C-Ken vs A-Sakura who wins?


#1

guys, who do you think wins
kinda like C -blanka vs C- Sagat in the other thread.
analyze this!

C ken rc funky kicks, footsies, crossup , quick dp

vs A Sak’s rc’s , st rh, far range grab and that CC

who beats who here??


#2

ken dizzies other characters pretty quickly, and sakura has 60 stun points, so that’s a factor. sakura really doesn’t have a good reversal move outside of activating CC and reversal RC’s (which is pretty tough to get consistently), so ken can play a lot of his close standing rh option tree games off a knockdown. also ken just does more damage per hit plus has more vitality points than sakura.

i’d give the edge to ken, with like a 6-4 ratio in ken’s favor.


#3

…till ken gets bopped in the grill by sakura’s evil cc


#4

I’d say C Ken wins 7-3.

Ken can just stand outside her S.Roundhouse range and counter anything she does. Her RC’s are that much of a factor outside the corner…and Ken has a great corner escape in his air Hurricane.
Another key factor in this matchup is that Sakura can never, ever cross him up.


#5

i would actually give this match to sakura

sakura can s.rh pretty much all day. wait for rc kick and counter poke with s. rh, mash that shit… anti-air ken easy… ken has to knock her down with sweep to get in without getting kicked in the face and thats really hard to do, seems like guesswork, he’s got that damn slow roll… if she has meter and he whiffs anything he gets customed easy. uh, thats about it.


#6

If Ken wants to stay out of Sakura’s RH range, doesn’t that just give her space to whiff dive kicks for free?


#7

You can never just dive kick for free. At the very least the C Ken player could just wiff Short funky kick, tiger knee air hurricane and hadouken to build meter at a faster rate. Also, Sakura jumping back and dive kicking over and over will just allow Ken to find an opening to start guard crushing or throw or hit. It’s just never a real good idea to let your opponent know your very next move.

Same goes for S.Roundhouse, Ken has lots of trouble punishing it and it’s Sakura’s main weapon outside of her CC but you can’t just abuse it all day. Just a simple Ken dashing back throwing a jab hadouken then dashing or walking in will stop her roundhouse somewhat. In the corner S.Roundhouse can get nasty though…


#8

Sakura can kick Ken after he whiffs a funny kick.

I don’t know about you guys, but I have a lot of trouble against Cammy or Sakura walking back and forth and pressing roundhouse.

The thing against Sakura is you really have to always be on the lookout for her roll. The data is actually quite good. 112 pixels, 31 frames, 4 recovery.

Trying to throw lots of hadoukens against her with C-Ken gets me killed quite often. Even the LP hadoukens. Ken’s fireball just isn’t that good.

Anybody have any other ways around Cammy or Sakura’s s.HKs? Other than dp+LP as well. I had to play a not-so-good 360 stick with an unreliable down-right direction today, and it really pissed me off. :mad: Just anti-air dp was out of the question, nevermind walk up, psychic dp+LP with Ken or run up, juggling dp with Akuma.

I was getting pretty good mileage with Ken f+HK, RC funny kick. Anything else I can do in this matchup?


#9

lp. shoryuken for when you absolutely have to stuff a ho.


#10

Ken vs. Sak

Try to bait a s. rh or something that leaves her slightly open and jump in with a jab. Shoto j. jabs are very good at getting in, and since IIRC Shoto s. fierce is 3 frame startup like Sak’s s. fierce, you can do j. jab, s. fierce xx short Funky Kick or s. fierce xx lvl2 ShoryuReppa, cancel into jab Roll, Fierce SRK or Jab SRK, lvl1 ShinryuKen (if in the corner).

^

That was just an example of a theoretically possible combo. To be honest, I’m not even sure if that works unless the j. jab is timed really deep. The real reason I gave the example of the j. jab is because it sticks out and it can’t be anti-air’ed by Sak’s late c. or s. fierce IIRC (haven’t played SF in a while). Once you get in with the s. jab, you can start mixing it up. Possible things I like to do are:

blocked close s. fierce…
-gives u option to dash in and throw because of the Shoto s. fierce recovery
-you can c. forward xx lvl2+ ShoryuReppa to catch em off gaurd if they try to retaliate after the s. fierce
-you can roll after the fierce and throw them or worse.
-you can RC short Funky Kick after the blocked s. fierce to punish any retaliation
-you can cancel the close s. fierce xx short Drop Kick (SRK+Short), which then leads to more mindgames since that move’s recovery is pretty crazy and misleading
-you can do a crossup forward then do a guard crush string such as s. strong, s. short, c. rh xx jab Hadoken (note: s. short gives good frame advantage IIRC, so the c. rh may actually beat some retaliation that Sak attempts)

Anyway, I think once you get in on Sak, it’s not that hard to confuse her. CC’s don’t get you out of everything, and desperation CC’s don’t get you much of anything if your opponent is smart.

About Sak keeping away, I don’t mind Sak players who play the divekick game. I never thought that was a good tactic since it can be beat by an anticipated sj. Shoto fierce or rh.

Finally, against her s. rh, try anticipating it, let her whiff it and create a jumpin opportunity. Another possible theoretical solution that I haven’t ever tried is letting her whiff it and punishing it with Ken’s >+rh. Finally, rolling through an anticipated one doesn’t seem that bad. If desperation arises, just RC Short Funky Kick that shit down. I’ve seen ShadyK do it IIRC, and it worked for him.


#11

ken doesn’t need to jump in this matchup. The only time he should is after a knockdown or if he’s in a short jump groove. And people, don’t forget about ken’s s.short


#12

Geese, do you post fake strategies on purpose to get people to have flame wars with you? :lol:

Ken is at -8 after a close s.HP. If anything, do meaty close s.HK, dash, throw instead.

I don’t think anybody does jumping jabs with Ken. If anything, jumping shorts are better. Still no CvS1 cheapness though.

Sakura far s.HK is a quick whiffing move too. Ken can’t jump in on it without Sakura getting a free d.HP. When Sak whiffs the RC fireball is when you want to jump instead.


#13

Ken should only purposely wiff funky kick from half screen or farther…same with Sakura and her jab fireball( she needs to be real far to wiff that against Ken).

Ken should mostly throw jab hadoukens from near full screen to mix things up, and to stop Sakura from walking in and S.Roundhouse whenever she feels like it.
RC Jab Hadouken’s are actually decent to mix up with RC Short funky kick. I can’t count the number of times I was wiffing short funky kick from far away and when Cammy/Sak/Blanka etc. got closer I just did RC jab Hadouken and they S.roundhouse/C.Fierced right into it.

Ken’s s.short is definetly important in this matchup(almost as much as it is against Cammy). It sets up his RC’s and S./F.Roundhouse. S.Short makes your opponent stick in one place so you can blast them with a S./F.Roundhouse or funky kick without having to worry about her walking out of the way and punishing whatever you wiffed. Because you can’t really use it to punish Sak’s pokes, finding ways to make Sak block or walk into S./F.Roundhouse is real important to control space.
Ken’s Roundhouse’s are still very effective, even in matchup’s where it doesn’t punish his opponents best poke. Just use it smartly and accept the fact it will get punished sometimes…which is fine as long as it’s doing it’s job in controlling space.

If you know when your opponent is going to walk in S.roundhouse you, just RC Short funky kick instead of jab dragon. You don’t get a knockdown but it’s 10000x safer…


#14

:lol: i think he does. yeah, when u get a knockdown do meaty s.hk. If it hits walk up and do a s.fierce into super, which all combos. if the meaty s.hk is block do s.shortxxxfunky kick OR run in c.lk, s.lkxxxfunky kick. s.short is essential in this matchup. i hardly see anyone besides me and very few other people use it.

Edit: i 4got to add that when u r within saks s.hk range, throw out random jabs so that u hit her leg b4 the hitting frames from her roundhouse start


#15

Of course, if you’re randomly jabbing, she could sweep you, though I dunno how many Sakura players like to commit to the sweep…

Nothing much to add that hasn’t been said already. Except that this is about C Ken vs A Sakura, so running and low jumps aren’t in the equation…


#16

from what i hear u cant rc that funky kick in front of her when she got that meter because she can go right into the sho sho’s with a fierce, reaches mad distance and gets you caught up in that 70% drainage of life
and whiff dp’s while she has meter so now u know not to do that silly shit when shes fully gauged…

any of u guys think that daigo’s C ken has trouble against bas’ A sak?? i think he switched out chun for ken cuz she’s got bad matchups against a sak…after what happened at last sbo w/ tokido what do u guys think?

>>>i like this matchup for a C ken with a strong ass ground game, if your jumping around like this is lame ass xboxlive you’ll get owned up 4 freeeeeeeeee

a-saks no push over though
her roll catches alot of ppl by suprise i know it caught me from a far …roll+activate


#17

Yeah in this matchup u need to have a very strong ground game to win. Only jump when u r 150% sure u won’t catch an AA. Ken has the tools to win this matchup, but he has to watchout for random CC activations


#18

I give this match to Sakura 4 out of 7.


#19

after playing some good c-ken players, with a-sak, i learned after a while that giving ken space is not a good idea, she has to stay at least within hk range and then thats where she has the edge.

if at sweep range you all know that hk owns, but also if at sweep range ken does funky kick or hadouken, cc will go through the fireball and you get your custom, funky kick im like 90% sure you can shoshosho. if he rolls you can cc or throw, and jumps you can hp that shit.

im a sak player so i can only defend sak cause thats what i know.

also i never abuse rc cause if ken recovers faster… or if you trade hits… i found that out.

mixing things up and mind games allow for error, and alot of ken players do dp on wakeup or whatever, just be careful.

someone needs to tell me if theres a way to build meter safely with her without running away cause that aint gonna help.

o yea and stay close!


#20

build meter safely? thats a hard one… because you said ont abuse RC… but the only thing i can think of is RC mk hurricane can Ken duck hk hurricane? so youve got the edge with feame data… and then just hope… or try to get a knock down, fake crossup, c.lk, c.lk, lk xx hp uppercut to build meter… and hope he doesnt quickstands… =/