Bottom Tier Thread


#1

I think we all know how Tiers work…

You got your crazy good characters
Less than crazy good characters
Everyone else
and the junk… the crap… the worst.

Maybe they can hang with the mids even crazy-goods if you outplay them… but if you base your team on them, you’re fucked. The Bottom Tier.

So who are they in this game? I think Zangief was raped… and there’s Dan/KyoSucky. Chang? Beni? Maki? King? Rock even? Does Vice belong there? :slight_smile:

Who are the real underdogs of this game?


#2

Chang, Maki, and Rock aren’t low-tier.

Now Beni, I’m not sure of.


#3

IMO dhalsim, kyosuke, benimaru, vice, and king. just my opinion. i haven’t seen of those characters used very well much less being able to compete with sagat, blanka, vega, and chun li.


#4

I’ve been using Beni for a while now and I’m still not all that great with him.:mad:


#5

stuff

Chang is pretty dame good in the right hands, cause
I have witnessed a few chang players and there pretty sick…

My friend plays a good A-groove Dhalsim…:eek:

Well to tell you the truth I have never seen a good Rock player…:confused:

But I use King in A-groove and im not that great with her but
im not bad either and her combo in the corner kills 9500…

I made a mid screen CC with her that does about 7500, but the
only thing she lacks is a good anti-air CC…

Yeah they did king wrong in this game, kyosuke’s garbage,
Zangief is still pretty good in my opinion, vice is okay, I mean
shes probally better than king maybe…

Maybe I should make a king thread to discuss her stratigically…
I’ll put it in general discussion cause the last character specific update for her was 3 months ago…

I use N- Yama/Geese/ Vice, Kyo, or Vega
and A- King/Joe/Terry…

And im trying to make a S-groove team also…:lol:

Later…:cool:


#6

Bottom tier = kyosuke, king

most other people are usable. and if you’re willing to give it time and think rock can be fucking good.


#7

rock is FAR from bottom tier, i’d even give him second tier. he’s a beast in K-groove, and is good in practically any groove. Otaku used K-rock as his r2 against daigo in SBO. i doubt he’d use a low tier character in the SBO top 8.

and just because you haven’t seen a “good” insert random character, it doesn’t mean they’re automatically bad. at evo i saw gunter’s A-king OWNING people in casual play on thursday night. i just kinda sat back and enjoyed the show, because it was so nice seeing such a under-used character owning everybody.


#8

Sagat!! He blows man. No priority. :wink: :rolleyes: :wink:


#9

I don’t mean any offense, but just because Gunter kicked some ass with King doesn’t make her a “good” character does it? Perhaps he was flat out better than his competition, or that they weren’t used to playing a King that actually knows what he’s doing? That’s not what I’m talking about anyways… Don’t tell me who ISN’T bottom tier… I just threw out some names. I really don’t know.

Let’s see who we got…

Sagat, Blanka, Bison, Chun, Cammy, Sakura, Geese, Guile, Iori, Rolento, and Vega, are all really good right? I’m just picking names here, but I think we can all agree that they’re not garbage, right?

That leaves us with: Akuma, Athena, Zangief, Ryu, Rock, Maki, Benimaru, Kim, Balrog, Chang, Dan, Dhalsim, Honda, Terry, Yun, Eagle, Haohmaru, Hibiki, Joe, Ken, Kyo, Kyosuke, Mai, Morrigan, Yamazaki, Nakoruru, Raiden, Rugal, Ryo, Todo, Vice, King, and Yuri.

I know all these guys can dish out the hurt when played in the right hands… But if you had to pick the 5 worst characters out of that list, who would they be?


#10

Out of those… I’d say… Dan, Dhalsim, Yun, Kyosuke and King… though you forgot king in that list.

The Ds and Ks suck, eh?


#11

Gunter

I’ve talked to gunter on his forums about king…
(under the user name stealth)

even though his forum is pretty much dead…

Anyway he stated that he has had some success with king
and this is what he had to say:

GUNTER

“Well, I’ve been using her at More in Shinjuku with a great success rate. You have to turtle with her, RCing her HCB+kick move, poking with low strong and low forward/roundhouse, and staying full screen with fireballs and using s.roundhouse and c.fierce as anti-air when they jump. True, her best custom is anti-air in the corner, but don’t forget her midscreen ground to ground CC: c.forward, c.roundhouse, rh fb, roll, j.strongx2 (do two sets if full screen), j.rh x2-j.fierce, rh trap shot, super. EASY custom, decent damage.”

Now I would just do my mid screen custom cause it takes way more than this…

I myself have had some success with king but that still doesnt
prove anything, if I worked hard enough to implament a strategy to get them to the corner, and always being able to get them
into a custom she’d be pretty good…( its not that hard seeing as
all her moves knock you the f+ck away…

truth is ive been using the same strategy for a while, but then
again most of what he stated above is common sense with king…
(no offence gunter) :slight_smile:

I really dont care for roll canceling too much, because I think its
cheap…(just my opinion) :lame:

By the way I think ill try A-groove rock out again for real this time…
His customs do more than Joes so maybe ill switch joe for rock…

A-King-Rock(maybr)-Terry
N-Yama-Geese-Vega or Vice

Kyo I think ill put in my S-groove but who else can i put on there?

Later…:cool:


#12

There is only one character in the bottom tier in CvS2, and his name is Kyosuke. EVERYONE else has been used to some degree of success…

yes, even DAN.


#13

True

Dan isnt that bad actually and has a pretty good CC and a crazy
C.groove combo, with experimentaion ive come to find that dan
can do a mk.cross up, c.lp, s.fp into a gaduken which is good damage…

Or you can do the combo above into a level 3 gaduken instead of
a regular one which results in major damage if you were in
K-groove, but even in another groove that combo would still be
very damaging…

PS: Gunter good to hear from you, but what happened to the forums, man…:frowning:

Its kind of like family fun forums which I used to go to but that
sites forums died indefinitley…:frowning:

Yeah I think im going to stick with rock in A-groove, but who
is a all around better character JOE or ROCK?

I think that Rock has more options but joe has that invincible start up on his tiger knee…

None the less Gunter you have a great site, anyone in need of A-groove info go to namonaki, thats where I first started to learn A-groove…

Later…:slight_smile:


#14

Dan can do some pretty good damage, especially since he hits pretty hard. his normals hurt!

Zangief is in no way low tier. but if you aren’t at least above average in using him, you get owned pretty bad by people like Sagat…

if I were to pick out 5 bottom tier in the game, I’d pick:
Kyosuke, Yuri, Yun, King… and maybe Dan or Vice? or maybe even Mai.

Kyosuke I think there should be no objections.
Yuri, even though has some good traps/tricks that’s usable, but deals too little damage in general and has too little life. Gunter’s site has some good CC’s of hers, but still…
Yun, we all saw A-Yun from last year’s EVO, but like… so? Have you met anyone else who can use Yun even half decently? Same reason: low damage, low life
King, pretty much same reason. Low damage and low life. No speed.
Dan or Vice I don’t know, I think they can be used well if in the right hands. Vice while having somewhat low damage and life, has better potential than the other 3 I mentioned I feel. Dan has good damage and life, though his specials are limited, he should be able to stand against stronger characters.
And I include Mai not because she’s really that bad… but she is like a watered-down version of other shotos. She has a slower (startup/recovery) fireball, weak dp with no invinc. (ryuenbu), invinc. dp but needs charge (flame pillar) also super slow recovery, supers useless outside of combos (no anti-air ability or stuffing ability outside of lvl 3s), bnbs that are no better than shotos’ bnbs, lower damage and lower life. not to mention no useful crossups. and she is pretty slow for a ninja :lol: I simply can’t find a reason to pick her instead of a shoto, except for uniqueness. Making her pretty useless as a character…

[edit]
sorry I totally forgot about Benimaru when I was writing that. Benimaru would fit in the place right after Kyosuke as the 2nd most useless character of the game… low damage, low life, low damage combos even, low damage supers… aside from speed he doesn’t really have anything good.


#15

A mai is actually very good… Gunter is right, only Kyosuke is bottom tier. I’ve seen great King, Dhalsim, and Dan players.


#16

But you see, Kyosuke’s not even bottom tier. He’s in the DEEP SHIT tier.

Topic ain’t asking for that. :lol:


#17

Beni is pretty good, he just has to low of life and damage. He has high priority normals and has free jump-ins on alot of characters w/o an uppercut (Yamazaki for ex.). He has a good combo int super (short x4, mk xx Run electricity super). His c.mk owns Sagat.


#18

sure these chars (chang, king, etc.) might do good once and a while, but the amount of work you need to do to get something done isn’t worth it why i think they should be considered low teir. if you have to roll cancel everything and turtle all day to stand a chance how does that make them so much better?


#19

Chang’s mid- to upper-mid tier status shouldn’t even be in question. He has a solid trap, easy GC sequences, and a high-damage, stupid easy CC.

And TIERS are NOT determined by how much you have to do in order to make them effective. It is based on their effectiveness. PERIOD. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. What the majority of SRK believes is the definition of “top tier” (easy to use, priority, damage) is actually the definition of “scrub character” - i.e. characters that can be used by scrubs and are still effective. Guile has a lot of intricacies to him and you have to really learn him in order for him to be effective, but once you learn him, he’s extremely powerful. Bison and Sakura take a lot of practice to get their CCs down. Your random scrub can’t land them (much less DO them) consistently, but does it matter what a scrub can do? Of course not. You judge anything about the game on how it is when played at its full potential.

As far as RCs go, real players can RC. Real players WILL RC. For THEM, it isn’t much of a hassle. Disregarding RCs in determining tiers is preposterous. You aren’t examining CvS2 at that point, you’re examining a game that only exists in your own mind, and to some extent on consoles (which have never been accurate for conversions since WW).


#20

So you are basically saying Gunter… Besides the really good guys with clear advantages, and Kyosuke who is apparently, clearly garbage… Everyone else is EXACTLY the same in terms of rank?

The mid tier all have the exact same chance of winning against the rest of the cast… ? So there is no “lower-mid” tier?

If anything that’s all I’m asking here out of curiosity… If Kyosuke is THAT bad that he deserve a rank all his own (jeez, pity that guy), then who would be the lower-mid tier? If you had to pick the 5 worst guys in the game, who would they be? Or is it impossible to say?