ok so, after playing WW and nashfans chuns, while also trying to crack the code on oldschool valles style of movement/footsies i think i finally “get it”
first the bnb’s and setups courtesy of Whawhat:
bnb’s tested versus ryu, setup is empty jump/walkin point blank/show focus >dash in > low attack.
1.cr.lk > crlpx2 > st.fp = 172
2.cr.lk > cr.lp x2 > st.lp > st.fp = 176
3.cr.lp x3 > st.fp = 182
4.cr.lp x3 > st.lp > st.fp = 186
5.cr.lk x2 xx ex legs = 180
6.cr.lk x3 xx ex legs = 189
7.cr.lk > cr.lp x2 > cr.mk xx exlegs = 234 (insane damage here!)
miscellaneous for comparison values:
- j.fp x2 > cr.lp x 3 > st.fp = 244
- j.fp x2 > cr.fp xx mk hasan shu = 297
another bnb worth mentioning cause of spacing and west coast shuffle (wcs):
1.cr.lk > cl.st.lk > cr.lp > st.fp = 172
should you decide to not continue this combo on block you can stop at either the cr.lp or the close standing light kick… either way you’ve achieved some great spacing for walk forward throw or dash forward throw… mixing up this with hasan shus and cr.lk’s
theory on the bnb’s:
i used to never use these till whawhat came by, he showed me that through empty jumping i could pretty much guarantee that the opponent would be standing and so there would be no need to confirm the high or crouch hit… he’s got some other setups besides empty jumping but i’ll leave those to him… if he wants to divulge some of his secrets, this thread is here.
also, you should whenever possible substitute cr.lp for st.lp… the reason is obvious:
cr.lp does 40 damage and st.lp only does 20… but st.lp has more range versus ryus hitbox so it will combo in places that crlp would have wiffed… thats why i put down this list of bnb’s that hit him…
an interesting bnb versus chun is:
cr.lk > cr.lp x 3 > st.fp = 190!
West coast shuffle (wcs)
ok so this is some powerful shit… fortunately its EXCLUSIVELY a high level tactic and much more of an art than a tactic… if you get owned for trying this, dont come crying to me… i dont wanna hear it… you have to know your opponent and have set them up/read them well before you can do this… also i call this the west coast shuffle because it was taught and originated by tomo to watson to valle (this is what i assume… i know valle gives watson credit for teaching him footsies… i’ve seen watson (wcs) before and i can only assume from reading old school threads that watson himself learned/stole this from the man himself… TOMO)
i could definitely be wrong on who originated this and how it was passed down, one thing that i do know is that the earliest vids i’ve seen of this being used was by valle/choi and watts way back in the b4 tourny… also this isnt a west coast exclusive thing… i’m pretty sure that i’ve seen east coast players use this from time to time… but no one abuses this shit like us… i’ve even seen mm use this a few times in his videos versus dr.chaos:
so it is basically in an oversimplified nutshell:
walk forward > walk back > crouching attack
are you guys yawning now???
let me explain: this IS NOT regular spacing / footsies games… there is a VERY specific range where this can be used to good effect and generally speaking those 2 ranges are: just inside your opponents crouching lk/lp range, and just inside of your opponents crouching mk range if there prefferred medium poke is a kick… if its a punch then just inside of the punches range is where the sweet spot is.
heres an extremely basic example:
chun v.ryu, ryu in corner, chun about to pull off a wcs:
from outside of her cr.lp range she walks in and does a MAX RANGE cr.lp that gets blocked or hit (prefferably hit) after she recovers from the cr.lp she walks forward about a half a step and then immediately walks backwards (now out of range of a cr.lp and does a crouching medium kick xx exlegs.
what makes this so hard besides you really having to be in your opponents head, is that there is a specific timing too how long you want to hold forward and then how long you hold backwards before you input the crouching attack.
if you hold forward too long you will get jabbed or thrown either on the way in or out, if you dont do it long enough you wont be able to sell the throw bait… if you hold backwards too long you will be out of your crouching attack range.
now like i said that was the most basic example that i could give, heres another one that is a little more advanced:
chun JUST outside of her st.mp range:
walk forward > duck when a bit outside of chuns cr.mk range > immediately walk forward again and throw when in range.
next time it gets more advanced:
walk forward into cr.mk range > duck then immediately walk forward again into ryus cr.lp range > walk backwards > cr.mk xx ex legs.
and for a complete mindfuck and why the (wcs) is so goddamned awesome:
same positioning just outside of chuns st.mp:
walk forward > duck > walk forward into weak attack range > walk backwards > duck > walk in throw.
once you understand the simple building blocks like ducking being a “fake” crouching attack and walking into you opponents crouching jab range on purpose with no intention to throw but only to get them to wiff something or standup: you can come up with your own patterns… just know that is only the tip of the iceberg… you can duck to fake a low attack and then immediately jump in while they are thinking about defending the ground.
if you duck and then immediately go to neutral, this is a fake jump… it only works when you use the ducking to jump strategy that i outlined earlier though… you can use it to freeze the opponent for a split second and let you get into say cr.mk range uncontested.
and thats all i’m going to say about that.
i’ll be putting up some explanatory vids a bit later though… need to find them first.
awesomeness ensues from 7:55 to 8:05
wcs is at 8:00
watson does it at 1;43 and 1;44 here:
other spots its attepmted by both players but these 2 are way too good for it to work well on each other:
other amazing shit:
this game is soaked through and through with option selects… i have not figured out the main facets (the basics if you will) for some of them but heres the one for nemos cr.lk (lk~mk~hk) option select versus waking backdashers:
cr.lk > cr.lp or cr.lk + cr.hk.
first, theres no reason to roll the inputs other than buffering the ex legs.
second, this can be done by every character not just chun… the only thing needed is to use a chainable weak attack followed by another one + whatever higher priority button/MOVE that you want to come out… and yes this is also option selectable to special moves like hasan shu instaed of just the cr.lk.
i’ll write more in a bit… tired… gonna go find those videos.