Calling ALL HDR (West Coast) Players...Don't Let SF2 Die


#1

So, in light of the debacle that was the West Coast Warzone HDR Team Tourney (not hating btw, just stating facts), my bro & I have been talking in great lengths about the direction SF2 is going, especially on SRK. Now, let me preface the following sentiments to come by stating that this is not a thread to debate which iteration of SF2 is best…

With SF4 practically getting (taking actually) all the attention for fighters, SF2’s place within this site and scene appears greatly in jeopardy…which would be a travesty. SF2 is the very foundation from which most fighters stem from. When I first joined this scene during the ol’ # Capcom days (during the era of Javi’s page of whateva) I noticed SF2 had a “decent” following. Now, that decent has become minuscule. This is very troubling considering the fact that SF2 IS this site & scene’s most marketable product.

As such, I felt compelled to at least generate some discussion as to how to garner more interest for HDR. Like it or not, HDR is the only chance SF2 has left. With that being said, ALL West Coast (Cali, NV, AZ, UT, OR) should try their best to attend all & any offline HDR tourney. Seriously, I have glanced through some of the GGs and other threads and have noticed members’ locations in the WC that didn’t come out to Warzone or Denjin a few week backs. Now, I can honestly say that we (my bro & myself) did not attend the HDR ranbats earlier. Portable stick or no portable stick, we DID drop the ball on that (our apologies)…but rest assured, we will make sure that wont happen again.

So, it seems like the best way to garner interest is for HDR players to present a united front and ACTUALLY show up or run tournies (ala Sweet JV & Megaman, aka “The Mobile HDR Crew”). I contacted Activegamers (http://www.activegamersla.com/) and asked them what was the likelihood of them running HDR tournies. Here was there reply:

*"thanks for the interest in our tournaments. To answer your question on HD remix, we do have a strong intrest in hosting some sort of event/tournament. Just to let you know ideas are always welcome at our facilaties, so if you have any please don’t hesitate to call us at any time.
*

*Thank you for your interest in what we’re doing with ACTivegamerS, to answer your question, yes we will be holding HD Remix events in the near future If you would like to become involved in further developing that community feel free to send us an email with any suggestions you may have and what you feel are your best qualifications.
*

*As of right now we are working with the current roster of games because they have shown
such support by showing up to our events on a monthly bases. I have planned to do HD Remix tournaments on the same days as SFIV and will more than likely do so in our
next big event in november. The criteria that needs to be met for HD Remix to be a
permanent game and not just a side event would mean at least 80 people would need
to show up to each tournament we host.
*

At least 80 people. Given the small turnout for tournies (and relatively few tournies hosted) thus far, that will definitely be a challenge. Impossible no, challenge, yes. For such a daunting it might task it might be best if we all contribute in a little way. Beyond attending these tournies, ranbats, etc, perhaps we could be more hospitable to some of the players we come across on XBL. By that I mean, offer friendly advice when requested, always reply with GG, offer compliments, and even mention tournies. As trivial as it may seem, most players have never even heard of SF2 tournaments. Let alone knowing that these tournies take place in locations near them. Fancy that, huh? My bro I have even been thinking of putting together some HDR tournies with serious cash (Evo-esque payout) to bring in some interest.

Anyway, I had to get this off my chest because I cannot stand the direction SF2 is going within this scene. If any of you guys have suggestions, ideas, etc, definitely post up…after all, this is a thread for US about OUR game.


#2

Who’s better, Dark Gaiden or Vintage?


#3

Solid post Ty!

Great to get the ball rolling.

I think there are a NUMBER of different topics to discuss, so I’ll just throw out a couple.
Please reply to these topics or add topics to the list.

1 - Making sure HDR tournaments are hyped (before and after) and matches are recorded.

West Coast Warzone website is up (http://westcoastwarzonevideos.com/).
It has vids for SF4, “under construction” tabs for 3rd Strike, Blazblue, and MvC2… and no mention of HDR.
From what I understand, footage of the event wasn’t even taken.
We need to make sure that:

  1. HDR events are promoted in proper forums/sites/threads before they occur,
  2. that footage of matches in these events are recorded (even the early rounds),
  3. and that after the tournament is over that it gets covered in any recaps. (like the one on the Warzone site above, youtube channel, website, forum thread, etc.)

De Mavrick talked about FINAL ROUND TOURNAMENT in GA, but where’s the footage and recap?
I found this on Google, but it’s just a quick recap by a fan and doesn’t even mention HDR.

People LOVE to be part of something, so let’s make sure HDR tourneys get people excited to come on board.

2 - Recognize the players, and grow the player community

There were lots of faces at EVO and WCW, who were they all?
We should try to get names, online handles, characters, bios, faces (photo), etc. of all the HDR players/fans coming out to the tourneys or playing in the community whatsoever. (SF2myspace? SF2blizcon?)

We need to get their names down and help support their ongoing interest and keep them informed of future events.
Find out what they liked/didn’t, what made them come out (price? convenient location? tourney size? tourney format?), etc.

I LOVED meeting the people at EVO and WCW.
I LOVED grabbing some food with them and hanging out.
We should set-up some grabbing food around the tourneys, where people can come out (HDR players, HDR fans, and anyone with good cheer welcome)

This extends to online.
There have been some threads to help sort or flesh out just who everyone is: here, here, and here.
We need to get these fixed on a web page, not just buried in a great but obscuring forum.

I’d be happy to put up whatever is needed on streetfighterdojo.com. (though for anything sizeable I’d need help with the html/programming/art/whatever)
We can add tourney recaps like this or this or this, but I MUCH prefer to offer coverage like this.

Also, I need to get the rest of the ST cast onto streetfighterdojo.com, and then get an HDR section up.


#4

See, this is something (Even though I’m not a west-coaster) i can get behind. Part of encouraging off line participation begins with encouraging people who are new with online participation. We have this marvelous invention which finally brings people together and allows people to improve, but the talent gap is large and daunting for many.

That’s part of the reason I started the WWL was to bring people together, make friends, encourage people. Not everyone in our league is a great player, but everyone has fun and we’re recording matches and we’re taking the steps necessary to engross our players in a greater EXPERIENCE. We’re designing our website now, we’re getting bio pages to help introduce our members to each other, we’re keeping detailed records about how everyone plays against everyone else, we’ve got a youtube page where we’re posting our tournament matches, heck, after we’ve grown a little bit, I plan on having a weekly video-cast sports center style show in which we showcase league members, talk about standings, have interviews with top players, answer league member questions, and prognosticate on future event. We’re creating a larger experience than the game, and I think in today’s environment of multimedia saturation, that’s going to be necessary to build numbers in the face of an overwhelming juggernaut (SF4).

That’s what the offline scene has always been about, the experience, and unfortunately today, I think the model by which people come out has changed. Japan has the arcade scene, its all but dead outside of California in the US. Fighting games are notoriously complex and scary for beginners, its easy to understand why if you’re first match ever was against an EVO finalist (not that’d you’d know) and you may assume if that’s what it takes to have fun than I’m out…

This community, not just the west coast, but EVERYONE needs to come together around a standard organization which can bring this whole process together, which can make a better experience for newer and less talented players while providing the necessary high level competition for better players. I don’t know if the WWL is the vehicle to do that or if its something else, but I’m all for keeping SF2 alive and well EVERYWHERE. If that means that I have to expand the vision and eventually hold and sponsor HDR events (which I’m in discussions now about with various people) than I will. But someone needs to make HDR a priority, and the only reason we’ve expanded into other games is to help bring people back, not the other way around.

All this is to say… you are not alone!


#5

I’d love to help grow/support the WWL.

I had wanted to get a WSFA (World Street Fighter Association) started with a logo similar to Deadfrog’s old sig (I asked him a while back and he was cool with my using his image concept)
Slap the name/logo on list of upcoming tourneys, tournament coverage, player bios, hall of fame, etc.
Never got around to it, but the WWL could fill the same role. (or be a part of it, whatever)


#6

Well, I wanted to have a logo design contest for the WWL. Cammy is our covergirl (Since she’s my main and Chun-Li is taken by some stupid… Shosomethingorother other website) and I think there’s some cool stuff that could be done. I posted the contest in the art section and the moderator yanked that, but I know there’s alot, A LOT of artistic talent in this community.

More than anything though, I think we just need to continue to grow our numbers, get more people involved, make sure people show up, and then when we get the website (at least preliminarily) up we can start to really do more of the integration stuff. People should feel free to subscribe to our youtube channel, comment on matches, making everything that is done, something that captivates users and wants them to come back. I mean if people keep showing up, and this thing grows, you can do some things to add a little revenue and then you can do things like add small prizes, have drawings, and stuff to make people want to keep playing and help prepare them when they get the courage to go out into their local tourney scene and pwn people… hard.

In short: We’ve got to have something that helps bring people back (and I think the only way to do this is to encourage co-mingling in the long run, having people participate in multiple games, with a commitment not to short change HDR, and unapologetically saying that IT and not SF4 is our franchise game) and offers an experience beyond the game which I am personally committed to, and its something I have a real vision for.


#7

I’ll tell you why there no money in it. Out side of 2 majors EVO and the other one that people qualified to get a stop at EVO are the only two events where people that attend go just to play hdr. Its like this why spend time playing a game that i cant make money in. There “NO” Tourney that are made with HDR as the main event and, that there a little extra to the pot to bring in the crowd, So people were like why play.

Plus no matter haw you dress it HDR is still the same VST that was made back in the early 90’s. Now if Sirlin had made a new add on to the Street Fighter 2 family then it would be diff if he had added in new characters to the game and new suprers the game would of had a new feel to it. I can tell you i have been playing STfor only like a year and, a half or so and still is the same CE that i use to play in the past a NEWER VERSION of SF2 needs to come out to save it.


#8

Your arguement leads to a catch-22 scenario though. Something has money therefore its successful and its only successful if it pays out money. The truth it, something has to be built before payouts can be achieved.

I personally believe there’s quite alot of room for growth in this market space. If people were to commit there’s no reason to believe that with additional points of media convergence some revenue stream couldn’t be generated that would lead to additional financial support that would lead to higher turnout. We can’t start out from the position that we don’t have big bucks therefore we can’t. That just means its going to take work and dedication and the willingness to put one’s time and effort into making sure that they’ll do their part to make sure the whole succeeds.


#9

^^^^

Thats the same point i was making if theres no money in it people will only play it so long and, by people i mean the tournament crowd. If there now top players still playing it then theres no coverage of it then there no one who cares.

Simple start adding money to the pot at HDR tournament when the big names come out so will everyonr else


#10

I agree that money plays a roll, especially in maintaining a ‘scene’… but I don’t think we’re there and that may be where we see things differently. I see HDR going through a Benjamin Button type of reverse growth. It started off strong, stayed strong, died down, and now we’re at the starting over phase. When you start from nothing you have to build. Building requires effort. If people are really serious about reviving the community then there will have to be an acknowledgment of sacrifice of financial gain early to see financial gain later. I mean is it better to have 2 tournaments a year with 100 people for pay out or is it better to have 2 tournaments with 100 people one year, have no pay out, then come back the next year with 200 people for 3 tournaments and payouts because you were able to build the solid footing on which to build your financial net?

It’s either keep taking small payouts now and keep the game small or pay the price up front, grow our community, and then have bigger payouts later. Its a matter of short term versus long term economics, in the end the long term equilibrium is always the more profitable one, but the question is does this community have the commitment to stay on that path? I hope so, I’m betting so, and that’s why with its help HDR is going to be a vibrant community where people can play for fun and play at the highest levels.


#11

Quoted for truth. Mavrick hit it on the head.

I voiced a concern a long time ago about the possibility of HDR living a shorter than expected life. Everybody said I was crazy.

HDR divided a already small community. Regardless of the argument which version is better, which I don’t want to get into. The changes caused many of the “pro’s” not support it. I think both sides of the ST/ HDR coin have valid reasons to support their POV. But, it doesn’t change the fact the the game lacks support from the ‘pro’ community.

True, HDR added a lot of New blood. Megaman/ EA GameMan, Jiggly, Thelo, and many others have joined and contributed to the scene. But, for the most part the new blood isn’t enough to stop the hemorrhaging.

I think that it needs to said that the lack of an international scene hurts the game. However people choose to play it down or say we don’t need an international scene, the sentiment seems to be that Japanese Vs. USA rivalry adds much to a games appeal. I think the international rivalry needs to be there in order for a SF type game to have some level of sustainability.

If Diago, Nuki, Tokido, Kuni, and etc. really played HDR, I feel there would be more support for the game.

I think in the long run its going to be three strikes and your out for HDR, as much as I enjoy HDR and hate to say it.

Strike one: Divided U.S. community.
Strike two: No International support.
$trike three: No money (Credit Maverick)

and Yer’ out.

~Fatty.


#12

The main reason it’s not played in Japan is that the game isn’t licensed for Japan. Japanese players have to buy a special membership that’s listed as US to play HDR. That’s ridiculous. It’s as if we had to buy a second xbox live membership just to play BlazBlue.

And the reason that happened is because Capcom USA and Capcom Japan are acting (are?) like rival companies. Capcom Japan is protecting its territory.

Capcom USA and Capcom Japan have put themselves in a lose-lose situation with HDR. They could have cooperated to win and draw a large player base instead forced a split between ST and HDR.

I tried to play SF4 like Mavrick but couldn’t get into it. If HDR dies, I will probably just quit video games in general.


#13

^^^^ I agree with everything in this statement.

OK… maybe I will not quit video games completely… Some of those iphone app/games are DAMN fun.

Pee Monkey Trainer FTW!!!


#14

Well, if tourney’s fail, lets just not let it die online. May not be perfect, but then the game has had a good run.

Good games don’t die, they just become classics.

We all have a sentimental feeling towards a game like SFII. I still play super metroid III, and LTTP. So the game will never “die”, it just may not be offered at tournaments.

Ok, that’s bad, but its still a group game, its a game where you can invite people over and play and have fun. If you lose that aspect then the game is lost.

Also, you guys could live in TN where there is nobody playing, but me. :sad:

Everyone down here is still riding the hype sf4 train. I just wish it would wreck, but regardless of its mechanics it revitalized fighters, we just need to be happy HDR came out in the first place, since it helped subdivide the community.

People played HDR because they wanted to see what IV was “based” on. In turn the community got some people who wouldn’t have touched HDR to begin with, as well as got some players who realized HDR > IV and fell in love with it.


#15

At the end of the day, we can talk about divisions, and how HDR divided an already small community, we can devolve into shouting matches, or we can accept, we can push forward.

Fatboy is right about something, the community doesn’t have the ability to support two games, so are we willing to go the way of CART when Indy Car and Champ Car split, causing arguments for years before reconciliation finally happened? (By which time NASCAR had already taken all of their previous fans) OR do we agree to put the past behind us and move forward. It is my belief based on my experience and people I talk to that really, most people are ready to move on, but this is a journey where if even 10% of the community won’t walk with the plan, then the plan is doomed. I know its hard, I know alot of people looked at ST like the pinnacle, it was the vision of perfection, it was everything SF2 could ever achieve. I looked on the ST forums just today and I see a thread called RIP ST and its like a funeral dirge. I know its hard, but there are two choices, mourn and die, or cope and fight to save what’s there.

I could put 10,000.00 dollars up tomorrow and I don’t think it would make a darn bit of difference to the amount of people who played HDR today. But in a year from now, after this community has stood together and brought new people in, then maybe it would. There’s no money in it because it fell backwards, but with good people leading the way, I believe it can be a profitable exercise again. But even a poker pro, needs marks to make his money on. Pros don’t make their money off of other pros…


#16

I have a similar view. I see fatboy’s point, in that the new blood in HDR might be not enough to keep the game strong, but I believe that is it: the HDR new blood. SF4 got the attention. If HDR could get a larger player base, neither higher pots nor support by top players would be necessary (but would happen anyway). There are a number of (off topic) reasons why SF4 got the players, but the thing is, if HDR has quality, then it can attract players too. But that will be up to the players to show how OG games can be awesome.

It happens in my country too that some good players wish for frequent money matches and big, well organized tournaments with high prizes already, but if the scene is not there, there is a long way until such a situation is real. Thus, effort from the players is necessary.

Money helps, but I can not agree that is necessary to start. Players willing to have fun and measure their skills against the others are. All around the world, people would not go out with a soccer ball on their hands recruiting friends all around to get a game set, and US kids would not get their gloves and bats to play for money, or some future job or such. Just like I would not get to the arcade saloon and spend a coin or two in ST waiting for a challenge in the hope of getting rich. With all the differences in mind (not a huge, continental country, arcade scene alive), Japanese play in tournaments with no money prizes. People gotta have the will, if no-one does, only then we can say there is no turning back.

I rated this thread the highest. I have been trying my best to gather people in my town for VST, and while results are discouraging, I ain’t gonna stop unless life and job take all my spare time away. Best wishes for the US West Coast scene, please keep this shit going.

I have few suggestions, things I think are needed to get things going:[list][]a place where gamers can gather, meet each other and play, frequently
[
]a good source of information (here I suggest someone with some spare time get a HDR section done on the SRK wiki*).[/list]
I believe a place where people can hang around and play is very important. Online is cool, but having an unknown tag as the enemy is different than having some real person beside you, who will then get in line to play again and will be able to talk to the other players while waiting for his turn.

*Damn, even the ST one is still far from complete, as most character sections have little or no match-up information. Not complaining - I have also not helped shit - but the fact remains.


#17

I agree. Community building is EXTREMELY important. That’s what we’ve been trying to do, if anyone has been in any of our tournaments, we can be thousands of miles apart, but when you JigglyNorris Super 720 Thelo FTW and everyone explodes on their mic… it’s pretty awesome.

I love HDR. I never played ST. I hadn’t played a SF2 game since Super came out on the genesis. BUT, I fell in love with HDR. I’m passionate about keeping this around and that’s what I’ve been trying to do and I will keep fighting to bring more people in, so we can all have more fun.

Besides, getting to play against Marsgatti2009, Damdai, Thelo, Jiggly, Bluetallcans, Zass, DJI on any basis makes for a good night. And I think I can say I’ve made some real friends in doing this so, maybe SF2 will die, but so help me, there will be a huge paragraph in the final chapter and it will have my name and these names on it.


#18

I want to elaborate on the divided community aspect of this discussion. The whole time people were divided between ST and HDR, but that’s not even getting into the regional aspect of the discussion. In the EC, people really don’t like HDR and it seems the majority of the support for this game is in the WC. I can safely say that there is virtually no interest in HD Remix in the greater New England region, and given how serious NY is about IV I doubt there scene is that much bigger (Justin doesn’t play, seems like the biggest names spreading the word for the game are Sabin and Damdai, the former who doesn’t really play it as much as IV overall from what Im gathering). Even if the other issues sorrounding this game are resolved, the REGIONAL divide will play a powerful role in keeping this game from getting anywhere. I recently quit HDR because Im facing the facts, from where Im standing the game is already dead (New England’s Major “Game Unicon” had more entries for Tournament Fighters than it did HDR for godsakes), and while I can see that some of the WC players still see some small enthusiasm, I can see from this thread that the prospects really aren’t improving at all. It’s a shame because the Japanese scene will always still have ST, but we probably won’t see SFII alive and well until yet another more expansive edition of the game is released, which at this point is pretty impossible, unless capcom of america outsources SFII back to Japan as they did with SFIV.

Im not as sad about it as I expected to be, because that’s the way things are. If something isn’t getting played its time to move on to the next thing. Fortunately for me I enjoy some of the other fighters that are getting some play, but I really feel for those of you who are exclusively SFII players, because for the foreseable future, the various controversies surrounding this game combined with the wall of hype that is SFIV are combining to create a ditch that SFII isn’t soon to climb out of, especially which our fragile scene. I personally decided to move on because the stress and frustration that Im witnessing with the community and the direction this game is going in simply isn’t worth my time anymore, and I can only hope that other players can do the same, because as I said, for all intents and purposes HDR is going to be an extremely scarce tournament game if at all.


#19

Agreed! It was amazing how the room exploded!


#20

That surprises me, not knowing the exact geographical locations of our players, the overwhelming majority of our North American players are in the Eastern Time Zone. We have three times as many EST pools as PST pools. If it was the West Coasters who were really all enthusiastic I would expect more of them to be supporting a collaborative effort to keep HDR kicking, but that hasn’t been the case at all.