Bryan in 2013

bryan

#1

I am making this thread to specifically discuss the buffs/nerf’s bryan is recieving in the 2013 patch, my opinions, and just to see what other people think about it.

Buff’s/Nerf’s:
Far HK - Startup 17F->14F

  • Considered midair from 9th frame and on
    This is good, I actually recently started using this poke to hit predictable lows, like vega and rolento’s slide, so I like that they made it a bit easier to use this poke in those situations, with more consistent success. Not huge but might be more usable in more situations, like against sweeps.

• cr. LK - Startup 5F->4F
Now bryan’s only Low IMHO, not usable as a poke really but its a nice little buff, ill take it.

• cr. MP - Startup 11F->7F

  • Reduced hit stun by 4F (On hit +7)
    Its nice to see this actually become a much more viable move in general, I found myself pretty much never using cr.MP in combo’s or as a poke, hopefully this change will make the move much more usable in general.

• cr. MK - Startup 11F->9F

  • Hurt box reduced
    If you asked me, I still think cr.MK is ass, its the crap hit-box, the hurt-box was also pretty bad, so I like that it was reduced, and atleast this a faster move, but I still think its one of the worst low’s in the game, it can’t hit any side of any barn.

• cr. HP - Active hit frames increased by 2 (active for 5 frames)

  • Hit opponents behind as well
  • Startup 10F->7F
    Wow. Just, wow. Ok so the start-up has actually made this a much more viable anti-air, but the active frame increase? the hit-box hits farther behind? Just wow, I can tell you right now, this coupled with CADC will make for a much more solid, consistent anti-air game for bryan.

• cr. HK - Reduced frames by 6 (On block -9F)
I don’t like this, bryan’s trip was already pretty meh in my opinion, but this makes it strictly a “only use when you know for a fact it will hit” move, like against kaz’s mist step or something. Bryan’s low game was already trash, this pretty much knocked off the only far reaching low bryan had.

• Mach Breaker - Startup 13F->8F

  • Reduced push back on block
  • Hit box reduced
  • Reduced active hit frames by 2F (active for 3 frames)
    While some people see this as a nerf, I see this as a buff. I never raw mach-breaker, unless I wanted to chip someone out, so the hit-box might make that a bit more annoying to accomplish, but the buff to the startup for me actually is a buff imo, the reason being that I recently figured out that I could CADC during juggles to build extra meter, and this startup buff coupled with the cr.hp buff will only make that much easier.

• EX Mach Breaker - Startup 17F->11F

  • Reduced block stun by 12F (On block -15)
  • Reduced push back on block
    Huge start-up buff, this makes the move much more viable as a reversal, but with the extreme block stun and push back nerf’s, this will be a total high risk/high reward move now, I didn’t use it pre-patch, I don’t plan on using it that much post-patch.

• Chopping Elbow - Reduced block stun by 7F (On block -5)
Huge nerf, all of bryan’s far reaching pokes/strings are interruptable, or - on block, and with his elbow now joining that club, I see this as a pretty big hit to bryan’s long reaching poking game.

• M/H Fisherman’s Slam - Will not hit midair opponents
I only used these as anti-air’s against gief and hugo, sometimes jack, because sometimes my enemy’s would empty jump to avoid the lp.fisherman, but now that bryan’s fisherman and cr.HP are even better anti-airs, this isn’t a big deal really.

• Fisherman’s Slam - Active hit frames increased by 2 (active for 6 frames)
This is good, if you guys have ever done a fisherman’s when your enemy was literally right on top of your character and for whatever reason it barely missed on the first frame, and they were able to get a jump in on you, you will agree that having some extra active frames on this anti-air will definantly make it a much better. Also if you hit them on the new 5-6th active frames, you can follow up easier, giving bryan even more ability to combo afterwards.

Overall Opinions:
Bryan overall has become a more solid character, his normals and anti-airs+special’s have all been buffed, but his long range poking game has taken a hit, this is a big deal because I personally thought bryan’s strength was his pokes hit-boxes, and while his normals got better, none of his long reaching pokes or strings were made uninterruptable, or atleast neutral on block, so if I was to say whether bryan was better or worse in this patch, I would actually say hes worse due to most of his practical and most used moves getting nerfed, and his least used moves being buffed. While having more solid normals, he lost his ability to high/low (which was already pretty poor imo) and I feel like with no strong mix-ups, and all of his far reaching pokes/strings being negative, all bryan is now is a poke/whiff punish type character, and his new AA ability’s, but with his long reaching pokes all being poor I don’t know if I am going to continue to main bryan, I am seriously looking at switching back to julia, or seeing how well alisa plays after the patch hits.

I would like to hear what your opinion is about bryan in 2013.

Edit:
It turns out since his m/h fisherman’s don’t hit opponents mid-air, you can’t combo with it… well every single BnB I used just got nerfed, and the only way you can do any meaningfull damage is by using meter.


#2

I’m a little saddened by the m/h fisherman’s slam nerf, since it was always super fun for combos. I like that he’ll seem more solid, but I don’t really agree with the nerf to his elbow, everything else I can deal with. (Look at me, talking like I actually know what I’m talking about)


#3

I think the chopping elbow nerf isn’t so bad, you still get a fat combo on hit.
M/h fisherman’s slam nerf is a fair trade for better AA i guess.
Reduced frames on cr.HK I’m a little confused. Which frames are reduced? Startup, active, recovery?


#4

Think is I didn’t use the elbow as a mix-up, and anyone who was any good knew to block it like 90% of the time, I used it to get in on opponents, pressure in and out of their footsie range, now its a risk, and with his other options being crap and his BnB’s getting nerfed, he just seems much less effective overall.


#5

Yeah the nerf to the elbow was not needed, also reduced push back on the mach breaker makes it more punishable, only a few people can punish it now but after the patch its not going to be that safe anymore. This and the nerf to the M/H fisherman slam is killing Bryan I hope they reconsiders on some of these, and cr HK is -15 on block at least that what i have read at GameFAQs forums, so 6 reduced frames means its going to be -9 so its a buff.


#6

has st.lk always hit low?


#7

Yeah, I’m pretty sure.


#8

Huge buff to anti-air ability.
I would have preferred a buff to s lk than c lk, c lk does hit low but s lk shuts down shoto c mk.
I am slightly concerned with the reduced hitbox on mach punch. Sometimes it is weird and does not connect after a gatling juggle even when it “looks” like it should.
In addition to the comments made above, I do not see a buff to damage, so overall I see the risk has increased while the reward has stayed the same.


#9

I was interested in having bryan on my team as an anchor…but now he cant do fisherman slam combos…what are his combos going to look like now? (I cant really test anything since im on PC and I have 1.6 =/ could someone list his optimal hit confirm, punish, and tag xx > bryan combos? I would really appreciate it.


#10

Looking at the other thread, someone else is doing a combo thread here shortly. I don’t think any of the changes have affected Bryan’s bnb’s except for lowering juggle potential with mp, hp fisherman’s hook to 0, for the record, so your combos are still going to look the same, just without the ones that used fisherman’s hook in the middle: you’re still going to abuse cl mp into one two body blow (s lp, s mp, s lp) with a fisherman’s slam follow up, into c lp s mp c hk for hard knockdown, gatling combo into mach breaker, cl mp c hp into fisherman’s slam with the above follow up, etc.


#11

The main change for me is that Bryan has gone from the only character with no crossup to having one of the best crossups in the game. Also, the fact that cr. LK > cl. MP is a completely safe chain is nuts. No other chain has frame data like that, it’s insane. That makes hit-confirming incredibly easy and scaling efficient, off a 4-frame normal that hits low.

Bryan has a whole bunch of game now. His damage potential is considerably lower, but he has more situations and spaces where he’s effective now. Very interesting.


#12

bob has a better chain, he can link combo off of his

idk how to hitconfirm off of LK -> cl MP ?? just go into boost combo?


#13

There are many things that I would highly question about the accuracy of this post. Bryan was not the only character with no crossup, he certainly is far from the best one (especially given his optimal range vs his crossup range), as far as safe confirms that start low (not necessarily a good thing in this game given raw launch) Bryan is certainly not the only character with this. Although his is good, it’s not the greatest thing since sliced bread.


#14

Regarding the crossups, there may be one or two characters that I’m forgetting that didn’t have crossups in 2012, but there certainly weren’t more than that. Even Balrog had a crossup.

Regarding the crossup, his optimal range may be at the tip of st. LP range, but his crossup is still extremely strong because he can hit same-side or other-side off the same jump distance, depending on whether he goes for j. HP or j. MK. This is a strong ability that not a lot of characters get (or if they do, it’s extremely finicky. With Bryan it’s easy).

Regarding the chains, I should have clarified, I meant cross rush chains. Lots of characters have safe chains that start low, but I can’t think of any other character that has a cross rush that starts low and is safe at point blank. This isn’t the be all and end all of the character, but Bryan is otherwise a character who doesn’t have great options at point blank range (as you were implying, he’s best at mid-range).

Also, his cl. LK > cl. MP chain isn’t launchable because cl. LK is a standing move, though it hits low.


#15

Bob does as was mentioned… and its the same. I think Marduk’s might also be safe, need to test further.


#16

Just tested it since I saw in the change list it had chopping elbow listed as -5 and also as -1.

I can confirm that it’s -1, not -5. So, overhead away.