Cammy General Discussion: To Bee or not to Bee

cammy

#3281

You’d be surprised at how often stare-downs end with a Cammy player going in only to get hit by a reactionary button. Players even whiff buttons for the purpose of countering a dash or walk up. s MK is invaluable in this case.

I won my local bi-weekly VS this Rachid player for the 3rd time! Like, total of 3 tournament wins, not in a row. I’m the chubby guy with glasses. He doesn’t like the Rachid VS Cammy matchup because of how easily Cammy gets out of the corner with her v reversal or hooligan into grab or other means like v trigger divekick. So he went with Abi GAIL! The other video might be pretty telling when it comes to the skill level in the tournament, however, lol!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nq3bKnn7_-8&feature=share https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ZflCyDAMtA


#3282

I swear every time I try to hooligan it just gets jabbed out, but somehow you get it to work. That round with Abagail where he let you do it three times in a row was triggering. You’re fucking Abagail! with a jab you can just mash repeatedly like a monkey and it will anti air anything for you and this guy does st mp :face palm: Not to mention he could have parried every single one of your jump ins free. He definitely let you live a number of times there. I’ve been running into a lot of high level Abagail’s lately and to me it’s not even a match, it’s a struggle to survive.


#3283

HCF+LP is pretty cool because if you do HCF+LP and immediately mash kick, Cammy does a really well placed, automatically timed divekick that is pretty likely to make opponents’ s LP miss. So it’s a mixup, sort of. They buffed Hooligan into divekick’s frames, too, so upon landing after it’s blocked, mash c LP and even if it looked badly placed you might get a hit confirm.

Special cancel into HCF+LP_HP off of a button that’s at the tail end of your blockstring. Like c MP, c MP, s HP > HCF+LP_HP. HCF+MP goes too high and far for this scenario, but is still useable for a crossup if that’s your goal, like to escape the corner. The thing is, people stand up to make Cammy’s divekick’s on block frames worse. You really should just crouch VS hooligan though LOL

VS “big” characters like Birdie and Abigail that use armor moves in the place of invincible reversal moves, you should throw way more often. Throws beat armor! Maybe he was trying to parry those hooligan grabs.

I’ve been using j HP way more often because I noticed it tends to beat out opponents’ ground buttons more than j HK. I play a lot of Casual Match and I often run into boosters who put their LK button on Turbo. Cammy’s j HK almost always trades with just about any characters’ s LK being mashed but j HP beats it out for a full jump in combo. Probably day 1 tech, but j MP has been praised too much I think. j HP and j LK of course because it crosses up are Cammy’s non divekick air moves of choice! It’s unfortunate though because j HK looks hawt af.

On stare down situations, a forward dash into delay tech, block then grab, is a good can opener. But I personally have trouble not always doing a back throw when I delay tech. It’s annoying VS cornered opponents. I should delay tech as db,N,LP+LK, not just db,LP+LK.


#3284

I use LP hooligan at times, but farther out to try to get that extra 2 frame advantage from the blocked hooligan dive kick. Up close it’s still unsafe to mashing jab or even on block. It’s funny you call it a buff considering what it was in season 1. It’s just +2 on block better than a regular dive kick but harder to place in the right spot as well since the opponent has time to walk while you’re doing it. Don’t get me wrong it works against those that aren’t use to it, but against good players it’s useless. It’s like you said they can just crouch block it or mash jab.

The best jump attack to use depends on the opponent and what anti air they tend to use. For example against most anti air st jabs cammys j hp and j hk will both lose or at best trade whereas the last active frame of j mp will beat it clean and fully combo. Another example, against Birdie if you go for instant dive kicks he can do mp to beat them. If you then do a j hk instead and he does mp at the timing to beat the divekick the j hk will force birdie to whiff as her hurt box is slightly retracted compared to the j hp allowing for a full combo. Against Bison’s cr jab, cammys j hp can beat it if done at max range whereas j mp may trade or j hk will lose outright. J hp is a strong option but each normal has it’s use. I just wish we had something to deal with st jabs when we try to cross them up. There seems to be nothing we can do about that to punish it and it usually puts them in a plus situation.

It’s funny that you say that because in tense stare down situations I’m waiting for you to do something like dash or jump, but I get why you do it. Dashing is hard to react to in this game especially online. For that reason I tend to do st lk, st mk/cr mk in those situations as I’m looking for the dash or trying to bait you to jump as I can recover in time to anti air.

I get the back throw in the delayed tech situations as well. It’s tough not too as you are usually doing it in a position where you are plus and are baiting the opponents reversal so you have to hold back for a split second and then tech. With practice it’s probably something you could condition yourself to do better.


#3285

Well Cammy’s regular divekicks were all nerfed by 1 frame and her MK divekick was nerfed by 2 frames and didn’t get me started on EX divekick which I almost never use now. Meanwhile they buffed the frames on hooligan into divekick!

You’re generalizing by putting j HK and j HP in the exact same category. A good well placed and timed anti air like Birdie’s c MP will always beat out jump ins. You should learn more about hitbox to hurtbox ratios. Jumps have big hurtboxes which is why anti air c LP can work. It isn’t that jabs are over powered. I don’t know why you think Cammy’s s LP is a good anti air. It’s the same speed, 4f, as b+MP. Cammy’s got a DP too…

Watching Alex Myers owning Japanese players in the Canadacup team tournament was so fruitful!

When Dhalsim left the ground, Alex would uf jump. Really smart. I hate Dhalsim because Cammy’s low life being quickly chipped away while also being pushed farther away each hit it so tough!

Wake-up backdash into c MK buffered into QCF+K was cool. Throw invincibility. I think c MK is still in range after a backdash though, so it might not be reliable.

Lots of c LP, b+MP usage. After a crossup j LK, an early j MP, after an anti air b+MP, dash, even as a meaty! Am I totally wasting Cammy’s potential by not using c LP, b+MP all day? Maybe.

In V Trigger, walk forwards, s MK. Seems overly simple, but in V Trigger, they’re very much expecting instant divekicks.

Nuckledu also did a cool noteworthy sequence. VS a cornered opponent with Guile, he did crossup j LK, pause, c LK, c LP, Flash Kick. After a VS a cornered opponent crossup j LK, the standard follow up is a back throw to put the opponent back into the corner. But after the crossup j LK their tech will get counterhit by the c LK c LP Special Move.


#3286

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/zrfUJzfMZ_4/maxresdefault.jpg


#3287

mk cannon strike block stun was reduced by 1 frame, hooligans were increased by 2 frames, EX dive kick and hooligan recovery frames were increased by 4 frames per the changes. I thought they were all nerfed as well but I guess not, just mk, but now that I recall we did only use mk dive kick in season 1 because it was the best one.

I’m not sure what you are referring to by me “generalizing jump ins”. I didn’t suggest that at all, but the opposite. You have to use the right normal for the right situation. I was saying when jumping in against opponents that use anti air st lp, not that Cammy should use st lp as an anti air, you should use these normals. I think you read that wrong. We are in agreement I was just saying you can’t just use jumping hp unfortunately as there are certain situations where it doesn’t work.

" I think c MK is still in range after a backdash though, so it might not be reliable." This is iffy I’ve had the cr mk whiff and block sometimes after back dash. I think it depends on their crouch block hit box size, so if they are standing it will whiff if they are crouching it will block. Definitely need to test against different characters to see when it will whiff or not so you can buffer.

Her jab TC combo is definitely better in scramble situations or where you would normally go for 2x jabs instead. For cross ups I changed to j lk, cr lp, b+mp TC xx mk SA to get a little more. I used to do j lk, cr mp, cr mp xx SA. The one thing I don’t like about the TC ender though is the different recovery on wake up as it messes with my meaty timings.

In v-trigger I mix in random st mk and cr mk pokes. They always get caught trying to walk or jump away as they are so scared of that VT dive kick. They usually just walk themselves into the corner at that point.


#3288

Hello again Cammy players and fans.

So I need some help with one combo I’m trying to get better on. After successfully hitting a dive kick with Cammy, I usually follow up with cr.lp -> Hk.SA. That’s one of the conversions I’m most comfortable with.

But now, I’m seeing a lot of players where (after they connect with her dive kick) they follow up with cr.lp, TC -> SA or DP or Ex Hooligan Dive kick. I would like to add this combo to my arsenal. However, I’m faced with a couple of challenges. Either I’m too far to link into her TC after cr.lp, or I hit the dive kick too high where they do block it so that puts me unsafe on block.

I believe the divekick placement will determine whether I can land this combo or not. Am I on the right track? Or any other tips? Thank you.


#3289

It requires you to hit in that unsafe spot unfortunately unless they are in the corner. In order for it to connect you have to have a good idea on where your divekick hit to confirm it into TC. It takes a lot of practice to get it right as you have to see where you hit them and confirm it’s a counter hit before going into it otherwise you will whiff or get blocked. The easiest set up is off a slow wake up as you can meaty them with a lk divekick right as they are getting up. If they hit a button you’ll get a counter hit deep enough that you can combo anything (I’ve gotten st mp, st hp after a few times) and if they block it still hits low enough to be safe (if you do it perfectly it’s plus). The timing and spacing can be a little tricky at first to learn but you do it at about the distance you would normally shimmy to make them whiff a grab. At that distance do an instant lk dive kick right as they are getting up. If you time it right it will hit them meaty, or be plus on block. It only works on slow rise or hard knockdown though, so after a CC sweep for example.


#3290

Most of the time you’ll want to only do c lp or c mp after a successful divekick. I almost never use b+mp in divekick combos because b+mp has short range. I like Xiaohai’s option of c lp, s lp after a divekick. s lp’s range is good and adds a lot of stun. VS a cornered opponent, add even more stun by using DP instead of drill. Takes a bit more execution though.

You’ll have to use c mp or even s hp after some divekick placements.

After a blocked divekick, 2 great blockstrings are c lp, c lp, c mp, c mk or c lp, s lp, walk a bit, s mp, c mk, that second one not requiring a counterhit. But the first blockstring is far better as the opponent can only invincible reversal interrupt the c mp. Mix in throws and BOOM you’re a Cammy.

Are your instant divekicks good? I do them as f,uf,HCB+K.

Good posts, Suntzu :slight_smile:


#3291

After seeing the latest trailer for Street Fighter 5: Arcade Edition, I’m even more hyped than ever. The new V-Triggers are really going to be a game-changer. Each of them varies from combo extenders, mix-ups, or new moves for the characters. It’s too bad we didn’t see Cammy’s newest V-Trigger in the trailer. I am looking forward to trying out all of them, especially Cammy’s.

Speaking of which, (I know we talked about this earlier), but I can only imagine what her 2nd V-Trigger will be. Is it going to be a combo extender (i.e. Nash’s, Ed’s)? How about a combo mix-up (i.e. R. Mika)? Or will Cammy receive a new ability (i.e. Birdie’s, Ibuki’s)? All we do know is that Cammy’s 2nd V-Trigger is going to be 3 bars; so in order to achieve it, she will have to lose a significant amount of her health?

What are your thoughts, Cammy players/fans/lovers? What do you speculate her V-Trigger will be and how will it balance with her previous?


#3292

If it is a combo extender it has to be really really damaging. I couldn’t see us using a 3 bar v-trigger that didn’t have some serious comeback ability. Think about all of the good 3 bar v-triggers in the game. They all have some serious damage and/or mix up potential. If we don’t get something like that no one will use the 3 bar over the 2. I just hope she gets something because she feels so bare bones compared to so many others in the cast right now.


#3293

Why is it that after a divekick lands I can combo with a crmp, and sometimes I cannot even combo with a crlp?

Educate me. I’m a scrub. Lol.


#3294

@edmund Easiest explanation is the divekick that allowed you to combo cr mp was a counter hit vs a normal hit. In SFV when you land a counter hit (that is when you hit them with your attack in the start up animation of their attack) you receive a few extra frames of hit advantage which allows you to do combos you couldn’t normally do.

To break it down a little further. cr lp has a 3 frame startup and cr mp has a 5 frame startup. When you hit them with a divekick that is NOT a counter hit you have a +3 frame advantage which allows you to do a combo with cr lp. When you hit them with a divekick that is a counter hit you have +5 frame advantage which allows you to combo with cr mp. However, these + frames vary depending upon the height at which your divekick lands as well as what type you are using (ex, hooligan, regular). In most situations if you aim for the thighs or below you should be safe to always combo into cr lp when a dive kick hits. With some practice you’ll start to notice when you interrupt their attack (they did a sweep or anti air too late) and will know you can do cr mp instead of the cr lp.


#3295

Thanks sun tzu!

There were a couple times I couldn’t even connect crlp after a divekick and it cost me my match as I did a crlp and spiral arrow after the divekick.

And I’m trying to find out why. Probably I hit the divekick too high.


#3296

@edmund This is from last season so the mk version is 1 frame less than what is shown here and EX is 4 frames less, but this will give you an idea of where you can hit the divekick and how plus or minus it is on block. Listen to the voice and you’ll here the plus or minus frames. Anything zero or plus is where you want to hit the dive kick. It takes practice but you will be able to do it constantly as well as confirm off of it eventually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQDmgvzSQ9s


#3297

At the range c lp can’t reach, c mp will, or in extreme cases s hp, but mostly c mp, after a successful divekick.


#3298

I agree SunTzu. A 3 bar v-trigger should give Cammy some type of comeback potential, just like with Urien’s Aegis, Ibuki’s bombs, Necali V-Trig, etc. I’m thinking that the balance for this and Cammy’s original is the damage she has to take to acquire it. Are you willing to risk more than half of your life to give yourself a full v-gauge?

What about for crouching opponent’s? I’m having trouble determining whether Cammy is safe or not if the opponent crouch blocks her divekick


#3299

@Happy_Birthday_Rika If they crouch block the divekick they did you a favor as it’s much easier to be plus on block that way as you have less frames before you land on the ground. If you land anywhere in front of them and not directly on their head you should be 0 or plus in those situations.


#3300

I like using sthk as an anti air. Is that bad?

I use bmp too if it’s a deep jump in.

My friends are telling me it’s better to just anti air with her dp but pressing sthk to anti air has become a habit