Breaking Down the Throw Metagame

From my gaming experience, it seems as follows:

Throw beats crouching jab (why is this, don’t they both start up in 3 frames?)
Throw loses to crouching short (but most c.shorts start up in 4 frames so sometimes it ends up in a technical)

crouching jab beats out frame traps (beating them in startup)
crouching short loses to frame traps (gets counterhit)

Lets say I am Yun and throw out an improperly spaced divekick (hits too high) - it seems he can throw me there everytime. Is there anything I can do about this, whether it be mashing reversal, command throw, backdash, etc.?

Also, how do we use non-3f reversals vs wakeup meatys? Is it totally non-effective to be mashing HK upkicks vs combos as Yun since HK is so slow to come out? Does that mean our startup get be interrupted?

Finally, what happens in command throw vs command throw situations? Surely we need to know if our command throw can beat Abel/Zangief/T.Hawk/Feilong’s throws.

Do you guys want this thread moved? Or leave it as is? We just had a thread clean up.

These are pretty legitimate questions imo. These are a few questions I’ve been wondering as I’ve been leveling up my yun.

Part 2: Knockdown & Wakeup 8:02

I’ll try, please correct anything that is wrong.

Throw beats normal. If both start up at the exact same time, throw will always win.
Throw does not lose to crouching short. Crouching short is a normal just like crouching jab. If a throw and crouching short become active at the very same frame, throw will win, hands down. This is assuming you’re within range of a throw, of course.

Demoninja is correct about the frame traps.

If you badly space your dive kick, then there’s nothing you can do to stop your opponent from punishing you. But if you space your dive kick so it’s about -2 or better, then you’ll still have 1frame or so to backdash or mash dp. I just arbitrarily picked -2 because most characters have a 3f startup move like cr.LP or dp.

Yun’s LK dp has 5frames invincible startup, and 2frames invincible active. 5+2 = 7frames of invincibility.
It depends on what kind of meaty. If it’s a safe jump, don’t bother. Your opponent will land and recover in time to block your reversal. If it’s just your opponent doing meaty cr.LK on your wakeup, also don’t bother. Upkicks will whiff on crouchers, except HK and EX, though they are the most risky reversals to attempt.

HK as a reversal during combos is not entirely useless. A reversal for combos doesn’t necessarily have to be as fast as a 3f dp to be effective. Just as long as it is fast enough to hit your opponent before he recovers after the gap. For example, if Ryu does cr.LP , cr.LP (non chained) with perfect timing, then in between the cr.LP is a 1f gap to start your reversal. Meanwhile, Ryu is still recovering from his second cr.LP (approximately 11frames) so your 8frame HK Upkicks reversal will beat him out of it.

I dunno anything about the properties of Yun’s command grab. I dunno anything about command grab vs command grab either.

I could be wrong with my info. If so, feel free to correct me.

From what I’ve tested EX command grab is throw invincible. It doesn’t have strike invincibility. Non Ex grab has no special properties.

I found EX grab quite useful against people mashing throw after blocking a divekick. It’s also pretty good after a blocked ex lunge.

Command grab vs command grab results in a random winner.

I corrected the wiki on Yun’s EX command grab- it’s throw invincible to recovery, but I left that out of the notes.

IMO, these questions aren’t specific to Yun and should be moved.

Yup…there was a video on the front page months ago that showed this

That can’t be the case. Certain command throws have a certain amount of frames of active frames and invinc. frames. That’s why Abel doing a TT (which has six frames of throw invic. iirc) will beat Gief’s SPD, super, and ultra consistently.

IIRC, the twins have throw invic. on their EX command throw (eight frames). So, EX command throw should consistently beat things that I prior mentioned. If you go to training mode as Gief and record a Yang sweeping then doing EX command throw on wake-up, you should see that SPD, super, and U1 all lose to EX command throw (assuming frame data is correct).

^^ I think they meant two command grabs with no grab invincibility going against each other. Like two Yuns doing command grab at the exact same moment.

That’s what they were referring to. IIRC, the video on SRK’s front page about the random outcome of simultaneous command grabs featured two Seths.

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