Cammy General Discussion: To Bee or not to Bee

cammy

#3341

I wrote airthrow :confused:


#3342

BTW I’m only following the game from afar, but if you want specific info to get into the first post send me a pm with the whole thing, I’ll past it there.


#3343

@sharnt What?


#3344

Just saying as the author of the thread if people want some kind of guide/whatever in the first post for people to find I’d gladly put it there.

That’s all.

Well I think it was more of a thing in SF4 era.


#3345

@sharnt Oh ok it was just so non sequitur that’s why I was like what are you talking about.

@Cipher my bad you did. Guess I glanced over it after heck.


#3346

Imagine the c LP blockstring possibilities with reduced pushback. c LP x3, c MP, c MK lol

I intentionally condition myself to use DP exclusively as anti air. I’ve been playing sf since sf2. I’ll always be a Ryu main at heart. I’m always going with my since 1996 DP AA muscle memory.

I do use b+MP VS Bison’s EX Devil’s Reverse, which b+MP beats without trades. I think b+MP single handedly tips the matchup to Cammy’s favor. If Cammy lost her b+MP and had to use slow s HK or crush counterable, incorrect angle MK DP, I’d say Bison wins VS Cammy.


#3347

Ryus best AA DP has been M DP for a long time.

Tell me why it is so hard for you to do this with Cammy?
And why are you now trying to change the topic? :confused:


#3348

Shut up Cipher Ryu’s DP is not ranged differently like Cammy’s. I’m on topic: season 3 changes.


#3349

It isn’t?
Strange I remember H having more forward movemeant than M and L, while L is basicly where you stand and M moves you slightly forward.
Yeah just tested it it is like this.
They have different ranges.

Don’t tell me to shut up, when you can’t defend your points.


#3350

So here is some more footage of Cammy’s 2nd V-Trigger in action through Arcade Mode. The actual name is called ‘Delta Advance’.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nD2WXbqha68

So we get to see some combos Cammy can perform once she connects with her Reverse Edge overhead kick, like cr.lp > SA or cr.mp > SA.

It’s very handy when you activate it off of your combos or blockstrings. The mixups does come from the Delta Ambush when Cammy jumps at her opponents. Keeping opponents guessing whether she will grab or overhead. However, if Cammy guesses wrong, then she’ll be punished. Also, I think the Delta Ambush is a terrible way to approach opponents. They will have all day to counter Cammy in the air.

Now the Delta Step seems likely the option Cammy players will utilize as a way to keep the pressure going. If you condition them to stay on their heels during blockstrings, then the dash can be very effective way to close in for another reset combo or throw. But do keep in mind that the dash seems unsafe so if the opponent is scouting it, then that could be trouble. I’ve also noticed that her Delta Step drains more V-Gauge than her Delta Ambush does.

So I know this isn’t much, but what do you think so far?


#3351

Now I know what her V-Trigger reminds me off, that seemed so familiar the whole time.
Decapres scrambel.

Duo to the mixed Infos we got and the fact that the PSX build will probably not be the final one, we should keep our heads a bit down till we have AE and can test for ourselfs.

As a sidenote, Cammy is supposed to get a Jill Valentine costume from Extra Battle.
Wonder what Jill costume we will get, my hope is it will be BSAA Jill.


#3352

VT2 looks like complete trash in this video. Granted these guys seem to not know her that well but a lot of things stood out to me.

First the Delta Ambush can be anti aired. This is pretty BS considering you already have a hooligan that does pretty much the exact same thing, so why give her a move that is supposed to force a 50/50 only for it to be easily interrupted? This is even more shocking to me considering it’s punishable on block. Isn’t that what the trade off is supposed to be for forcing a 50/50? You are supposed to either lose or win, but they made it so you can completely stop the guess on something that requires Cammy do be near death to even try it? The balance on this makes even less sense when you compare it to Akuma’s Demon Flip into Palm that is essentially the same thing and not negative on block for no meter. What was Capcom going for here with this new hooligan type move that is negative on block and leads into very little damage when Cammy is already near KO? Unless they make this invincible while in air or let it combo into more that a lp I don’t see how this will be viable at all.

Second, Delta Ambush can combo into cr lp on hit, but can still whiff. Cr lp xx SA is unconfirmable and requires a plink cancel on whiff to buffer correctly. This just sets you up to whiff your ender when already near death. Granted these guys may have just been bad at spacing it or something, but I’d assume Capcom would make a combo guaranteed on hit like it is with Balrog’s overhead. You can’t expect us to go for an already risky 50/50 and then get fucked when we guess right. That is straight BS.

Third, Delta Step isn’t plus enough on light or mediums attacks to extend combo and even appears to be negative even on hit… so what the fuck is the point of this move? You might as well just dash normally. My friend who was there said she could do cr hp delta step cr lp which is shit compared to VT1. Why would you even use VT2 then if we only get a cr lp combo from a cr hp hit? I only see this move being viable if we can do cr mk VT2 delta step into cr mp combo at least. If we can’t get at least something like that from it there is no way VT2 is going to have any chance of being used over VT1.

I’m trying to remain hopeful that we just haven’t figured out what is possible yet, but they definitely need to adjust something if it’s going to be that easy to anti air the delta ambush.


#3353

I rarely post here even though i alt Cammy while i main Juri.

How do you people deal with Birdie and Gief ? Real talk ,i find these two to be some of the hardest to beat as Cammy. Birdie’s insane damage on Cammy’s low hp and his long buttons give me a lot of issues.

Legit talk i find Birdie much easier as Juri then Cammy, even though Cammy is considered much higher tier.


#3354

@skort You find the match up easier against birdie most likely because Juri has a fireball.

The problem with these two match ups in particular for Cammy is she has to get close to get damage and has low life in comparison. Birdie has longer range normals which makes them harder to whiff punish with Cammy’s shorter range normals (This makes spacing and timing harder for Cammy to do correctly than Birdie, although it can be done.) A majority of his normals also have their hit box in front of the hurt box so he tends to win even in trade situations so you can’t really blindly whiff in front of him to try and catch something as Cammy’s hurt box is generally in front of her hit box meaning he will beat her out the majority of time. His cr lp is really good at keeping her you out or pushing her out because of this. Even at 5 frames of startup and plus 2 on block it has a 3 frame gap so Cammy should be able to interrupt with her 3 frame cr lp, but she can’t because his hit box is in front of his hurt box and cammys is reversed. All of this combined means she usually has to take a risk or make a hard read to get in by either jumping/dive kicking in off a read normal allowing you to jump in safely, dashing in if you see a gap allowing you to do so, or even yoloing a spiral arrow to try and whiff punish something like a v skill attempt or a whiffed st hk from range. The only other times she is getting in is if the Birdie player makes a mistake of going for a lunge, armor move, or bad use of bull head/bull horn/bull revenger/chain. Smart birdies will not risk this, so you will have to figure out how to approach in the neutral without getting counter poked and random EX bull headed/bull revengered to death. Once you get a knockdown you do have the upper hand, but keep in mind he can EX Bull horn to beat a string or even EX Killing Head command grab for some serious damage to beat your grab attempt. So if he just blocks everything and you switch to grab it’s not entirely easy pressure as he has two different interrupts that do good damage and give oki. If they are a good birdie player with solid reads it’s even tougher to win in this match. It’s definitely hard for Cammy, but if you can get a solid read on your opponent and bait them into making mistakes, like teching so you can shimmy or baiting EX Bull Horn so you can block punish for example, it becomes a much easier match to win. While it’s slightly favored towards Birdie it does usually come down to the players and not the character that wins that match.

One thing I will note is the best punish for Birdies Bull head on block is B+mp, st Hk xx MK Spiral Arrow. That move has a lot of push back and you’d think b+mp would whiff but it’s your best most damaging punish for the bull head. This however changes when he is in v-trigger, in which case you have to do cr mk xx SA as b+mp will whiff. Also there is only one punish for EX bull head and that is CA because of push back, if you are going to do anything after an EX bull head only do st mk which will be blocked to stop his follow and keep him out. If you hit any other normal it will whiff and he will punish you with a st mp into huge damage. Birdies just do EX bull head in the neutral because they can and want you to hit a button after so they can whiff punish it. It’s a bait so don’t fall for it.

As for Gief stay out and whiff punish all of his normals (much easier to do than Birdies because his hurt box is in front of his hit box on the longer range normals he likes to mash like cr lp. Just go one priority higher than what he is using, mp over lp hp over mp and hp to whiff punish his hards like his charged hp). Do not jump on him and never let him jump in or walk forward on you (mk DP is solid against pretty much all of his jump ins, while st hk can be used if you have a good read to crush counter his jump in, you can b+mp too but if he empty jumps expect it to whiff and SPD as he lands. St mk and cr mk are great at keeping him out, while st mp and st hp are great at whiff punishing his normals). If you get hit into a knock down or EX SPD pray you can guess right off the 50/50 situation that follows otherwise you will be KO’d within 1-2 hits/knockdowns. This is where knowing this Giefs player tendencies come into play, as knowing when to jump back or block matters a lot. I never recommend EX dping on walk up in this match as if he blocks it’s a guaranteed stun into KO (one of the reason I’ve been asking for Cammy to get 950 stun). If he sucks you in on v-trigger, not from a knockdown, he is at least -3 so you can cr lp TC xx Mk Spiral Arrow for a good punish. Last thing of note. If he has CA, be very wary of doing block strings. It’s basically a 1 frame startup invincible DP that cannot be blocked that does 60% of your life, so yeah if they want to scrub out the win with some churned butter they can fairly easily. Just be cautious if you see the CA or stay out and whiff punish as usual. If you watch high level matches against Gief they usually go to the last 10 seconds because he has to be slow played like this.

In general Cammy vs Grapplers is not fun, but that’s her counter basically. We can’t have all good match ups.


#3355

Hey everyone. So EH has released the patch notes changes for most of the characters. Here’s what they said about Cammy.

Cammy
Gyro Clipper (Forward Throw)
• Stun has been changed from 200 to 150.

Delta Through (Back Throw)
• Damage has been increased from 130 to 140.

Neck Spiral (Air Throw)
• Damage has been increased from 130 to 150.

Standing Light Punch
• Hitbox has been changed.
• Adjusted the move’s collision box during movement.
• Pushback on hit has been increased.
• Pushback on block has been increased.
• Now has 3 frame startup instead of 4 frames when cancelled into.

Standing Medium Kick
• Recovery has been increased from 13 frames to 15 frames (no changes have been made to hitstun or blockstun).

Standing Heavy Kick
• Hitstun has been increased from +2 to +4.
• Adjusted the move’s collision box during movement.
• Hurtbox has been changed.
• Can now hit opponent’s that are behind Cammy as well.

Crouching Light Punch
• Hitbox has been changed.
• Hurtbox has been changed.
• Pushback on hit has been increased (the pushback is further when chained).
• Pushback on block has been increased (the pushback is further when chained).
• Adjusted the move’s collision box during movement.

Crouching Light Kick
• Adjusted the move’s collision box during movement.
• Pushback on hit has been increased.
• Pushback on block has been increased.

Crouching Heavy Punch
• Hurtbox has been changed.

Crouching Heavy Kick
• Hurtbox has been changed.

Jumping Medium Punch
• Hitbox has been changed.
• Hurtbox has been changed.

Jumping Heavy Punch
• Hitbox has been changed.
• Hurtbox has been changed.

Jumping Heavy Kick
• Hitbox has been changed.
• Hurtbox has been changed.

Lift Upper
• Hitbox has been changed.
• Hurtbox has been changed.

Axel Spin Knuckle (V-Skill)
• Hitstun has been increased from +6 frames to +7 frames.

Strike Back (V-Reversal)
• Is now -4 instead of -2 when blocked.

Delta Drive (V-Trigger)
• Her V-Trigger’s active time has been extended.
• Her V-Trigger exclusive moves now drain more of her V-Trigger bar.

So what do you think Cammy players and fans? I believe she’s going to be more nerfed than buffed when AE is released.


#3356

St.hk hitting behind Cammy should be hilariously funny looking. B.mp box changes worries me.

I agree it looks more like a nerf but our max damage in stun combos went up with the st.hk change. Also no throw loops and nerfs on reset characters are a pretty good thing for Cammy in general.


#3357

Here are my thoughts on these changes italicized.

Cammy
Gyro Clipper (Forward Throw)
• Stun has been changed from 200 to 150.
Makes us weaker to down back and those who refuse to tech

Delta Through (Back Throw)
• Damage has been increased from 130 to 140.
Nice little plus for when we throw them into the corner

Neck Spiral (Air Throw)
• Damage has been increased from 130 to 150.
*Doesn’t matter, move is still complete trash. Best time to bait a jump is when they are in the corner but if you use this it puts you in the corner. Even trying to use it to stop cross ups is a gamble as most normals still beat out it’s range and speed. *

Standing Light Punch
• Hitbox has been changed.
Probably lowered so anti air jab never works.
• Adjusted the move’s collision box during movement.
No more extra counter hit push back I think? I’m seeing this on a lot of the normals that have it so maybe they are trying to fix it this season.
• Pushback on hit has been increased.
• Pushback on block has been increased.
No more 3 button light strings st lk, cr lp, st lp, cr mp/st mp? Damn this would SUCK.
• Now has 3 frame startup instead of 4 frames when cancelled into.
Wait does this mean cr lp to st lp is a true block string now?

Standing Medium Kick
• Recovery has been increased from 13 frames to 15 frames (no changes have been made to hitstun or blockstun).
*They’re making it easier to whiff punish, not like it wasn’t before at 24 frames. The current whiff punish threshold for most is around 21 frames when you factor in input delay and human response time. This change just bumped it up to 26 frames. Be very wary of whiffing this move come season 3. Gief is going to be able to eat this shit for lunch with SPDs on reaction if you whiff it in front of him. *

Standing Heavy Kick
• Hitstun has been increased from +2 to +4.
*When I read this last night I thought it was medium kick and not heavy, but I think I like this more. This change has me excited as it may potentially mean we can get more off a st hk CC dash. Currently st Hk CC dash allows for a b+mp at best, but if they give us +2 frames on counter hit we may be able to do st mp combos after a CC dash. This may make st hk more viable in the neutral rather than just for punishes. *
• Adjusted the move’s collision box during movement.
Counter hit push back adjustment. You could get saved with how this move got hit sometimes.
• Hurtbox has been changed.
Hmm to be bigger most likely to be easier to whiff punish. Fuck it may not be worth using in neutral then as it still whiffs on crouchers.
• Can now hit opponent’s that are behind Cammy as well.
*Finally I don’t have to worry about Ex devil reverse or Flying Barcelona miraculously going behind me at the last second making this whiff. Oh it may cover both of Zeku’s bushin flips as well. I like this change. Makes it a much better anti air option. *

Crouching Light Punch
• Hitbox has been changed.
• Hurtbox has been changed.
• Pushback on hit has been increased (the pushback is further when chained).
• Pushback on block has been increased (the pushback is further when chained).
• Adjusted the move’s collision box during movement.
*Now this is odd. This is the exact opposite of what Alex Myers said where he was able to tic throw off cr lp. Maybe they made it less when you do only one hit, but more if you do it from a chain? This could be a scary change as double light confirms are a big thing for Cammy and if you make it where the second lp whiffs you’re basically screwed out of 30-40% of your life as you’re ender will be blocked. I may be wrong here and my hope is they mean when you hit with the second cr lp you are pushed farther out but spiral arrow still hits. Meaning it would be much harder to do cr lp, cr lp walk forward grab with this change which I think is fair. *

Crouching Light Kick
• Adjusted the move’s collision box during movement.
• Pushback on hit has been increased.
• Pushback on block has been increased.
So our only low check has more of a chance to whiff the cr lp when people are trying to walk back? This change sounds terrible. With all of these extra push back changes does this mean st lk, cr lk, cr lp will no longer work? If that is the case expect everyone to just walk away from you now. Do they expect us to just confirm off cr mk now to stop walk backs?

Crouching Heavy Punch
• Hurtbox has been changed.

Crouching Heavy Kick
• Hurtbox has been changed.
*These are undoubtable changes to heavy attacks to make them easier to whiff punish. *

Jumping Medium Punch
• Hitbox has been changed.
• Hurtbox has been changed.

Jumping Heavy Punch
• Hitbox has been changed.
• Hurtbox has been changed.

Jumping Heavy Kick
• Hitbox has been changed.
• Hurtbox has been changed.

Lift Upper
• Hitbox has been changed.
• Hurtbox has been changed.
I believe all of these changes to jumps are so anti air jabs will no longer win, but b+mp will still anti air like it should. I’m laughing thinking about how high this hit box is going to go up now and how low the hurt box will be. Good fucking luck crossing us up now. LOL

Axel Spin Knuckle (V-Skill)
• Hitstun has been increased from +6 frames to +7 frames.
*This is a good buff. With this change you can now do cr mk reliably as a punish for when v skill hits farther out. When trading with stuff like nash’s fireball the pull back would make cr mp/st mp whiff randomly and cr mk was only possible on counter hit, so if you hit them at the wrong time you actually couldn’t punish and even risked a blocked ender if you screwed up your buffer. This change guarantees you a hit regardless of when or where it hit. It also means you can go for a cr hk knockdown as well, so this may allow for reliable cr hk meaty setups. If the change also make counter hits +9 we may be able to link st hk and cr hp after as well which again depending on distance could net more damage from a v trigger activation. *

Strike Back (V-Reversal)
• Is now -4 instead of -2 when blocked.
*Always thought this v-reversal sucked and now I think it sucks even more. I see this hurting a lot of Cammy players as now there will literally be no good escape. Go ahead EX DP they say, and then watch it get blocked and die for spending one bar and making one wrong guess. It’s still usable but you have to confirm it off a medium or hard now. Any light pressure in the corner is going to be a nightmare to deal with. *

Delta Drive (V-Trigger)
• Her V-Trigger’s active time has been extended.
• Her V-Trigger exclusive moves now drain more of her V-Trigger bar.
*More time to use v-trigger, still only two charges. But hey guys Akuma got one air fireball charge taking away so he is more even with us now at least. *

So what do you think Cammy players and fans? I believe she’s going to be more nerfed than buffed when AE is released.

It all depends on what these pushback changes mean exactly and if it will effect her pressure shimmy game. The grab nerf doesn’t help as people will be less scared of her grabbing you to be stunned which makes it harder to condition them to tech so we can get some damage off a shimmy. Neutral should be more rewarding as our st hp is still fast but didn’t get a hurt box change meaning it should be better at catching some whiffed heavies out there in the neutral. We do run an extra risk with our best poke, st mk, being slower though so that could make us have to get in slightly closer which is riskier in match ups that have longer ranger normals like Birdie and Karin. Overall I think our bad matchups will get worse and our good match ups will get better.


#3358

Capcom called these notes 3 times back now.

I don’t have any opinion till the final notes get out.


#3359

@SunTzu81 St.lk cr.lk is not a chain. If pushback really was only increased in chains it wouldn’t affect the string since the second chain hit (cr/st lp) is already the last one.

But stlk crlp bmp is probably rip.


#3360

@carups It just says on block or hit for cr lk or are you saying there is no push back because the st lk can be linked to the cr lk or something like that? The chain pushback change is only mentioned on cr lp so I don’t think it applies to st lk to cr lk. My concern is after st lk the cr lk pushes back further making the cr lp whiff. Since there is no way to confirm off just a cr lk if you commit to the cr lp into SA you are going to be pretty screwed. I’ve literally had this happen in lag where the character somehow miraculously is able to micro walk in between a st lk, cr lk block string making the jab whiff with the spiral arrow still coming out because of it’s much smaller buffer window. The only fix to this it to plink the cancel so it falls within the buffer window of the cr lp as not to come out unless cr lp hits. If this change is true we may be forced to do just cr lk to cr lp for it to connect and maybe that’s what capcom wants. Maybe they don’t want us to be able to threaten with a tic grab and a low at the same time. This way you’ll either have to commit to the grab or commit to the low but not both. Although the tic grab does covers both options so I’m not really sure what the point of that would be except for denying additional Oki as the damage is about the same either way.

Also st lk cr lp bmp doesn’t work half the time now because of counter hit on some normals. I confirm off st lk into bmp now as if st lk hits you can go into TC and if not you can confirm a counter hit bmp into st hp while you can’t if you use cr lp instead. It was one of the changes I made to dealing with Necalli on wake up as his jab causes extra counter hit pushback.