Cable/Sent/Cyke theory and strats

cyclops

#1

First and foremost, I posted this here because General Strat gets very little attention now a days, and it’s important to me someone like Dasrik, Viscant, or Mixup (Whom still post, god bless em) might look at it and offer help/advice/bullshit.

This is, most obviously, a modified team Scrub. (Sent/Cable/Capcom).

The real differences live in the prefrence of AA (Cyke or Cap, for blockstun, AHVB’s, meter building, not weak to snapbacks, without losing fly combos fun), and my insistance on starting Cable instead of Sent.

Now, starting Cable first is interesting in the fact that, while not bad, it was it’s own share of advantages and disadvantages. First, Cable without meter isn’t NEARLY as threatening as Cable with meter, and most opponents will get extremely brave and attempt to “Kill Cable before he can become a theat”. This sucks, because it makes it MUCH harder to control the pace of the match, since regardless of how much locking down and space control you want to do, your opponent is still going to want to rush the fuck out of you.

This can be good and bad. In their hurry to waste Cable, you might be able to capitalize on mistakes and kill or seriously maim a character.

Plus, starting Cable makes the frequent Sent match ups a bit easier, isn’t so bad against Mags, especially with Cyke AA and Sent drones backing him.

Sent loses the high damage from Capcom, but not the fast fly, and even landing a Cyke hit can be chained into a spitXXrpXXhsf, which just further makes getting hit by Cyke a bad thing.

Snapping in Cyke just means you can run and build meter, you still have AA with Cable (and the fear of counter AHVB once you get two meters, if you don’t already have it.), and annoyance with drones.

I tend to think more defensively than offensively, which is why I like this team so much. I think it causes your opponents to be a lot more hesitant than Scrub, because getting hit by Capcom won’t necessarily kill your char. Mag getting touched by Cyke can mean AHVBx3 and goodbye Mags, plus a GB. Cyke gives more blockstun and more spacing, and doesn’t hinder the team in any real way. Plus, Cyke as the last man standing and still chip to death for the win.

What I’m looking to do now is post a detailed VS strat against the other teams. I’ll try and update as much as possible. I also want some tips on how to play Cyke. I’ve read through most the forums here, and other than a few Cyke combos and some really, really basic info, I didn’t see much Cyke strat. It’s as bad as the Cable section, which has more time spent on beating Cable than playing Cable.

I’m hoping to post strats for all three individual chars here, as well as how they work with each other. If you want to post here, please keep it to the subject, and don’t post how you play Cyke/IM/AA or whatever, because that not what this is for.

-R


#2

More general information, since I’ve kinda hidden this post in a slept on char’s little strat guide.

Anti Air: This is a move, or assist, that acts to counter air attacks. Typically extremely high in priority, and with tons of vertical range. Typically, AA duties are assigned to assists, and rarely is it that a point char in MvC2 is relying on his own merit for anti-air purposes.

Some notable differences to that are Cyke and Doom, who often use their launchers as AA because it’s quick, works, and can be done on reaction.

That out of the way, we’ll look at the different AA’s in this game, starting with the big circle.

Cyke>Doom>Capcom>Psy>Cyke.

Breaking it down further:

Cyke:
Cyke starts invincible, move a good distance, and has tons of start up priority. He causes lots of blockstun on a block, and on a successful hit, Cyke’s inredibly easy to combo off of.

The reason Cyke beats out Doom is because Cyke flys through the rocks doom creates around him, and lifts Doom off the ground, totally negating the assist and leaving Doom helpless. Keep in mind, this is generally when assists are called at the same time or fairly close. IE, Doom who’s already launched his rocks, won’t really be affected by Cyke because he’s already done his job. And Cyke landing from his assist will still eat Doom’s rocks.

Teams Cyke is often seen on:
Cable/Sent/Cyke
Mag/Storm/Cyke
Storm/Sent/Cyke

Doom:
The rocks man! The rocks! Weak verse over heads, Doom comes out, swirls rocks, and let’s go with arguably the best chipping assist in the game. Normal projectiles don’t affect doom, and most physical hits won’t get him unless it’s a quick overhead.

The reason Doom beats Capcom is because Capcom’s not invincible on start up, and for a brief second when Capcom hits the screen, he’s vulnerable. Since Doom’s rocks create a constant hit box while they’re swirling, they will catch Capcom every time AS LONG AS you judge the distance right. Thus, Doom>Capcom. :slight_smile:

Teams Doom is seen on:
Mag/Storm/Doom (Ghetto chip/unmashable)
Jesus aka Mag/Cable/Doom
Clockw0rk aka Sent/Strider/Doom

Capcom:
Capcom is, bar none, the most widely used assist. He deals great damage, reaches all the way to the top of the screen, and makes some of the games meanest combo’s possible.

The reason Capcom beats Psy is because Psy doesn’t have the momentum to hit Cap. Called at the same time, psy will start her uppercut, and end it while Capcom is doing his corridor, which will hit her on recovery. Kinda of like a counter assist. If Psy is called, you can always counter with Capcom. Plus, Capcom’s invincible while doing the corridor, or at least to physical hits (Ala Psy). I know the explaination sucks, but it’s what I got, so there :stuck_out_tongue:

Teams Capcom is seen on:
What team is he NOT on?
Scrub (Sent/Cable/Capcom)
Santhrax (Storm/Sent/Capcom)

Psylocke:
Psy is wierd in the fact she’s only really used with Mag’s and Storm. She’s fast, hits both sides, and is invincible, meaning if you can stick on them and not give them breathing room, she’ll often hit their counter assist, or cross them up. She also launchs to just the right hieght to start most of the games infinites (IM and Mags are the common ones.)

The reason Psy beats Cyke is because Psy has more invinciblity. While Cyke is invincible on start up, after he starts his forward movement, he’s hittable. And Psy, who stays in one place, counter assisted, will pop Cyke right up out of his assist. God bless invinciblity right?

Common teams Psy is on:
Mag/Storm/Psy
IM/XXX/Psy

That’s just a run down of the most common AA’s, or the big four in my opinion. My next post will deal more with AA, but more-so along the lines of Tron, BH, IM, Ken, Cammy, and Jin.

-R

PS: This is as much for me as it is for any of you, so… ha!


#3

what kinda strats are you specifically looking for for cyclops?

me and dasrik talked a lot one day about cyclop and he called me his hero…

ekin, who i’ve also discussed cyclops with, thinks some of my strats are pretty dope

he really doesn’t have any bad matchups… gimme what you’re specifically looking for (characters and assist), etc etc… any other assists you use besides Cable AA and Sent drones (Cykes BEST assist imo) and I’ll help you with what I can…

I claim the best cyclops on the east coast, i accept all challengers!


#4

Ha. Awesome! I knew if I kept posting Cyke’s name around someone would show up. :stuck_out_tongue:

Basically, I’m playing Cable/Sent/Cyke, assists being AA/Drones/AA.

Now, the reason I’m playing Cyke and not Commando is because he’s less a risk to get snapped. Not saying people won’t still snap him thinking I won’t know what I’m doing… but. :slight_smile:

So, I’d need to know how to use Cyke with either Cable’s AA or Sent’s drones, how to safely switch back into another of the char’s, and how to fight alone with him as the last man.

So common things would be, Cyke vs Mag/Storm/Cable/Sent, and then match ups where maybe Cyke’s the last guy vs Mag/Psy or Storm/Sent or Storm/Cap… you know, shit like that. I want to be able to do more than smartly run away, he’s got to have some standard things you look to hit.

Is the infinite worth learning/knowing/using?

What type of matchs do you typically find your Cyke looking down at, and what matchs give your Cyke the hardest time.

I know I want to know a lot, but bare with me and just gimmie tidbits here and there. I’m still making this a pretty comprehensive post in the fact I’m gonna dump all my MvC2 knowledge here. It’s the only way I know to memorize it and learn the stuff, repeatively type it out and use it. :stuck_out_tongue:

-R

PS: How was the Absinthe?


#5

okay, i play storm/sent/cyke, so I can’t help ya much w/ cable AAA (i’m at work, so ill try shit when i get home today w/ it and post), but with drones, I can tell ya a LOT of stuff…

if drones hit by themselves, you have a number of things you can do, these are also his BnB combos

oc.hk, sj.lk,mp, - d+lk,d+mp, - d+lk,d+mp, land, call drones (you’re resetting here) dc.hk throw (d/b + hk, scissor kick throw), throw hits into drones, s.hkx2 xx SOB

another: dash in s.hkx2 xx cyclone kick xx SOB or MOB (SOB is generally better and it can hit both point and assist)

cyclops has a 100% combo w/ sentinel drones as well

j.d+hk + drones, dash in s.lk,s.hkx2, drones hit, dash in oc.hk, sj.lk,mp - d+lk,d+mp, - d+lk,d+mp, land, call drones, dc.hk throw into drones, s.hkx2 xx SOB

that leaves cable w/ like 2 pixels of life


SOB connects perfectly into HSF if you DHC into sentinel and I imagine it would do the same w/ ground HVB, but make sure you have another meter for the DHC to HSF to kill them (ill see if i can do anything w/ timeflip, but it would probably be a SAFE dhc, even tho it didn’t connect, except vs. another cable of course, or maybe a framekill into hail or PC or something)


Learn how to do Genesplice AND the infinite. Sure GS is just a special move, but being able to nail that DP motion is a key to success w/ Cyclops. Ask Dasrik, GeneSplice forever.


Little Trick:
if you get them to block a chain into cyclone kick xx MOB for chip, 9/10 times they will dash in or try to hit you in some way after it. This is where GS comes in. Call drones as you recover and do a GS immediately as you hit the ground. If it connects, mash on fierce and xx SOB and aim it upward for damage. Free super no.1.

9/10 times they won’t attack on the way down, but sentinel will fly or storm/mags may airdash or some other sort of thing. If they do come all the way down w/o attacking (this works great on cable, as he has no way to delay falling really) out of fear of another GS xx SOB, get in dc.hk throw into drones, s.hkx2 XX SOB. You just killed them off of a block chain into MOB cuz they got stupid. It works really well, you can do it w/ solo cyclops too, but take out the throw into drones part.


Cyclops infinite: oc.hk, sj.lk,mp - d+lk,d+mp, - d+lk,d+mp,d+mk, land oc.hk repeat

i leave out the initial lp for my own reasons. I get used to doing the reset into drones and I just think it’s easier than putting 3 hits in there.


Cyclops’ Hardest Fight IMO is Storm, Sentinal can be equally as hard, but might be easier in your case since you have Cable AAA( in S/S/Cykes I have no additional AA to rely on, it’s all genesplice)

me, dasrik, and zaza are trying to figure out how to get the “fullscreen” genesplice to come out all the time w/ fierce, as sometimes the jab, shorter one comes out. dasrik and zaza have said that f,qcf + fierce gets it, I tried it last night and it seems like holding forward through the special gets you the longer range. If you see her do a ground typhoon and she has meter, you can assume she may do hail. As soon as you see the motion for typhoon start, call drones and do the genesplice. If she goes for the hail, you’ll hit her out of it. If she doesn’t, then drones should cover you from any combo she can do, just practice it.

Try to keep her grounded w/ calling drones, s.hp (the optic bullet will go ahead of them), jab genesplices (better recovery and you just want to cover the air over your head hear, prevent square jump crossups or calling an assist with it), and stay on the ground s.hkx2 to build meter after you call drones, then throw out an optic bullet, dash in j.d+hk w/ drones, dash in s.hkx2 xx cyclone kick xx MOB, then try for the genesplice trick i said before, that’s the best way to look at storm. Don’t try to take her in the air, she can move more than you and has more priority and can combo right into LA xx LS DHC whatever off of a short in the air. Don’t try to take her there, cover your airspace w/ jab genesplices.

Sentinel? Patience my frience, if he has capcom, get your sentinel in there and play keepaway. If he doesn’t have capcom, your chances are much better. Just be patient and look for a way to get an opening to chip. If he does a HSF, sj xx SOB and aim it down at him, DHC cyclops out if you got the meter to. Like I said, it connects to HSF cleanly and if they’re in the corner, you can do a lot of damage with this method. Don’t get caught in the corner. A good sentinel won’t give you enough time to recover and get a genesplice off. DON’T GET IN THE CORNER!!! That’s the biggest hting I can stress vs. sentinels. You have a doublejump, you should be able to avoid this entirely.

Fighting him in the air? If you’re jumping up to him, do a neutral RH. If you’re in neutral airspace, sj.hp, it beats frying pan, sentinel’s best move in this situation.

Coming down? D+HK, it beats anything he can do coming up on you.


Mags/Cable

They’re relatively easy to play versus. With capcom, they can be a bit trickier, but still a lot easier than fighting Sent or Storm w/ Capcom. If cable is j.hp back w/ capcom assist, wavedash under his bullets and avoid capcom at all costs. Just try to get close for the oc.hk when he’s coming down into the infinite. The oc.hk has more range than it looks like and it’s really fucking fast. From full screen cyclops can wavedash in and oc.hk a j.hp cable upon reaction to his inital jump. If he does bullets? Cyke can duck under them, learn the timing, you can sneak in a jab optic blast xx SOB between bullets and ground ViperBeam. Cable is pretty easy to fight vs. w/ cyclops. Especially because he falls VERY prone to that MOB strategy I posted before, since oc.hk beats out a SFRH from cable if he’s coming down on you, and you have GS at your disposal.


If you’re fighting 2 chars and only have cykes? Stay on the ground. SJ only to build meter. Cyclops beats almost anyone coming down on him w/ oc.hk or genesplice. Toss out optic bullets, Follow up w/ a jab genesplice to take away the airspace above you. SJ to build meter (don’t be dumb vs. storms, she can really punish you, watch out for Framekills as well)

You can bait assists w/ an empty jump in. If you do, just dash in s.hkx2 xx cyclone kick xx SOB if the assist is “knocked” into the same place as the point character, like they’re on top of each other. You can’t PB this and get out in time, plus cyke’s range keeps the assist in the combo. This works against magnetos because they’re waiting for Psylocke to hit you as you try to come in w/ a j.d+hk, but you did an empty jump in, so they’re sitting there and you can chip them. The SOB keeps the point in check and does minor chip while this combo does a good 1/2 life damage to almost any assist.

Do NOT do random SOBs. This is a desperation technique, and I despise it. It makes you look REALLY sloppy with cyclops, cyclops always has a way to hit, just like the big four, people just don’t know how to play as him and brush him off as a meter builder who can do good chip. Not true, he can do just as much damage, if not more than the big four at almost any given time (not in the SJ state unless you can link to the infinite off a sj.lk, which is very difficult)

cyclops isn’t really a runaway character, you just need to practice and learn to use and abuse what he has. Dasrik agrees with me (called me his hero) on this part of cykes. You can do much more than sj and spam roundhouse all day, people just can’t use him.

If you want anything more specific that I didn’t answer, just ask. I’ll try stuff w/ cable AAA when I get home.


the absinthe should be in sometime later this week


edit: something else I forgot. cyclops’ snapback combos off his s.hkx2, it combos off the 2nd roundhouse. This leads to a 1/2 life snapback combo of his, and it builds a half meter as well.

Snapback combos:

Drones hit, dash in s.hkx2 xx snapback

j.d+hk + drones, dash in s.lk,s.hkx2, drones hit, dash in s.hkx2 xx snapback (1/2 life)

j.d+hk + drones, dash in s.lk,s.hkx2, drones hit, dash in oc.hk, sj.lk,mp - d+lk,d+mp - d+lk, d+mp land, dc.hk throw into drones reset, s.hk xx snapback (note only 1 s.hk, the 2nd one knocks them too far away, but the snapback is quick enough to combo off of a solo one, just practice and it comes easy)

that’s like a 3/4 life snapback and I think it builds well over 1 meter, so it’s pretty much a free snapback and you did hella damage.

oh yea, noone ever really tech hits the dc.hk scissor kick throw, it’s VERY VERY quick, so you don’t really have to worry about them tech hitting out of your resets.


also, a little trick in the corner w/ drones

if you get them in the corner and can jump in. do j.d+hk + drones, dash in s.lk (hold back), s.hkx2

IF IT CONNECTS

  1. dash in w/ oc.hk into infinite (1 rep) into the reset

  2. dash in s.hkx2 xx cyclone kick xx SOB DHC HSF, dash in s.hk launcher into whatever sentinel combo you want (ill post sent/cykes stuff later, time to get back to work)

IF IT DOESN’T

You’ve been charging back sicne you dashed in w/ s.lk, s.hkx2 while the drones are covering the block stun. as soon as drones pass you, hit forward + hk and cyclops does the ground dash. Drones blockstun will dissipate, cykes (has a constant hitbox when he’s dashing) will grab when the hitstun is gone, you can followup w/ an otg c.lk, s.hk x2 xx SOB and then get them back into the dc.hk throw into drones reset cuz you’re in the corner, so it can’t push them away.

I don’t know why, but it seems like a lot of people don’t roll out of the dashing throw, or maybe it’s not an otg, but a juggle, i doubt the latter, but people just don’t roll out of it. This is inescapable because cyclops dashing throw is ALWAYS hitting when he starts dashing until he starts to stop. You can’t jump out of it unless you jump straight up (risk that 1 frame where you might not be blocking) because the game registers the forward or back motion before the upward one, so jumping u/f or u/b out of it is pretty much out of the question, normal attacks won’t hit it since it’s always hitting, it will beat it out.

If they don’t roll, you just got a free super off the blockchain. I also don’t think you can pushblock it because the hitstun of the drones is long enough that is they push the last one, cyclops still dashes in in time and picks up the hitstun into the throw. I still need to test this but i’m pretty positive.

Cyclops is a REALLY REALLY good character. Just take the time to learn with him and practice a lot. Ive gotten told that my cyclops puts up a better fight than my other characters in certain situations, and this is after the fact that I have a 1 hit, 1 reset kill w/ storm, just like magneto’s. So I think I have a pretty solid cykes. Just practice and you’ll pick him up pretty easy. He’s easy to play, just gotta take the time to learn him and understand how he works. He’s not meant for meter building, even though he does it the fastest in the game behind dan (taunt). And BTW, you build meter faster on the ground w/ cyclops than sj.hk’s. s.hkx2 comes out VERY quickly and builds good meter, if you have drones coming w/ it, that’s more meter, and then you can cancel it into a jab optic blast behind the drones, and toss out an optic bullet after that so the OB picks up the blockstun of the drones.

i think that’s like 1/3 meter right there and it takes like 2 game seconds. It might be more or less, but I know it’s faster than spamming sj.hk’s and faster than storm’s HP’s or anything like that.


#6

Jesus, that’s a ton of damage to be outpointing with Cyke. Crazy nice use of the infinite too. I have a question, you can call the assist twice because you reset right?

So, after the infinite (I don’t have a DC to practice on, basically I write this shit down and try and do it at the arcade), 1 rep, you fall, wait for them to catch their feet and imediantly db RH throw into drones?

Is there any timing issues, or spacing issues? What about vs storm or mags, you know… people who can air dash? Do they fuck it up, or does the infin drop them off so low once they recover their feet, they’re on the ground?

Can’t wait for the Sent/Cyke stuff, because that kinda stuff can be beastly after a cyke into Sent DHC, into a sent fast fly with Cyke. That should fucking kill a char…

-R


#7

hey there. so i was fiddling around with the gene splices after i read about their different horizontal reaches. i believe you can control which gene splice you get with where you press the button in relation to the down/forward part of the dragon punch motion. so if you press the button before the d/f, you get the shorter version. and if you press after, then you get the longer one.

coupled with the different ranges for jab and fierce, you can have 4 different gene splices: with horizontal ranges going 0, 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 the length of the screen.


#8

Man, Hated One, you have some crazy shit going on there with Psychoclops. None of that shit looks like it could work in an actual match, but dude, I’d like to see you do it. I hope I get to see you play someday soon.

Anyway, I’m gonna share some of my experiences playing Cyclops. IMO he doesn’t really have a bad fight with Storm. Standing fierce will trade with typhoon and stop hail storm, you just have to decide for yourself if the trade is worth it. If she tries to run in with low short or light attacks like that, standing roundhouse xx optic blast will stop it all, but stand/low roundhouse is something you have to worry about. That covers my experience in ground game of Cyclops vs. Storm. Air-to-ground, Cyclops nails Storm 1-on-1 because his down+fierce beats Storm’s everything. Watch out for anti-airs though. If Storm jumps with you, you have to decide for yourself which attack to use to beat her. Cyclops has four heavy normals in the air, so you have to choose which one is the best one for the situation. That about covers it for Cyclops vs. Storm in my experience. If you come up with other things, I’d like to hear them.


#9

That’s no more than a Mag string Das. All he’s saying is, if you hit SFR, you’re dealing an ass of damage. It’s an infinite into a reset, just like mags. Puts it a lot more in prospective now. And since he only does one loop of the infin, the timing is not hard. It’s pretty creative actually, kinda scaring sounding too. I didn’t believe it was possible at first either, but those snap back combos? 1/2 life and a snap? That shit’s crazy. Now if he had an unescapable guard break…

We judge tiers on high damaging combos, DHC’s, on point ability, and assist.

He’s got an infin that’s practical (In a one or two rep sense) that leads to resets.

He’s got DHC opitions to AND from him

He deals great chip.

Builds meter very well.

Has no bad (Unwinnable) match ups solo

Is a good assist and does well with assists

I seriously agree that if we can get this Cyke shit down, he might just make it a top 5 :stuck_out_tongue:

-R


#10

i thought the long range dp is just a dp out of a dash (f,f,qcf+p)

at least thats what viscant told me i think


#11

So, are you saying that the dashing uppercut goes full screen, stand still fierce got less, and so forth? Can you test it? In order for me to play MvC2 I gotta take a 1 1/2 hour train ride to Tokyo :stuck_out_tongue:

-R


#12

I’ve been meaning to post some more cyclops stuff, but never got around to it.

Anyway, here’s a combo for the characters you can’t do the infinite on (BH,Sent,Juggs,Hulk are the hardest)

get in a launcher any way you can, then slowly do sj.lp,lk,mp while holding forward, after the mp, hold down and do a late d+hk, it doesn’t look like it’ll crossup, but it does, you then do a s.lk + drones,s.mk,s.hk, ddrones hit, dash in to whatever you want

followups for the 2nd combo can be relaunch, slow 1234 land w/ the throw into drones, or simple s.hkx2 xx cyclone kick xx SOB DHC HSF

depends on what you want to do, if you follow it up w/ the slow 1234 into the throw into drones, it’s a self-sufficient combo, it builds its own meter, and leaves sent w/ about 5% life

the combo looks like this.

j.d+hk, dash in oc.hk, sj.lp,lk,mp,d+hk (crossup reset), land, s.lk + drones, s.mk, s.hk, dash in oc.hk, sj.lp,lk,mp,mk, land, call drones, dc.hk throw, s.hkx2 xx SOB

that does about 90-95% to sentinel, noone ever techs that throw, and the first reset ive never seen anyone do before, so i doubt they’ll be expecting it

have fun

it works on everyone, but works easiest on taller chars or wider ones best


#13

@ high lvl the players won’t just sit there for the throw.

also you can’t have the best cyc unless you actually win with him.

nice info though.


#14

I’m sure he wins with him Mixup. The only question is what he wins with him. I don’t know if he has the best Cyc, but out of everyone, he’s posted the best info I’ve seen recently [if not ever].


#15

Some team specific info for Cable/Sent/Cyke.

First off, consider putting Sentinel on Rocket Punch assist. Cyclops loses drones, but Cable gets coverage on his only weak point. And Cyke gets some easy mode damaging combos.

Either way, Cable/Sent has a good fight on Storm IMO. Calling either Sentinel assist and tk viper beam shuts down Storm on the ground, and she is forced to superjump to get in on you. That’s when you jump jab into gun into die.

If you’re in the corner when you shoot them, you can DHC into Sentinel. Sentinel/Cyclops have an easy ass combo from anywhere, launch with Cyke, fierce jab RP. In the corner, you can follow that up with more. Also consider having Cable on the beam assist since CAHVB is not really an issue when you start Cable anyway.

With Cyclops, what you do is largely dependent on which assist you pick for Sentinel. I’ll let Hated One cover that, because my Cyke is shitty runaway Cyke.


#16

I don’t play this team as much as Scrub anymore since Capcom assist just seems to beast the people I play more than Cyke, that and I haven’t really learned how to assist well with Cyke yet. I know that SOUNDS wierd, but I’m serious, it’s not the same as Capcom. I don’t have a problem with rushdown storm, or char’s anymore. It’s fucking run away storm that beasts me. :frowning: And RP Sent isn’t gonna fix that for me.

-R


#17

cscyc is too hot :clap: :tup: :encore: