the whole story though. Let’s look at how they stack up in terms of hitboxes.

IMAGE: Balrog, Chun-Li, Ryu: Low RH Comparison

We can see that Rog’s low rh has a less than favorable set of hitboxes. His vulnerable hitbox extends well infront of, and below, his active hitbox, making it much more likely that he’ll get stuffed or trade in an exchange.

In comparison, we can see that the active hitboxes on Ryu and Chun’s low rh’s extend beyond their vulnerable hitboxes, an attribute common to very solid normals.

Chun’s is the real standout of the three though. The fact that her extended active and vulnerable hitboxes are so high makes it much more likely that she’ll pass over low pokes from her opp and score a ukd.

Now, having said all that, I want to make it clear that Rog’s low rh is not a bad normal. It’s a fine normal. I’ve used and abused the shit out of it in the years since SFIV came out. Is it the best normal of it’s type in the game though? Not in my eyes. Not by a long shot.

As for which one I think is the best, well, that’s a tough one to answer, and I don’t really think it can be answered definitively.

I’m a big fan of Dee Jay’s low fwd though. That one is pretty tight.


#4

That is a reply that answers everything. Well done!


#5

Dee Jay’s c.mk is GDLK.


#6

Awesome post xaaz!

…will add that the range is actually a curse as well. FA whores will destroy it alot easier.

I honestly really think Ryu has the best overall simply because he can combo to it and start his hella annoying oki wake up game for > 35% of your bar. He just can’t spam it against characters that can punish it’s recovery on reaction.


#7

Very informative.Thanks for the great answer !


#8

I think guys cr.mk is better IMO, it hits twice. Deejay’s can be Focus absorbed. Although guys still pretty terrible, a normal OH and a twice hitting ukd is pretty awesome for simple oki, but that’s just my opinion.


#9

Yeah, you’ve definitely got a point there. Guy’s low fwd is pretty sweet too. In my eyes they’re better at different things though.

As a combo ender, I feel Dee Jay’s is better because it’s much easier to combo it off of a jab chain since it’s a 2 frame link. Guy can do the same, but the link from his chains are 1 framers. You can plink it of course, but adding another layer of complexity in order to do the same thing as Dee Jay makes it less favorable.

As a poke, I believe Guy’s low fwd is better since it’s 0 on block and, as you mentioned, hits twice. It’s pretty fast too with a 6 frame startup. Dee Jay’s low fwd on the other hand is -5 on block, which is very punishable for some chars, and only hits once, as you also said. Dee Jay does have a slight range advantage though (Guy:0.961-1.094 vs DeeJay:1.265-1.276), and it’s one frame faster coming out (5), but both of those points are fairly insignificant. Additionally, both of their active hitboxes extend beyond their vulnerable hitboxes, which is always a solid attribute for a poke, so they both get points for that.

They’re both fine normals but I personally hate Guy and have a soft spot for easy comboability, so between the two I’m biased in favor of Dee Jay.


#10

i thought it was chun li and it was pretty obvious…