C.Viper Q&A: Quick questions here please!

Hey there, after trying to find a sub for a while, I finally settled for C.Viper. I want to learn how to properly rushdown and mixup. Rog is a very straightforward and heavily footsies oriented.

Anyway, here’s my question: In what order should I learn Viper’s techniques?
I can already do her basic BnBs, Seismo to Burning Kick and double AA HP TK, consistent LP TK feints and Seismo feints.
Should I learn FP TK feints first? Or her okizeme/sort of vortex wake up game? Or Instant Air burning kick?

Thanks in advance.

This was roughly my overall scheme for learning Viper when I first started:

  1. Bread and butter / basic combos
    [LIST]
    []c.LK, s.LK, c.MP xx MP TK
    [
    ]cs.MP, c.MP xx MP TK
    []c.MP, c.MP xx MP TK
    [
    ]seismo > SJ BK
    [/LIST]
  2. Basic Tech
    [LIST]
    []Seismo feints
    [
    ]raw TK feints
    []Instant BK
    [
    ]1/2 screen cross up BK
    [/LIST]
  3. Intermediate Tech
    [LIST]
    []c.LK/c.MK/c.MP/cs.HP/c.HP xx HP TK fient
    [
    ]Seismo chains
    [*]Seismo SJ TK feints
    [/LIST]
  4. Advanced Tech / Combos
    [LIST]
    []Fierce Feint Fierce
    [
    ]SJC Ultra 1/2
    [*]meterless FADC
    [/LIST]
    Take what you will from this. It’s just a really basic outline. After or during learning this sort of stuff I would also look into:
    Safe jumps (from sweep, forward and back throw, etc)
    Oki (burn kick mixups left/right/high/low/grab)
    Option selects (Viper has some basic OSes and pretty technical OSes)
    Character specifics (unblockables/reverse blockables aka hardtoblockables)

Another thing I would suggest is committing to memory the little things:

Which air normals can be cancelled into burn kick
Anti-air normals (fs.HK, cs.MK, etc)
Using cs.HP to force stand
Viper is airborne for a little bit during f.HK
frame data

Good Luck!

Wow, this is EXTREMELY helpful. I really appreciate this, thanks!!

I’ve been reading all this fun stuff about instant burn kicks n such. I understand the methodology and such. “How too” but the actually getting my finger to do it is messing me up.

More so, I’ma pad user with very, very, personalized set up. But I’m having trouble getting my thumb to do:d: :db::b::uf: + :hk:. motion. I always either hit the :u: or :ub: before the :uf:.

Any easy tips to just get this to work? I see someone said, :qcb::ub::u::uf:, but I don’t understand how the game won’t make Viper go back. I’d like to do it like this, but I can’t seem to get the forward momentum from the :uf:.

For the longest time, I’ve seen roundhouse (the anti-air heel) connect after ex seismo, a high fierce tk anti air, and even after ex seismo > burn kick > heel. I usually get close roundhouse to come out which doesn’t do anything. I do know some of this is character specific. What am I doing wrong here?

Just a matter of spacing & I don’t think it’s character specific as I’v landed F.RH combos on most the cast.

Hi there,

Simple question, is it possible to ultra 1 into a Rufus dive kick? I mean, if I see that it will whiff and that the dive kick is high enough, is it possible?

Yes it’s possible to AA with U1 but it’s better to just AA with FP.TK since you’ll probably trade with Rufus’s dive kick & then just dash up U1.

What are the uses for Fierce, feint, Ultra?
What are the advantages of using it compared to raw ultra or Fierce SJC ultra?

Any shortcuts for fierce feint ultra?

Okay, I can say I’m much better with Viper than I was when I first started, I can get down burn kicks / FFF / Feints.

Only problem I can’t seem to get down is her Seismo chains & FADC meterless.

For her chains, I know you do the normal —> :f::d::df: + Punch.
Then after the first one, I do this —> :f::df::d::df::f::uf::u: + Punch
Only thing I get is a Super Jump, randomly I might get a chain, but it’s like 2/20 trys.

For FADC meterless, I’m going with this --> :f::df::f::uf::f: + :mp::mk: and I only get a FADC with meter.

My only real problems that still hold me down. :\

Ironically, the problem you’re having with both issues is the same thing: You’re inputting your motions too early. You want to wait until she’s just about to start recovering from the seismo to start your motions.

Ahh, I see. I’m so used to putting in fast inputs lol.

I guess, for the seismo you wait till her fist hits the ground then start the inputs? I always been told do it BEFORE her fist hits the ground. Maybe that why…

Okay, for the FADC… I shall try that.

Fierce feint ultra lets you hit-confirm, ideally from jump-ins or even frame traps. So a jump-in roundhouse > fierce gives you plenty of time to judge if you can ultra or do something else. It also does like 5 more damage, lol (for fierce feint ultra vs raw ultra. I can’t remember the damage for a roundhouse jump-in added before that, but it doesn’t matter since it’s a confirmable to land ultra with good damage). Plus you get a little bit of meter and stun since you hit with the fierce and perhaps the jump-in roundhouse too.

Fierce sjc ultra is fine too, but if you see that they block your fierce, you’ll just have a raw fierce that won’t be feinted which will kind of halt your pressure. Having a feinted fierce takes away some recovery for additional pressure instead of being a 0 or -2 frame advantage for standing fierce and crouching fierce respectively.

Raw ultra starts up in 7 frames, which is quicker than standing and crouching fierce by 2 and 1 frames respectively. Raw ultra also has more range, which might make fierce feint ultra whiff for either the fierce or the ultra thereafter (the seismo part of the ultra will connect, the burn kicks afterwards may not). Doing a raw ultra is also just outright risky if you’re not absolutely sure it will connect, whereas throwing out a fierce has practically no risk.

:hp:, :d::db::b:+:hp:, :d::df::f:+:3p: :d::df::f:+:3p:

The first :3p: is the feint, the second :3p: is the ultra. You’re doing the feint inside of the ultra motion. This should be a fluent, yet slightly fast motion. I could take a video of this if needed.

It makes it so much easier to do it this way instead of rushing it in the fashion of :hp:, :d::db::b:+:hp:, :3p:, :d::df::f::d::df::f:+:3p:. I used to do it that way at first a really long time ago, and you’re giving yourself too much work this way, in my opinion.

As mentioned, you’re doing it too early/fast. You can actually sjc cancel the seismos really really really late, but it won’t be the super quick ones you’re looking for. But if you do them super late and slowly make the timing quicker and quicker, you’ll find the timing you’re looking for.

Thanks TheFragile!

Hi, I’m new to viper. I’ve gotten the basics like FFF, seismo chains etc down, but I don’t understand how to follow up from landing burn kicks (I’ve seen that oki youtube video but didn’t really pick up much from it), from what I understand if they don’t quick rise you can x-up/non x-up burn kick (as well as other things, very straight forward), but if they do there’s a variety of ways you can follow up, which I don’t get. For example, the slight delay, sjc j.hk x-up will work sometimes, and other times not. If this is dependant on burn kick used, is there a list of how to follow up from the different landed burn kicks, ie sjc non-xup burnkick, non-xup burnkick, x-up sjc burnkick, non-sjc burnkick? Do some of these have the same followups?

Personally, I haven’t heard anything about if they don’t quick rise, you can cross-up/non-cross-up burn kick. Plus I think the trade-off on that is kind of dumb anyway, because if you land a cross-up burn kick and they quick rise, then what? You let them get up for free? Meh.

It’s a little character dependent. You can definitely land heavy-oki stuff if they quick rise. Like for example, if you land a cross-up burn kick and then superjump cross-up roundhouse them as they quick rise, you are doing nasty damage/stun. If they don’t quick rise when you do a superjump cross-up roundhouse, then you land right in front of them and do whatever basic oki setup you want on their wakeup all over again. Make sure to always try for whatever cross-up normal (roundhouse or forward) every single time you intend on doing so. By this I mean, if you superjump and notice that they aren’t quick rising, still throw out a roundhouse or forward. **Landing from an empty superjump as Viper or Ibuki gives you 11 frames of landing recovery, whereas if you press any normal in the air for a normal or superjump, it only gives you 4 frames of landing recovery. **Therefore, this obviously gives you much more time to setup whatever you wish if you simply just press a normal in the air.

I don’t have a set list as I probably should, but generally if you land a cross-up burnkick, you can superjump cross-up roundhouse. Sometimes this whiffs for me (again, perhaps it’s a bit character dependent and perhaps sometimes a timing issue), but you can also use superjump cross-up forward, which has a pretty good cross-up hitbox. Regardless, no matter if I do a point blank cross-up bk on someone’s wakeup, or if I do a forward throw > superjump cross-up bk, doing another superjump roundhouse on their wakeup tends to cross-up.

Setups after non-cross-up burn kicks are usually just more ambiguous burn kicks. The :d: :db: :b: :uf: + :hk: or :d: :df: :f: :uf: :f: :df: :d: :db: :b: + :hk: motions that give the really fast and far instant burn kicks that you could use after a non-cross-up burn kick. You will see wolfkrone do this religiously once he gets going. If you land a cross-up, then you can do the paragraph above, and if you don’t land a cross-up, you can do this paragraph all over again.

Of course, you’re not obligated to always cross-up or whatever, so you can be as creative as you wish.

There is no list for setups after x-up BK’s & yes they require different setups or slight variations.

  1. regular jump x-up Bk, slight delay SJ.HK= Anti everything lol

  2. instant x-up BK, SJ.HK= x-up that can pretty easily be auto corrected DP, if you do the slight delay like above the HK whiffs if the opponent blocks as a x-up.

  3. instant non x-up BK, walk forward slightly J.HK/HP w.e= safe jump against I believe 5+ frame reversals

  4. SJ x-up BK, SJ LK.BK above their head= anti DP

  5. after any BK whiff ST.LP, Seismo= meaty Seismo

These are just off the top of my head & I’m sure there are others I don’t know about or I’m forgetting about. You can also just to basic shenanigans like dash up Seismo feint dash up grab/x-up Bk/, double dash grab/ x-up Bk/overhead, basically dash up and do stuff lol.

Is it actually possible to consistently do HP TK cancels? It’s a bit of a stupid question but I’ve managed to do well with Viper so far but I can’t seem to consistently cancel those. Not to look flashy but more for the fact it gives you invincibility. Even after practising for some time now I can only do it like 1/4 times.

Yes of course it’s possible it’s just a really fast input so your fingers get tired easily which will effect your timing, just train your fingers more so you can be consistent.

P.S I chose Viper but I still love Rose