Boxer Cliff Notes

balrog

#1

For anyone who finds this useful… (updating periodically)

STANDING
:lp: good standing poke, +5 hit/+1 block, cancellable
:mp: anti-air, situational
:hp: great poke, crumples on counter hit, hits from half-screen
:lk: worthless for the moment
:mk: good poke, +6 hit/+2 block
:hk: decent poke, can link into other moves up close

CROUCHING
**:lp: **good combo starter, pretty quick, cancellable
**:mp: **great button, good range, can be used to start, continue or lead into the end of a combo, cancellable
*:hp: *best anti-air normal, although downgraded from SSFIV
*:lk: *great move, chains into itself, same range as c.LP, must be blocked low, cancellable
*:mk: *links into c.mp for starting combos, decent range

  • :hk: *“the sweep”, great move, great range, must be blocked low, can be a good combo ender if you want your opponent on the floor, fairly safe at max range but -10 on block so be careful, provides hard knockdown

JUMPING
:hp:/:hk: best options, both combo starters
:lp:/:lk:/:mp:/:mk: still researching, j.LK crosses up

DASH STRAIGHT (chargeable, provides knockdown against airborne opponents)
**:lp: **besides EX this is the only one that should be used ala carte, not great but decent to throw out by itself every once in a while, combo ender
:mp: still researching
:hp: only should be used as an ender
:2p: absorbs one hit, great tool to have for getting in

DASH LOW STRAIGHT (provides hard knockdown, must be blocked low)
:lp:/:mp:/:hp: decent mix-up tool, more specific info to come
:2p: super armor

DASH SWING BLOW (must be blocked high, all versions can be switch canceled)
:lp:/:mp:/:hp: good overhead tool, more specific info to come
:2p: adds bounce to start combo

HIT CONFIRMING (from rainscape)


More to come…


#2

i do not agree with many of the things you have said

standing mp i actually find to be a great anti air - if used against the right characters and at the right angles. It beats hugo brainless body splashes for free alllll day for one, but that happens against a lot of characters if you catch them high in their jump

standing medium kick i also find to be a pretty solid poke - range is great and since you can string into heavy into launcher out of it the move certainly has it’s uses - the frames are even pretty solid here - +6 on hit and +2 on block.

the more i play against good players the less i use standing hp and standing hk, the frame data is poor on those as far as advantage is concerned, but on WIFF these things are just ASKING for you to get wrecked! they aren’t bad moves by any stretch, and vs certain characters they are pretty fantastic - but the more i play the less these buttons are pressed as a poke.

crouching mp i feel is overrated, but is still very very good. after say jab jab cmp you can go into a rush punch or do a rush punch cancel dash in and back to square one with pressure as well… perhaps i just feel it’s overrated beacuse i’m use to steve’s c mp hahaha

crouching hp is not safe, not even close to safe, and once people realize that you’re going to be punished for using this button often (which is a shame)
if a character has a dp you’re at least eating that, but many characters can walk forward low medium into launcher. the move is minus TEN on block (yikes!) - it seems safe at max range, but your hand REALLY stays out there longer than it needs to.

jumping lk is AMAZING especially against the larger characters like hugo gief kuma marduk etc - this move an cross up! the hitbox isn’t great, but it at very least makes your opponent have one more thing to think about. It can link into your jabs, from which you can do several different things. just something to get people thinking. Not the most crazy amazing hitbox, but still. Making your opponent have to think about things just a little bit more than they are is a great tool to have. ESPECIALLY in the corner. You can do this move really late and still not crossup - or you can chose to do the crossup. This is assumign that they stay in the corner and didn’t roll out.

I assume you were talking about diagonal jumping moves, so I’d like to point out that neutral jumping hp is also great. Really solid downward hitbox, and you can control your momentum ala honda in super 4 (although to a much lesser extent) but the move is super solid.

lp dash straight is actually -4 on block, where mp dash straight is only -3 (and +1 on hit) so there’s a reason to use mk dash straight (hp dash straight is -6 on block) startup is a little bit slower, but overall i’d probably prefer that depending on the opponent’s ability to punish a -4 move

i like the idea of the posts, these are some of my own thoughts.


#3

It’s just not amazing, that’s all I was saying. It’s situational at best and not even ballpark to something like Rolento’s standing :mp:.

Did you mean crouching :hk:? Was this a typo?

Situational at best. Not amazing.

The start-up being slower is the big picture. With some of the jabs in this game you’re likely to eat a punish regardless of which ever one you use. In my opinion, :lp: is more reliable overall.

Good stuff though, I didn’t known j.LK crossed up. Figures they add rolls to a game where Rog has a cross up.


#4

saying everything has no uses isn’t going to help people trying to pick up balrog is i guess more the point i was making haha, lk is amazing because it has those situational uses, making people think rather than just autopiloting all the time is an amazing tool to have.

moves can be great and situational. like basically every move dhalsim has LOL

and yes i mean crouching hk my bad

rolento anti air standing m is so gross good hahaha

but yeah you gotta time the standing m right and its not perfect for every air normal sadly

but it’s super useful against hugo if you’re doing a good job keeping him a little bit further away from you and make him want to jump with the splash

anyway i find myself wishing that he had more advantage on his moves, especially his rush punches… putting yourself into frame trap situations isn’t fun off all those XD

and even like upper above a croucher into grab sucks because its SEVEN FRAMES sigh i almost wish you could like CANCEL the upper if it wiffs into grab to make that faster XD


#5

Just my $0.02:

s. mk: Sorry, I kinda disagree. Rog’s standing mks are far from worthless. Far version is not that great because it’s a bit slow, but it does have decent range, and it seems to do better against crouching attacks with lower hit boxes. It’s also ok for comboing into a magic series into a launcher in a footsie battle. The close version is special cancelable and seems to have better juggle priority than cr. mp. (i.e.: You can juggle with it in situations where cr. mp won’t hit)

cr. lk: Actually, cr. lk seems pretty good in SFxT. In this game it has more frame advantage than cr. lp, and has to be blocked low. It’s a much better combo starter than cr. lp since it allows links into cr. mp and cs. hk, where as cr. lp only really lets you link into other lights.

cr. lp: I don’t think it’s all that good. For one it has limited comboability compared to cr. lk. It does seem to have slightly better hitboxes than cr. lk, and it allows you to rapid fire cancel to form true block strings so you don’t get DP mashed, but that’s about it.

s. lk: Not Rog’s best normal, but still far from worthless. It’s good for tick/frame traps since it doesn’t have that much push back.

jumping normals: mp/mk are ok as air-to-airs. the lights are useful for jump-ins… particularly in mix-ups in the event that your opponent blocks your jump-in attack. (e.g.: If your opponent is accustomed to blocking hp/hk jump-ins, you can sometimes catch them by surprise by using a light normal as a tick, and then going for a throw).

fs. lp: you can also link it after cr. mp in a combo if you need just a bit more back charge to do a special cancel. (This enables you to do walk-in combos without needing to charge beforehand)

As for dash straight: the slower start up of mp dash straight won’t matter if you’re cancelling it off fs. lp or cr. mp if you’re just doing it for chip damage. (Common sense rules apply as to whether you should be doing this in a match up or not)

This thread seems like a good idea, but let’s not discount his stuff as worthless just yet. It hasn’t even been a month yet. :stuck_out_tongue:


#6

good read guys… keep it coming :slight_smile:


#7

I was having decent luck with jumping jab as an air to air and combo-ing afterwards. I was still just messing around with 'rog so I dunno if I just got lucky.


#8

I’ll revise/update this later today. I haven’t been able to play the last few days so it’s been kind of a drag.


#9

the more i play the more i like standing mp as an anti air (on counterhit i just do MK FK as the follow up - easy 185 - haven’t tried to optimize yet, but I’m assuming that you have no charge), and standing jab (os fierce) is like one of the best pokes out there, just be careful not to OS the fierce if you’re in range to have then block against a lot of characters tats super punishable


#10

some of the dumbest post ive ever read im sorry, i stopped reading after you coudnt even rate his normals right, crouch lk is bad? its his bed couching normal you can link into itsself to whatever you want to cancel, then stanking mk is bad? have you tried using it? obviously not, its got great range and if you fish for it you can chain into a launcher. please stop spreading false info


#11

This is not a finalized list or anything. I’ve been wrong about SO much since opening the game and playing it continuously. I’m just trying to make this a living document that can be updated as people discover more about Boxer.

Despite your terrible skill level in the English language you definitely brought up some good points: c.LK and s.MK are much better than I’ve given them credit for. I just hadn’t had the time to use them extensively or experiment.

Some of us don’t have time to play the game all day and edit posts on the hour every hour. I have no problem with being wrong as I have played SFxT a fraction of the time that others have. But if someone sees this post and says, “He’s wrong about that, and here’s why,” then the knowledge in this post gets refined. I’m just trying to create a centralized place for Boxer data.

Though I had to sift through your poor spelling and lack of grammar/punctuation, your contribution is noted. And as you’ve shared your feedback with me I shall reciprocate and share some with you: the word “standing” does not have the letter “k” in it…anywhere. Thanks for making the fighting game community a better place.


#12

Chill guys. No need to be rude. Everyone is still figuring stuff out in this game. :stuck_out_tongue:

My latest labwork results:

hit confirming after pokes:

You can hit confirm cr. mp, cr. mk, or fs. mk into fs. lp > boost combo, so if you happen to connect with a random poke you get a potential combo opportunity. For this reason there’s really no point in using cr. hk anymore if you’re within cr. mk range (unsafe, lesser damage). This also makes these medium normals particularly useful in frame traps.

Regarding cr. mk, cr. mp, fs. mk follow-ups on hit:

The link to fs. lp is fairly easy (2 frames for cr. mp and fs. mk, and 4 frames for cr. mk), so with a bit of practice it should become second nature. If you’re going for a launcher into a long juggle combo (i.e.: You plan to burn some meter for it), don’t bother going into a magic series as the damage scaling will ruin the damage for longer juggles. Cancel the standing jab directly into the launcher. (hp+hk).

As you probably won’t have enough back charge for a special cancel during footsies or during frame traps, the best possible follow up for cr. mk hit confirms appears to be fs. hk x launcher. It’s a one frame link though, but can net you over 400+ damage depending on your tag partner.

Regarding DSB:

-Errata: @LongBeach: ex DSB doesn’t have armor.
-All versions of DSB can be switch canceled to make them somewhat safer on block. (You can jab cancel the run to stop some distance away from your opponent, provided you did the DSB some distance away from your opponent)
-You can combo out of all versions of DSB after switch cancelling, provided your anchor has a fast enough attack (still not sure how fast the normal needs to be though). The ex version’s ground bounce makes comboing easier and may provide higher damage combo opportunities after a switch cancel.

Regarding Dash straight:

-Some characters can combo out of a switch canceled HP dash straight. Spacing and timing is tricky though. I’m still unable to do it consistently, but I’ve been able to link Cammy’s cs. HP after a raw HP dash straight (not sure if you can do it after a combo’d dash straight though)

Instant overhead:

Rog’s jf/jb hk can be used as an instant overhead, but only on standing tall characters. [S]Usable as a wakeup meaty (as your opponent will have a standing hitbox unless they do a crouching move on the first frame of their wake up.)[/S] Scratch that, seems this property didn’t carry over from SF4.[S][/S]


#13

Solid, solid stuff. Thanks for the info.


#14

One thing I noticed is off a headbutt or BnB midscreen if you follow up with Cr.Mp to dash upper to S.FP it will do 20 more damage then the normal follow up of dash upper S.FP or S.FK. Again this is only midscreen though.


#15

Rog is good first and foremost. He takes work and fearlessness since some of pokes don’t have the best range or poor frames. As far as combos go, Cr. L is a great tool because it’s easy to confirm on hit if your not mashing. I have found that 3 Cr. L into light BH, Cr. MP into Light BH is a good combo for beginners such as myself. Dash Straight should really only be used to keep people honest IMO and only M version is depending on spacing. Dash Low is good for combo enders and position, but I would still use BH because Rog’s walk speed is good.

As far his pokes, yes, Cr. HK is good for range, but whiffs are free for anyone. St. HK not so easy at -1 on block. If spaced right, -10 doesn’t even matter. You have to hit with the tip of glove NO Homo lmao. Frame traps from all LP/Cr. LK’s are important, especially if spacing is on point for ST. HP to crumple. J. HP/HK are good tools of course because of the plus frames and range. St. MK is a good poke at right range and is easy chain from St. LP into launcher. Overall, once the game is fleshed out, Rog will High Mid Tier if you believe in Tier List in my humble opinion.


#16

Barring the discovery of new tech, I don’t see how Rog is getting anywhere close to being high tier, or even high mid-tier. Optimistically he’ll be smack dab in the middle, but he doesn’t seem to have anything that will get him past low-mid tier at the moment.

Just my 2 cents, but “3x cr. lights into xx lp headbutt …” isn’t really a good combo. Scaling kills the damage, you can’t do it off a walk-in because 3 lights don’t give you enough time to charge, and it whiffs on crouchers. It has its place in a Rog players arsenal, but its use is situational, and you won’t be seeing opportunities to use it as often as in SF4.

I’ll also point out that frame advantage on block has nothing to do with how easily something is punished on whiff. All of Rog’s hard pokes are easy to whiff punish with anything that has sufficient reach and speed.


#17

I hear you on that. I think some of the stuff I said wasn’t n correct order and optimistic lol. But I do think that because Rog is charge, that you take damage where you can get. 3 cr lk’s N2 light BH juggle with cr mp n2 second light Bh gets around 230 i believe. It’s easy to confirm and does damage without using meter. The real damage comes off of EX Dash Swing Blow n2 TP. Granted, I’m not an expert by any stretch, but Rog just has interesting stuff and I think will surprise as time moves on. I hope!


#18

Ever thought of updating the cliff notes with the rest of his moves? I’d like to know what people think of cl.HK especially. At +9 on hit it can be linked into another Heavy, giving Balrog what I believe is the best pre-launcher combo in the game (LHH, the average, is 133 on 80%, this is 220 with the same hits). +3 on block should be good for something, but I’m not too knowledgeable on frame traps.
Only thing I am worried about is the 7 frame startup. Is that too slow to be considered a punishing move outside of Sweeps and Blocked launchers? Man if it was 5-6 frames I’d be really happy.

As for another move, is the re-direction you can do with his nj.HP useful in any way?


#19

I stopped playing this game a while ago so I haven’t updated this. Someone should probably takeover or delete this thread.


#20

Kind of stopped playing some time back, but I did do a bit of lab work before I quit, so I’ll try to answer your questions:

-the problem with the cr. lk to cs. hk combos is that on crouchers, the push back from the cr. lk will often take them out of cs. hk range. Also, the combo itself isn’t that good since it starts with a light, while other characters can hit confirm off mediums and heavies.

-7 frames is quite slow considering how close you have to be to use cs. hk without fs. hk coming out instead. Most characters have faster normals at that range. You’ll need to work on setting up appropriate situations to use it properly, but there are quite a few good hit confirms you can do off of it.

-Wiggle punch is great for inching forward when neutral jumping fireballs.