Cammy General Discussion: To Bee or not to Bee

cammy

#3461

She doesn’t really have any viable resets. If you mean how does she continue pressure, that is from knockdowns from spiral arrow mainly or from throws in the corner as you can meaty the opponent on wake up. You can also extend pressure slightly by doing micro walks in block strings.


#3462

is giving your self space to see how the opponent approaches u a good tatic to employ.


#3463

Yes, but don’t give up so much space that you are putting yourself in the corner. It should be just enough to cause the opponent to whiff their longest poke at most. At that point you should be able to see if they like to chase you (walk forward, dash or jump) or if they try and poke with a specific normal. Based upon what they do you can use that information to set something up later on (whiff punish, interrupt the dash, anti air)


#3464

can u do crush counter frame traps in this game.


#3465

Yes. An example with Cammy is st lk, st hk. If they try and delay tech the st hk will crush counter the grab. Be careful though because if they don’t tech and block low the st hk will whiff or if they do a quick jab instead of a delay tech the st hk will lose.


#3466

I’m glad to see Cammy highly represented in tournaments. Verloren, NL, Kazunoko, GamerBee, etc. are consistently playing our favorite British fighter at a high level. I even see a lot of pro still considering Cammy as a top tier character, regardless of the buffs other characters received coughAbigailcough, or the indirect nerfs Cammy got.

That being said, do any of you Cammy players consider Cammy as being a ‘boring’ character; that she’s too straightforward or honest? I know she’s not equipped with a true 50/50 mixup or a solid V-Trigger. But she has fundamental gameplan with solid tools againsnt almost every character. I don’t think Cammy even has a bad matchup in SFV. (I thought Abigail was her only worst matchup, but not anymore thanks to NL’s double perfect against StormKubo)

So, is Cammy a ‘boring’ character?


#3467

So new balance patches out everyone. Check out Candy’s.

Cammy

Hurtbox
Expanded her upwards hurtbox while crouching
Stun
Increased from 900 to 950
Gyro Clipper (Forward Throw)
Damage increased from 120 to 130
Stun decreased from 150 to 120
Delta Through (Backwards Throw)
Damage increased from 140 to 150
Crouching LK
Increased the pushback on hit
Lift Upper
Can be canceled from during Delta Ambush and Delta Step while V-Trigger II is active
L Cannon Spike
Invincible to airborne attacks from 1F to 6F
V Cannon Spike
Can cancel into V Canon Strike on hit
Delta Step/Delta Ambush
Number of V-Trigger blocks reduced from 3 to 2
The V-Timer will be completely consumed upon using the special moves Delta Step and Delta Ambush
Delta Twist
Expanded the downwards hurtbox
Reverse Edge
Damage increased from 70 to 80
The second attack will be considered a mid attack
The recovery on block will be the same as on hit
Recovery on block decreased from -11F to -5F
Active frames 1F and 2F will be able to hit grounded opponents
Developer Notes: Increased options by making it possible to perform Cannon Strike from Cannon Spike during Delta Drive. Additionally, Delta Ambush and Delta Step have been changed to a 2-bar V-Gauge, so the move properties and V-timer consumption have been updated accordingly.

Looks like her V2 has become a bit more viable now that it’s 2 bar.


#3468

This new forum is absolute Shit. It looks like garbage it navigates like garbage and the way to reply is garbage too.

I resetet my password just to be able to get back into this hot pile of shit.

So patchnotes, ahem.
Hurtbox
Expanded her upwards hurtbox while crouching
Hurtboxes need to be unified across the board, we’re now as big as Abigial when he crouches.

Stun
Increased from 900 to 950
We still have a fragile ass, but now with more stun.

Gyro Clipper (Forward Throw)
Damage increased from 120 to 130
Stun decreased from 150 to 120
Delta Through (Backwards Throw)
Damage increased from 140 to 150
The patchnotes say, that character who don’t get much out of their throws recived better reward from them.
We got a bit more damage, for less stun on Forward Throw.

Crouching LK
Increased the pushback on hit
I saw this note a lot. But I think they want to kill our light combo with this.
Just my conspirincing theory.

Lift Upper
Can be canceled from during Delta Ambush and Delta Step while V-Trigger II is active
Is this supposed to give us a left/right High/Low gimmick after an anti-air? I think so.

L Cannon Spike
Invincible to airborne attacks from 1F to 6F
Forest got what he wanted, also we got even more anti-airs now.
Quick someone make a picture with Cammy as AA gun.

V Cannon Spike
Can cancel into V Canon Strike on hit
We got an Anime Combo now, wonder how much this will be worth.

Delta Step/Delta Ambush
Number of V-Trigger blocks reduced from 3 to 2
The V-Timer will be completely consumed upon using the special moves Delta Step and Delta Ambush
So they made it 2 bars and fucked it completly with the second change.
The easaly stuffed and beaten VT with unsafe specials and a shitty commandgrab, is now completly gone after 1 time use.
The fuck are they actualy smoking?

Delta Twist
Expanded the downwards hurtbox
Reverse Edge
Damage increased from 70 to 80
The second attack will be considered a mid attack
The recovery on block will be the same as on hit
Recovery on block decreased from -11F to -5F
Active frames 1F and 2F will be able to hit grounded opponents
Hmm a bigger hurtbox on the Commandgrab, good work on maeking it even worse.
Still an unsafe Overhead that isn’t a true overhead, while so much character still run around with nonsensical VT’s that are easier to use, with a lot less risk and bigger payoff.

Overall, this looks like it won’t change anything, when’s Falke?


#3469

You think so Cipher? I think Cammy got buffed again. Insert Happy Dance Her L DP has some invincibility against airborne attacks now. 950 on stun is a slight improvement.

And I also see that her V DP can link into V Divekick on hit. Now Cammy can still continue pressure after DP instead of returning to neutral. Perhaps a possible crossup with st.lp/lk after hit? We’ll see.

But her biggest changes come from the improvements on her V2. Sure it’s not as reliable as V1 still, but still much better. It’s now a 2 bar trigger which is what I think she needed.


#3470

She’s winning tourneys now because solid fundamental play has become stronger since the bs random 50/50 crush counter stuff has been toned down. These adjustments have allowed the more solid player to win matches vs squeaking out a win with BS tactics. Since she’s fundamentally based and doesn’t have a lot of options for each situation she is seen as basic and therefore boring to players that are used to doing long/difficult combos or having a lot of different options to choose from depending upon the situation. For a beginner cammy is not boring, or an OG who’s played a lot of fighters she’s probably boring.


#3471

Cammy is boring in a good way though. Like 3S Chun was simple and boring but she had little nuances and executions to her where the player could still stand out.

This Cammy is most relateable to CVS2 Cammy or what would happen if ST Cammy was actually good. You’re not going to get a ton of fancy smancy setups, micro walk/juggle combos or stance switch shit, but she has a lot of individual tools that work at different times. She has enough nuance in her neutral and confirms where she can still be a solid character that gets thing done while seeing enough of how the player uses that character. Like Verloren and NL use different block strings and angle their air approaches a bit differently from each other.

With Necalli I dont feel you really get that though. He’s like the true boring create a character where there’s nothing about him that some other character doesn’t have. An overhead that crush counters is literally the only thing that stands out about him that’s unique. Which is why both Haitani and Gamerbee simply dropped him “because he’s boring”.

Although Cammy is boring she’s still nuanced and solid enough that nobody is dropping her simply because she is boring.


#3472

Well, I was skeptic about Cammy when S3 patch notes were just dropped, but her results in S3 proved me wrong. I guess the less unga gameplay, the stronger emphasis on the neutral and the players just getting better (Verloren and NL have done nothing but improving over the months) really ended up making Cammy shine.

… And then Capcom buffs her. I guess games with “Arcade Edition” in their name give Cammy luck.
The nerf to crLK might actually be a major nerf, but I think it’s outdone by her buffs elsewhere and the overall meta shift. The Top 3 looks made up of Guile, Menat and Cammy, and I think she can handle both of them decently enough.

The worse part is that Cammy is the villain of the season now, we’re likely getting nerfed in S4.
Guess we either win EVO this year or never again.


#3473

I just tried Cammy’s newest combo with V DP > V Divekick and compared it to her previous combo with V Drill > V DP. Here’s what I’ve found out.

The Drill > DP combo does +2 more damage and +7 more stun than the DP > Divekick combo. The DP > Divekick combo does a side switch, unless in the corner. But what’s great about the DP > Divekick combo is how close Cammy is to her opponent when they both hit the ground. This is useful for Cammy because she can continue pressure against her opponents.

On top of that, I’ve seen videos where you can activate CA after Cammy comes down from her V Divekick after V DP. However, it only works on a certain combo after raw activation. Other combos, it doesn’t link into CA or even EX DP.

Also tried the Lift Upper to VT2 and it does link into cr.lp, TC, seems to be +4 on block as well.


#3474

I turned on SFV today and did nothing but anti air lk dp over and over on every jump in. GOD does it feel good for the auto correct to actually hit again and not whiff for a CC punish into half your life/stun.

“Also tried the Lift Upper to VT2 and it does link into cr.lp, TC, seems to be +4 on block as well.”

This only works on the first activation sadly. The benefit is it allows us to extend your cr lp, b. b.mp combo one more time if you want. So you could do a meaty st lk, cr lp, b. mp VTII dash, cr. lp, b.mp, st hk, SA or CS but the damage scaling makes it not worth it. You’re still better off going into the full TC and going for another meaty setup. I think there maybe a use for it as an anti into delta ambush as it makes it more ambiguous, but it’s still slow. I will be testing setups to see what’s viable when I get a chance.

New VT1 link seems to allow anti air dp into dive kick CA, but it has to hit in a certain spot to work. If you catch them too deep it won’t let the CA connect, so you have to catch them at about a height that st hk would hit (you’ll know you hit right if the dive kicks miss a few hits on the way down). You can also go add CA to the end of her TC into VT DP VT DK now, but it’s not worth it. It’s better to save those charges unless 27 extra damage will get you the kill.


#3475

At least we’ll see other players try out Cammy’s 2nd VT. Of course it’s not as strong as her first VT, but at least it’ll give us more variety. Plus it’s 2 bars which means we can potentially get to use it twice in one round.


#3476

I think that Cammy is now the best character in the game. Obviously she’s top tier and has a good or even matchup against a majority of the cast. But what makes it even better is that she can also beat other top tier characters, such as Guile or even Menat. It also helps that other strong characters such as Akuma, Rashid and Abigail got nerfed too.


#3477

No Cammy is not boring. She’s loads of fun to play when you know what you’re doing. She can switch up her style and approach better than anyone else. And plus, how is she anymore boring than say Chun, Vega, Nash, Sakura, Guile, Karin, Alex, Gief, the shotos, etc. I swear those characters are beyond boring, especially Vega and Chun. Sakura is so damn boring too. Like Chun is just straightforward as hell, and 10x more linear than Cammy. Vega is literally the definition of boring. Sakura is dry as all hell and so uninteresting, she’s a poor mans Cammy. See where I’m getting at? There are 24+ characters that are super boring compared to Cammy.


#3478

I want to open this post, with the point, that this forum is still shit.
I need a signature that literaly has a song about how bad this garbage it compared to the last one.

That out of the way, I want to say how much I hate Vesper for his garbage videos and his trash opinion.

Now to the beef.
VT2 is still dogshit.
The new dive followup, after a VT DP is actual pretty dope. It allows for a meaty right after.
I didn’t notice the cr.lk nerf at all. I do st.lk, cr.lk, st.lp and it still works without a problem.
Haha autocorrecting DP, even more anti-airs, wonder when the opponents will just be knocked down as soon as they press up, against us.

This forum is still shit, when’s Falke?


#3479

I can’t agree about the forum. It took a little figuring out, but now that I see how it works it’s much easier to keep track of all your threads you’re reading. I don’t have to go clicking through and looking as much unless I wanted.

I was a little disappointed in Vesper’s breakdown of Cammy’s changes. I was surprised by some of his comments as he seemed uninformed.

He mentioned no one asked for 950 health. It was like one of most requested things I saw for her on reddit for season 2 and 3 changes. I even argued 950 was justified given Akumas toolset compared to hers with same life and stun. I guess he’s never went for an EX dp against a grappler on wake up with her.

He mentions her throw damage is an indirect buff but doesn’t realize the damage from throw is not what makes it strong for Cammy. It’s the risk of being stunned if you get grabbed that makes her throw strong, so she can force you to tech. Keep in mind her throw damage was 130 in season 1, was nerfed to 120 in season 2, and then her stun was nerfed from 200 to 150 in season 3. Now with season 3 April patch it was returned back to 130 damage but the stun was nerfed again to 120. This is a significant nerf to her stun not a buff. Three meaty/grab/shimmy setups in the corner guaranteed stun, now it takes 4 with this nerf if you mix in a grab.

Delta ambush is still trash. You can still easily jab it or jump out before it connects, but at least it’s only -5 now on block if you can get them to block. Unfortunately with v trigger scaling and VT1 being buffed VT2 is still not worth using over VT1. In all situations I’m able to net more damage from VT1 and get more oki or opportunities than VT2 now. Before you could argue in some regards VT2 allowed for more punishing combos but those were removed with the adjustment to crush counter combos. She doesn’t have her 543 max damage combo with VT2 anymore due to this. So overall the buff to VT2 is that you can get it sooner and it’s now only -5 on block rather than -11, but it’s no where near what VT1 is now.

cr lk only effected cr lp, cr lk, st lp.


#3480

Capcom isn’t afraid to give good characters new stuff. They haven’t said they wont give a character something new just because they’re high tier.