C.Viper punishment bible [block punish/situational analysis]

c-viper

#1

Hey guys. This is something that you would usually see for a game like Tekken, but seeing as how C.Viper has to take less damage to die, it would serve well to know any time that you are supposed to have free damage. There are some things which I am not listing because they should be obvious (ie. punishing a blocked shoryuken with a fierce feint fierce combo), and I WILL list them eventually just so we have a completed compendium as to what C.Viper can and can’t punish in the game.

All frame data that I am using is being taken from the SRK Wiki page @ http://www.shoryuken.com/wiki/index.php/Street_Fighter_IV

Note #1: Damage annotations based off ultra meter being maxed (damage annotations will come in the future, or with your cooperation, much quicker.)
Note #2: For the frame tight punishes, use priority linking to ensure that your input comes out as fast as possible.
Note #3: This is composed of two part: one is block punishment, the other is how to get around certain moves that might seem spammable, such as Honda splashes, in order to get the most damage possible out of it.
Note #4: I’m copy-pasting this off a notepad file in which I have been updating for some time, and there might be some formatting kinks which I will address later on.

Part 1: Block Punishment All of Viper’s options after blocking specific moves that might not be obvious in how to punish them.

Balrog (Boxer):
b,f + hold punch (Overhead) - ease of depends on button pressed
[list]
[]jab version - -5 (allows frame tight c.strong into knuckle as well as a c.jab into ultra)
[
]strong version - -6 (allows straight up ultra)
[]fierce version - -8 at least (allows c.fierce into ex Seismo, c.fwd into strong knuckle, etc.)
[
]EX version - -5 (allows frame tight c.strong into knuckle as well as a c.jab into ultra)
[/list]

Cammy:
Cannon Spike (dp + k)
[list]
[]All versions, point blank - dash into c.fierce feint c.fierce into whatever, also dash into ultra, as well as standing ultra, and a strong seismo into whatever
[
]All versions, character space away - same as above, except that you must do c.fierce feint c.fwd into whatever)
[/list]

Zangief
Banishing Flat (Green Hand) - Although it seems obvious to some, not everyone knows that you can punish them on hit too.
[list]
[]Banishing Flat, all versions minus EX, on hit - Gief is at least -5 (jab version is -5, others are -6 and -7). You get a free s.strong, c.strong xx strong TK combo (frametight) or opt for close s.jab x2 into c.strong xx strong TK due to it being 4 frames)
[
]Banishing Flat, on block, reccomended - Gief usually does either jab or EX green hand. Jab hand starts at -7, and the rest are all punishable with c.fierce, but to be safe, use s.strong, c.strong xx strong TK or an ultra
[/list]

M.Bison (Dictator):
Psycho Crusher
[list]
[]EX Version, Point Blank - grants you a free jab super
[
]EX Version, character distance away - grants you a strong knuckle into super
[/list]

Scissor Kicks: short version is 0 on block, while forward and RH versions are punishable.
[list]
[]Forward Scissor, character distance away - grants you c.strong into strong knuckle, or c.short (to ensure range) into ultra
[
]RH Scissor - frametight c.fierce into knuckle/EX Seismo or just throw out an ultra
[*]EX Scissor - frametight c.fierce into knuckle/EX Seismo or just throw out an ultra
[/list]

E.Honda:
Headbutt
[list]
[*]Fierce headbutt - gives you a strong TK into super, 1 frame. Must block standing.
[/list]

Fei Long:
Chicken Wing - hard to tell which version is which, but he can punish one of them
[list]
[*]Short version - is at -4, which gives you only a c.jab into ultra, with 1 frame of timing
[/list]

Rekka Ken - all of them are punishable, but the jab version gives some problems.
[list]
[]Jab version (first rekka) - -4, which gives you c.jab into ultra, frame tight again. If blocked point blank and crouching, you get c.jab s.short c.strong xx strong TK.
[
]Strong version (first rekka) - at least -5, feels like -6. c.strong is free.
[]Fierce version (first rekka) - -8, frametight c.fierce but it’s doable.
[
]Second rekka - c.strong works to punish all of them on block, as well as Ultra.
[]Third Rekka - fierce feint fierce combo, Ultra. It’s -18 (-23 for fierce version), so anything except EX Seismo.
[
]EX Rekka (first rekka) - same as fierce rekka
[] EX Rekka (second rekka) - same as above
[
]EX Rekka (last rekka) - same as above
[/list]

Blanka:
Blanka Ball (punch version)
[list]
[*]Ball, any version - Reversal strong/fierce/EX Seismo into superjump late Burning Kick
[/list]

Upwards Ball - you can punish with certain Seismos on block depending on where you blocked it, and sometimes, on hit, too.
[list]
[]Upwards Ball, any version, blocked point blank - punish with EX Seismo
[
]Upwards Ball, any version, blocked above waist - punish with strong Seismo or EX Seismo
[]Upwards Ball, any version, HIT above waist - punish with EX Seismo
[
]Upwards Ball, any version, HIT point blank - 1f punish with non reversal jab super, hold jab (dunno why but it works for me)
[/list]

Ultra
[list]
[*]Ultra, slightly past point blank (or botched c.short/c.fwd ultra attempt) - block the first hit low, and Ultra while Blanka drops. Risky.
[/list]

Ryu
c.rh - Ryu’s sweep can generally be punished except at full max range.
[list]
[]c.rh, point blank - fierce feint c.forward xx strong TK, c.fierce xx EX Seismo, or ultra
[
]c.rh, 2 character lenghts away - c.forward xx super, c.fwd xx strong TK (can occasionally whiff the TK), strong TK
[*]c.rh, just inside max range - strong TK does the job.
[/list]

Ken
c.rh - The safest c.rh out of all the shotos. His is -5, which leaves us with…
[list]
[]c.rh, up to about .9 - 1.0 character distance away - punish with super, fierce version
[
]c.rh, point blank - punish with c.short xx Ultra or super. c.strong also works but knuckle will NOT connect after.
[/list]

Akuma
c.rh - The fastest c.rh, and the best one in terms of speed/recovery. It is -6, however, so…
[list]
[*]c.rh, up to about 1.5 character distance away - punish with Ultra.
[/list]

Part 2: Getting around annoying moves Some moves in the game have the capacity to piss people off due to their nature. This section is going to be used to depict certain situations that you may face in your matches and how to get some damage out of them in ways that other characters can’t, and how to maximize your damage when others also can punish.

Ryu/Akuma/Ken
Using Air Hurricane Kick to escape the corner:
[list]
[*]Air HK out of corner - While they are in the air, do one dash, and then use a fierce Seismo. You’ll pop them in the ground as they land, and you can cancel out a TK to gain position
[/list]

Akuma
Teleporting to escape situations - Viper can KILL Akuma easily here.
[list]
[]Akuma dodges a well-timed throw with a teleport - EX Seismo if he teleports behind Viper, Fierce if he teleports in front of her.
[
]Predict Akuma will teleport out of a mixup - superjump in his direction and nail him when he comes out with a j.rh, fierce feint fierce into knuckle for 700 stun.
[*]Predict Akuma will teleport backwards (to HIS back) - EX Thunder Knuckle will reach in time. Downside from this is that if you predict the wrong side, you will lose meter. Plus side = EX TK, dash ultra is a lot of damage.
[/list]

Honda
Dealing with Splashes
[list]
[]All Splashes - throwing out a low hit such as c.short or c.forward will cause the first hit to whiff, and you can punish the landing
[
]Short splash, blocked any distance - hold back and when Honda lands, fierce feint fierce into whatever, or ultra
[]Forward splash, blocked anywhere - do an EX Seismo to go through the second part, follow with anything. Ultra will whiff, and Honda lands behind Viper.
[
]RH Splash, blocked anywhere - wait until he lands far away and punish with anything
[]EX Splash, point blank - after the block, do an EX Seismo in the OPPOSITE direction to nail him as he comes down, and follow with a crossup air BK into ultra. Ultra while EX Splash comes down will whiff as Honda lands behind Viper.
[
]EX Splash, blocked late - after the block, do an EX Seismo in the original direction to nail him as he comes down, and follow with a crossup air BK into ultra. Ultra while EX Splash comes down will whiff as Honda lands behind Viper.
[/list]

Neutralizing jump up fierce zoning - This blow seems to beat all and any of Viper’s aerial options. It does have ONE big major weakness, and it is that the vertical hitbox on it is horrible (below), which means that Honda won’t be able to hit your crouching hits, and he can’t block low after he does it.
[list]
[]Honda does jump up fierce, 1/4 to 1/3 screen away - Smack him with an EX Seismo to knock him out of the air, or if you’re looking for it, dash forward when he jumps and if he tosses out the fierce, throw out an ultra. He won’t be able to block it due to tripguard laws. If dashing early enough, you can tack on a c.rh or c.forward into knuckle.
[
]Honda does jump up fierce, close to Viper - c.rh, c.forward, c.short… you get the picture. Anything that has to be blocked low.
[/list]

Dhalsim
Knocking down Sim after one of his early air hits.
[list]
[*]Sim does jump back fierce to smack you on the ground - measure the distance and smack him with a Seismo. He can’t block when he lands since he attacked.
[/list]

M. Bison (Dictator)
Dealing with his corner presure
[list]
[]Blocked Short Scissor Kick, Short Scissor Kick - slightly late EX Seismo will go through both hits and you get out of the corner as well as a combo.
[
]Blocked Short Scissor Kick, c.short xx scissor kick - short BK will dodge the c.short and strike as a counterhit if they buffered the scissor kick incorrectly, and it will get blocked if they did it right.
[/list]

Punishing Teleports
[list]
[]Bison dodges a throw or meaty c.short/s.short/s.strong with teleport (midscreen) - EX Seismo (frametight) or strong knuckle if teleporting backwards, and fierce feint fierce combo if teleporting behind Viper since the range on it is limited.
[
]Predict Bison will teleport backwards (to HIS back) - EX Thunder Knuckle will reach in time. Downside from this is that if you predict the wrong side, you will lose meter. Plus side = EX TK, dash ultra is a lot of damage, as well as EX TK, walk up c.fierce xx EX Seismo into whatever.
[/list]

Getting around Headstomp
[list]
[]Headstomp attempt (anywhere minus point blank) - backdash out. If point blank, Bison will stomp on Viper’s backdash and knock her down. Making the stomp whiff, you can punish with c.forward into knuckle, or Ultra. Be careful, because if it was a Devil’s Reverse, he will be able to block the ultra due to it having very little ground recovery.
[
]Headstomp blocked, Bison goes far - Seismo in the appropriate distance
[]Headstomp blocked, Bison goes for a punch - EX Seismo goes through all of the followups, even the EX version, and it will also smack him if he lands by doing nothing. Only precaution here is Bison sneaking behind you with a jump.
[
]Headstomp hit (Non EX), Bison goes for a punch - same as above.
[*]Headstomp hit (Non EX, early), Bison goes far away - EX Seismo will take care of any distance that is not max distance.
[/list]

El Fuerte
Getting out of his mixups and punishing
[list]
[*]Tortilla/Fajita Buster/Splashes (meaty) - EX Seismo cancelled out dodges the hit/grab and allows you to do fierce feint fierce combo after without much risk of having the seismo whiffing due to a crossup
[/list]

As always, more to come soon.


#2

Do you have to block Blanka balls high to punish?


#3

No. All of Blanka’s balls can be punished regardless of how you block them since you are using Seismo.

The reason why Honda’s headbutt has to be blocked high is that when you low block, it pushes them away slightly and the strong TK hits somewhat late.


#4

If there are things here that you feel should be included, please let me know. I haven’t even tried to put things from characters such as Gouken because I don’t get enough playing time against him, so I’d appreciate the input, especially for the second part. =)


#5

Good shit. The Honda data will be especially useful.


#6

Wow good shit! You can also punish Akuma’s teleports with a well timed EX TK if they get predictable, same thing with jump back fire ball if they decide to air FB when positioned 1/2 screen away from him. Also IIRC instant BK’s and strong TK beat Cammy’s SA if timed right.

Edit: Can this get a sticky? real talk


#7

Tr@pzt@r: I don’t consider EX TK to be ‘punishing’ the teleport. It’s more like predicting. I have done it several times in the past, vs. Akuma AND Bison but I keep opting for the more reliable reaction-time ones since they are much more practical in-match, but for completeness’ sake, I’ll add it. Downside from it is that you lose an EX bar when it’s not really necessary, but if you’re just looking for damage, it works well.

I’d love to get this stickied. =)


#8

yeah, sticky this ASAP…hmmm, how can you tell what punch boxer used for his overhead punch…


#9

I can’t tell them apart for the most part, but the fierce one takes a long ass time to come out. Safest choice is just to always do priority link c.strong into knuckle or priority link c.jab xx ultra.


#10

on the top of my head, i would like to add…

shoto’s…
you can EX seismo/EX BK in between a cr. mk into FB, cr. mk should be blocked at max distance

sagat…after a blocked taigani (2 hits), st. mp, cr. mpxxmp tk

elf: blocked splash, cr. mkxxmp tk


#11

This thread is awesome, please sticky.

EDIT: Nvm about Bison’s Devil Reverse


#12

Good stuff Gandido! This thread should definitely be stickied.

Gonna be doing the same thing for DJ when Tekken:BR comes out on console? :stuck_out_tongue:


#13

awesomeeee thread, i think adding a character to character ultra punishment would rock too


#14

Explain?


#15

maybe he meant which ultra’s viper can interrupt with her own ultra to punish?


#16

Cammy, Balrog, and Sakura can always be beaten. Especially when people try to chip you on wake up. Blanka, if close, you can backdash and Ultra, or if they are far you can do it as he rolls along the ground towards you.


#17

I believe headstomp can be punished by Seismo after block(I saw Marn do this against Yipes) but I think it’s a bit situational since they have to be flying backwards afterwards?

EDIT:

Rose: If I’m reading the frame data correctly, Rose’s light Spiral can be punished with FFF (!!!) because it leaves her at -8 and Viper’s cr.fierce comes out in 8 frames and when I tested it out, it seemed to work. Medium Soul Spiral can be punished with cr.mp(leaves her at -6) into whatever. Fierce version can be punished with cr.lp Ultra because it leaves her at -4? However, I don’t think Spiral can be punished if it is done from a safe range.

EX Version can be punished with cr.mp.(leaves her at -6)

Feel free to correct anything.

DOUBLE EDIT: NVM about Honda, you already did mentioned it, haha.


#18

Bison Headstomp CAN be punished by Seismo on block unless Bison opts to go behind Viper post stomp, which might lead into a free ultra off a level 2 focus attack. This is only if the seismo is not an EX. Also, some Bison headstomps CAN be punished by EX Seismo afterwards - EVEN ON HIT.

The punch followups (including the EX one that does two hits) can all be broken through by EX Seismo. Basically, Bison is losing when he stomps you if he opts to try to attack. He has to make it as ambiguous to whiff/attack as possible in order for you to try and mess up your EX Seismo input.

Bison can not block after stomp whiffs either. What you CAN do is backdash the stomp to make sure it whiffs, and smack it with an ultra. =D Only problem with this is that, if they did a Devil’s Reverse instead, they’ll be able to block… Maybe c.strong, c.short/c.strong xx knuckle or Ultra as a confirmable punish?

I’ll add this last tidbit in a Bison headstomp section.


#19

I think I read this from DevilJin’s Blanka matchup posts or somewhere else, but if Blanka does a rainbow roll, you can focus it, dash forward, and punish him when he lands with a FFF combo.

Edit: You can also punish with a point blank EX Seismo > Ultra.


#20

Ah, okay, gotcha, thanks!