Bringing Sexy Back - Nemesis Discussion Thread (Pg.18 and beyond)

nemesis-t-type

#2168

Hey, it just occurred to me. Have we ever explored MODOK as a teammate with nemesis?

I went in the lab today and I was dicking around with his assists, and I was using his shield assist and was at first like “lol, why would I use this over other assists?”

Then I started thinking.

Of you call it after a hard knockdown, they can’t counterattack through it, but tentacle slam has the range to go through it.

Using that as an assist in corners could be a good way to force the opponents hand. Once they realize they can’t just jab or even hyper through it, they’ll jump, which nemesis also has an answer to. Even ignoring the grabs, it’s still a great tool for laying on the pressure.

It also helps against zoning, which is nice,


#2169

This implies people are weird enough to have MODOK and Nemesis on the same team. But I believe this is more about MODOK tech being highly unexplored more than anything else. That, and most MODOKs are on point. Sadly, I don’t really see a lot of synergy betwen those tow. MODOK can cause a lot of hits to rack up easily, so while Nemesis can give him a useful bounce of choice, the DHC damage is probably pretty bad in an extended combo. With Nemesis into MODOK, it MIGHT be good, but I dunno, still seems kind of off to me


#2170

I’ve actually been thinking MODOK and Nemesis on the same team forever now. However, here’s the benefits to MODOK in different slots. In first position, he can extend combos indefinitely with the right amount of execution, the more assists he has access to during the combo, the longer he can get. So, point is good. Nem point is also good. Or, like anyone else, MODOK’s with poorer execution (like me) have an assist for getting in and an assist for extension. But on second, you can do something akin to the Doom swag combo. When you TAC and mess up the hitstun, like with Doom or Trish or Dorm or anyone like that, you can get silly-long stuff. But for Modok most of the hits are cubes, which is awesomepants. Then go into a largely charged beam super for insane damage, turning a successful TAC into a death-touch. Problem is Nemesis is not going to need that, because of his damage output and the ability to create resets almost as reliable as a TAC’s success. As for assists, the beam could always help Nem get in, the barrier is AMAZING for everyone (my vanilla team was entirely a setup for corner pressure with Task and that barrier), and the bomb has unique durability properties and could make some weird incoming shenanigans. But, Nem doesn’t really have much to gain with these assists over others. You can attack through the barrier just as easily as you could command throw, and Nem would still be punished on an incorrect guess, the barrier only takes so many hits. The zoning help is very much appreciated, but a lot of folk better suited to use Nem’s tools can do that as well. So, they both work okay together, but until we find some crazy-ass tech with the two of them, I’mma wait. My thought is actually Haggar/MODOK, or vice versa, has a bit better synergy.

Oh, and on the DHC, the Psionic Blaster Super causes a long knockdown in higher levels of cubage, which can actually be followed up by MODOK’s other hyper. And that puts them at quite a height, which makes DHC’ing to Nemesis sort-of silly. Unless the DHC from the blaster to Nem rockets was INSANELY damaging, Nem’s DHC potential is not great. THC wouldn’t be awful, though.


#2171

I have been thinking MODOK forever as I just plain love the character. The shield assist you also have to consider also exists with characters like Nova and to a lesser extent with characters such as Trish. I would love to see what I can figure out.


#2172

No, it isn’t. Both his hypers scale REALLY bad. Like, Rockets at max scale don’t even crack 100,000. BHR isn’t much better


#2173

Yeah, I’m always surprised at how badly those moves scale…


#2174

I’m aware. Because Hawkeye scales badly too, I always joke that my mains are “Team One Good DHC”. But, on the plus side, probly Modok would not need DHC’s much, because everything should end in a big-ass deathlaser (probly killin’ them) or something involving jamming bomb ( RESETS!!! :smiley: ). So, the team’s not terrible, I just don’t see what makes the synergy anything special.


#2175

Ok guys, this may shock you but…

jL HAS A USE!

What be this use you may ask? Well…actually, it’s the same use as jH, only sneakier: jump ins. First of all, jL will cross people up. It’s hibox hits a little behind Nemesis. The comboing from it is a little off unless you wait till the last second, and go straight into a L attack. And it WILL hit most crouching opponents. It’ll hit crouching Wesker’s and Chris’s, and they duck fairly low. Next, unlike jM or jH, there isn’t that ‘impact’ delay when contact is made. You know how if you hit with jH even if you’re close to the ground, the game will take a half second to show people what’s going on? Yeah, jL doesn’t have that. It’s a very sneaky move too, given how high up it is, it can whiff if you’re not careful. Though this can be used to your advantage: Unlike jH, it’s easier to intentionally whiff the move, then go into the grab. So if you have the opponent pinned down, using jL, you can : Hit high, no crossup, hit high, crossup, hit low after delayed empty jump, grab after empty jump.

Try it out. It really looks useful. Going from high to low that quickly looks significantly harder to block than most of his other options


#2176

I have matches with my sparring buddy soon, I’mma test j.L very very soon.


#2177

Better practice it first, the timing can be tricky


#2178

I don’t normally have training mode at my disposal. It’s his PS3, and he’s usually using it when I am.

Anywho, I had a few matches today. My god that man is good at blocking my mixups. So, I’m glad to say it worked, but not often. Training mode would’ve helped, but under most circumstances the opportunity for crossing up with Nem’s jump ins were unavailable. He plays Trish and Chris as his leads, and they often scoot back into the corner. Most of the time, I either only open him up by intercepting his air movement, shoutouts to j.M, or X-23 unblockable with Nem’s j.H. He up-backed a lot, so I was unable to do much as far as mixing up at the last minute. And sometimes he hit me with a quick jab or raw launcher. I did get him with it like 3 times, though, each led to death or close to it.

My verdict is that people aren’t going to let Nem jump in, and Nem will be pretty open between the jump and the end of the jump, when he actually throws out the j.L. I grant it’s a faster mixup than j.H, but it requires a lockdown assist, something I don’t have on my team.

Also, happy accident, while screwing up the timing, I reasoned that j.L doesn’t combo if it’s done too early, so use it early, why not, and when it hits, command throw that sucka. That worked okay, and I doubt that set-up is ever going to be timed incorrectly, it sort-of sets up itself. Careful of advancing guard, as always.

Mostly what I found out from this session of matches is that Haggar/Ryu is AWESOME. Thing is I wanna use MODOK on my third team. How is Ryu on anchor?


#2179

#1: If people are trying to throw something at a Nemesis jumping at them…why is this a bad thing? It’s actually kind of a good thing, seeing as how they’ll try to be attacking you, and you could just jH instead. Plus, with Deadly Reach pressure

#2: Already talked about command grab setups with jL. It’s usually better to just whiff the move.

#3: Landing 3 hits on someone that blocks your mixups a lot sounds like a success to me

#4: You have Hawkeye arrows, that usually counts as a lockdown assist.

#5: Crossup not always needed. See above mixup options


#2180

I’m aware of all that. Regardless, it’s tough to incorporate j.L into my game. Also, this is 3 times over about 20 wins. And by lockdown assist I mean something super-slow. But yeah, Hawkeye counts for it, but they still seem to have a window, and the only time I worry about them throwing out normals is when I’m waiting until the last second with my jump-in to do an attack.

I do not deny this is useful, it’s just pretty contrary to my normal game plan, so it’s hard to put in.


#2181

a friendly reminder - if you’re staging a comeback, keep the pressure on.

i would have just had a very satisfying comeback with a pixel of life using dash up > Tentacle Slam L into combo, then raw lvl3 on wakeup. if i had just done an angled DR i would have won, but instead i empty jumped for some reason and got [S]a face full[/S] two feet full of plasma.


#2182

FUCK I KNOW DEM FEELS BRO


#2183

Fact: if you are close to someone, 90% of the time, they will wake up with something. This is a universal fighting game standard.


#2184

I am guilty of this


#2185

Is there a video showing the proper spacing and timing for crossup cr. H?


#2186

Sorry, but I am not able to record much about crossup cr. H. Ask someone else who uses it, because half of the time mine messes up anyway, and I’ve been kinda improvising it.

Also, guys, what do you put after you connect a tentacle slam, and how useful is it?

I have a bunch of them, because it’s fun to have variety on a reset followup.

  1. cr.M, cr. H, wall bouncey punch, s.H, S, MMHS in air, (otg to Heavy Launcher Slam if you have an otg assist for extra damage here) OTG Super, DHC if necessary.

  2. s.M (I like the timing of the DR relaunch better after this attack), S, air MMH delay angled DR, land, S, air MMHS, then I can either:
    2a. OTG, rocket projectile into punches. This is the standard unknown afterslam combo, and does good damage.
    2b. The most fun of them, OTG into the active frames of heavy launcher slam, then use the punches super when they’re right above your head. Every shot of the super will hit them while they’re behind your head. Tiny bit less damage than the unknown afterslam, but it’s really awesome looking.
    2c. OTG into the active frames of wall bounce punch, they bounce, you recover, jab and reset, deadly reach for back tech, j.H S for forward tech. This is SURPRISING, and catches everyone off guard I’ve tried it on. It’s unusual, and pretty inefficient, but it’s mind games, and a lot of hits and such before the reset, so it milks the combo for all it’s worth.

  3. New tech circa two hours ago. So same as #2, with s.M, S, air MMH delay angled DR, land, S, air MMH, the classic, but then TAC only up or down, X-23 comes in, I do her dive kick straight down, which should whiff, s.H and S picks them up as they fall, air H, Crescent Scythe Heavy, Talon Attack Light, land Clothesline Rocket or another relaunch assist + her chanrged ankle slice, S, immediately another Crescent Scythe because the hitstun is a bitch right here, then knock that sucka down, ankle slice into super. Off the right starter for Nem, the combo normally does nearly 900k to 1 mill for a single bar, not bad, I’d say. Even cooler, I think, it works off Tentacle Slam for about 800k or a teeny bit more for a single bar as well. I don’t know about you guys, but DAMN, THAT DAMAGE. I know it’s specific for X-23, but probly Trish, Nova, Doom, Modok, people with air dashes who can touch the floor quickly would all be able to use their own fun relaunch combos, or anyone with a whiffable dive move. I’m fine risking the TAC counter here, because there’s already been a decent amount of damage after the reset, and swag and mad damage beckons like no other. Shoutouts to the X-23 subforum and Hikarihoshi for figuring it out with Nova instead of Nemesis (Nova’s is easier to input for X-23 and has a better DHC by far, but mine does a bit more damage without the DHC, and can work off a command throw)


#2187

Just saying, after Tentacle Slam and the DR relaunch, instead of going straight to S I’m pretty sure you could do st./cr. H into Clothesline Rocket, then relaunch from there.