Cammy General Discussion: To Bee or not to Bee

cammy

#3501

Its not an issue of the DP coming out, its an issue of the DP whiffing. Since you can’t always predict where their body will be after a hit you can sometimes whiff it, hence why it’s a higher risk to use.

People are switching to Cammy because it’s her meta right now. Rock/Paper/Scissor vs last seasons 50/50 blendfest. She has fast buttons, fast movement and a divekick to vary jump ins. Because she has all of this still while everyone else got stuff taken away she is considered the best.

The divekick used should always depend on the setup. You either need to know your spacing exactly or have a setup to guarantee the spacing as best you can. I find lk divekick is best used to meaty slow get ups or to even bait a grab after a two button light string. They are all the same on block now so it really just comes down to distance.

The cr lp nerf whiffing does suck, but it did give us a solid 3 frame tic throw and the ability to combo cr lp (CH), cr mp, cr mp so I can’t really complain about that change. You can either just doing st lp or even cr mp to combo after the divekick if you are too are out that cr lp will whiff on hit.


#3502

I disagree with Abigail having MU’s. It’s literaly the same against every character with him.
He hits you with his BS, you die.
He doesn’t hit you with his BS, he dies.
Thats pretty much every “MU” of Abigail, he’s worse than Azrael in that area.


#3503

Is c LP a better tick throw than s LK because it’s plus 2 on block instead of plus 1 on block?

It’s nice to have a normal hit confirm into normal hit confirm into counter hit confirm blockstring with c LP, b+MP, s LP, s HP, the second normal hit confirm opportunity being the b+MP into a LP.

And what’s the story on meaty s HK or meaty c LP, s HK? This super diamond needs strats lol

Speaking of matchups, I’m having trouble beating a local M Bison. Bison’s j MP>MP destroys my strat of neutral jumps to fake divekick. And Bison’s s HP and df+HO have more range than Cammy’s s MK. So Bison can out lame Cammy and just stay back and snipe with those.


#3504

cr.lp is +2 and moves you forward.
st.lk is still good.

meaty st.hk and cr.lp st.hk is there to catch delayed throw attemptemts mainly.

Speaking of Matchups.
Accient words of wisdome: Whiffpunish!
And be less predictabo.


#3505

The c lp range change allowed for tic grabs that were true 3 frame, so it’s better when you want a true frame trap to use cr lp as 3 frame jabs can CH you if you grab. This forces the person to tech or jump/back dash after the cr lp to avoid the grab whereas with st lk you could 3 frame jab or tech or jump/back dash to deal with it. This is the best change she got in my opinion since she now has a true tic throw and she can combo from cr lp (CH) to cr mp cr mp. It also gives her another option besides having to start with st lk meaty every time to threaten a throw.

c LP, b+MP, s LP, s HP Yeah this is a good one. Sometimes doing cr mp or st mp after a blocked B. MP is good at catching people doing delay buttons as well, but st lp after is a true 3 frame trap.

cr lp to st hk is to beat the delay tech/back dash, but if they do it early you’ll get grabbed and if they do nothing you’ll whiff the kick and get punished. It’s basically another way to do a shimmy without actually doing a shimmy, but comes with slightly more risk reward. I only do it if I know they are going to tech, for example I’ll do a few dive kicks to get them used to that timing then I’ll throw in a jumping HP after they are scared to anti air and after the st hp is blocked I’ll go for a grab to see if they are teching. If they are the next jump I do jumping HP - St HK and I will almost always get the crush counter. It takes conditioning obviously, but that’s what Cammy is about.

For Bison. Don’t neutral jump. His weakness is he has to come to you. The problem is he has good normals that are plus, beats you in the air and has safe specials that move him forward. Because of this you have to play this match up a little bit different than other characters you can basically maul non stop. I personally don’t rush Bison down at the beginning. I try to space myself right outside of his F+hp and I look to see if he is charging. If he goes for F+HP you can cr mk xx spiral arrow to whiff punish it. If he walks forward you can st mk to poke to keep him out and if he dashes you can do cr lp TC or cr mp x2 if you are fast enough. If you see him just holding down back he is waiting for you to walk forward and will most likely poke with mp mks or use a hk scissor kick to pressure. You should bait this by walking forward into it’s range then doing a st hk to crush counter or dash back to make it whiff and then punish. It’s important you stand at the range to bait the hk scissor kick as it’s 19 frames of startup while lk scissor kick is 11 frames. They st lk version doesn’t go very far though and is punishable on block with st jab so they usually reserve that one for combos rather than neutral since mk and hk scissor kick are safe on block. Once you get the knockdown then you can rush them down and mix them up with shimmies, frame traps, grabs etc. If you get pushed back out just walk back to that range and wait for them to have to come to you to get the life lead back. They will usually make a mistake when they need to come to you. The Bison match up for Cammy usually means you have to have some reads/reactions to punish them along with good spacing rather than just block something or just jump/divekick in which is why it’s harder to deal with him for some people. You have to beat him in the neutral and then maul him on wake up because that is where he is weakest. Just be prepared because sometimes you will have to grab a Bison 10+ times before they will finally tech making it slow game to get your damage in. They say, “take the throw” for a reason.


#3506

Hey all, I’ve been gone for a year or so. Finally getting a chance to get back into SFV. My last experience was with the beginning of Season 2, so I’m quite behind.

I have searched a lot but I can’t find a few things. Do we have an updated/organized list of:

  1. Current and effective block strings and frame traps

  2. BnB combos (I assume many are the same as S2 b/c I don’t see too many changes for her for S3)

  3. Updated Vtrigger combos. I know I read something about damage scaling with VT activated in combo as opposed to being activated naked.

Thanks!


#3507

Chiro,
There have been a number of changes since season 2. I need to update the steam guide, but this is probably the closest to what you are looking for although it hasn’t been updated for season 3 and 3.5 changes. https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=628525053

  1. Most strings are the same except you can now do cr lp (CH), into cr mp, cr mp rather than just one cr mp as cr lp range was reduced allowing for the 2nd cr mp to combo. You can also do cr lp into tic throw as well and it’s a true 3 frame trap (no more st lk only into tic throw) since they reduced cr lp range. The reduced range on cr lp means st lk, cr lk, cr lp will no longer work as cr lp will whiff, instead do st lp if you are going for this low check. Cr lp after a successfull hit on a dive kick can now whiff as well, but at these ranges cr mp will work. Some 4 frame punishes can whiff as well now (like against a Balrog dash punch) using cr lp, so you should use st lp instead.

  2. Most BnBs are the same, but there are combos that are more optimal depending upon the situation. I’m assuming Capcom did this to give her more depth as you have to think a little more about the best option. For example if you block a DP and have CA do not do st hk to crush counter, instead do st mp, st hp xx DP xx CA for max damage. Crush counters were nerfed as well so the st hk combo does less damage now. However if you don’t have CA then do the st hk CC combo. Most good players now know how to deal with her strings so try using micro walks in between certain normals to extend combos and catch delayed button presses while mixing in tic throws and shimmies from st lk and cr lp. Since cr lp tic throw is a true frame trap they can no longer jab out of that forcing them to tech or back dash. This makes cr lp, st hk a viable crush counter to blow up delay tech or back dash, but it is punishable if they do nothing.

  3. V trigger damage was nerfed, but a spiral arrow can now be performed after a v-trigger DP that allows for a meaty follow up. It will switch sides on landing unless you whiff a cr mp on landing which will keep you on the same side and still give you oki. Two hits of the divekick after the VT DP will also allow you to juggle EX DP or CA after, but usually requires a combo from her TC or as an anti air otherwise the divekick will hit 3 times (you must only hit the divekick twice otherwise you cannot juggle). If you want max damage from VT1. Activate it raw and then try to land a jump divekick into spiral arrow xx EX DP. For the most part if you land a hit and then activate VT1 do not use both charges (unless it will kill) as the damage is abysmal. Instead use the second charge to get a confirm into spiral arrow xx ex dp or CA for more damage or a jump in dive kick. Also you shouldn’t activate on hit and then go into CA unless it will kill as there is too much damage scaling. It’s best to do CA or VT but not both. VT2 still sucks ass and is not worth using but I made a video before the S3.5 changes if you want to check it out. Combos are the same but it’s 2 bars and 2 charges now rather than 3. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ND9lM1ZGvA&

FYI Cammy is basically enemy number one right now as she is considered top 3 on the tier list. Because of this a lot more people know the match up then they did in S2 so you may find it tough to fight with her for a bit.


#3508

I need a complete list of all the Cammy nerfs. I was at my local tournament playing casuals when I did Cammy’s v skill, which I like a lot and is a big part of my style of Cammy. My friend and rival for the best player in my city tells me v skill is now -4 on block!!??

And come the tournament, I get a counterhit c MK into v trigger 1. I do s HP into drill. Gets blocked.

And then later, I get c HP into v trigger 1. I naturally try for f+HK. Gets blocked.

I think her back throw does less damage, just eyeballing the damage.


#3509

Just tested the above. Counterhit c MK, v trigger 1, s HP and c HP, v trigger 1, f+HK both still work. I guess I just dropped the combos in my local tournament.

I doubt v skill is as bad as -4. It’s definitely nerfed though.

Back throw does 150. Is that what it did before the patch?


#3510

Yes, it did 150 as far as I know.

And no: V-Skill hasn’t been nerfed, your friend got confused between V-Skill and V-Reversal. If you V-Reversal someone and they manage to block you’re -4 and potentially punishable (compared to Season 2 when she was -2, but still better compared to Season 1 when it was -8 on block but you got a knockdown on hit), V-Skill is unchanged and still +2 on block.


#3511

So my “friend” wasn’t being a friend at ALL


#3512

v-skill was buffed from +6 on hit to +7 on hit also so you could use cr mk. I’m not sure if they added this to deal with counter hit pushback on certain moves which was fixed at the time or they wanted to give her a way to connect VTII dash from it by using a cr hp after on CH.


#3513

These Season 4 suggestions are all over the place.

These overreactions on the previous “buffs” also make me wonder if people have still working brains.

I just love the “nerf her throw it’s to good!” A Thorw that gives you jackshit outside of the corner needs nerfs now, what is this game supposed to be next Season?


#3514

A lot of people are just trolling because it’s become a meme to complain about Cammy at this point. The people who actually know the matchup will tell you they don’t think she needs to be nerfed, but capcom will have to do something as it’s too reminiscent of how it was with Yun in SFV:AE being too prevalent in tournaments. She’ll most likely be adjusted to probably be harder to get damage, but still just as linear. People are hoping everyone else will get buffed instead, but I don’t see that happening. I just hope they don’t completely destroy her like they did Chun Li after season 1.


#3515

So there is this magic 1% that will tell you that she doesn’t need nerfs and then there is the 99% who ask for nerfs just for the sake of nerfs.
Sounds like the usual thing.
Oh btw. I’ll transfer the Steam Guide to you later this week.


#3516

Nah the people who are actually good at the game and understand it say she doesn’t need much if any adjustment. People posting on videos or threads usually don’t play her or know the match up whatsoever. The main complaint is how the game benefits her toolset and her being easy to play resulting in a lot of pros picking her up, but not that she is broken and needs to be nerfed as she still has to be played solid to win unlike some characters who can random you out. I mean it’s hard to argue when every option she has is rock/paper/scissors when so many characters have 50/50s or one hit into huge damage plus 900 health and less tools then Akuma. I feel like if they try to address her, someone will say, “well then what about Akuma’s ‘enter move here’?” before they nerf her. The general consensus is the low tiers need something to make them better, but that will ultimately probably mean she will be nerfed in comparison if they do buff them and just leave her alone. I don’t envy the developers job as it’s not easy to balance everything, but I am curious to see what happens.

Don’t worry about transferring the guide. Stay on it just in case. I did update combos for 3.5 awhile back.


#3517

I switched to Anime a while ago and will probably not play SFV in any shape or form serious again.
Probably a bit Casual bullshitting here and there.

Strange thing, took me one month of Blazblue to figure out how to do Menats VT1 Loops, something I couldn’t figure out before.
Not even sure if I will keep playing Cammy too, to much Lambda the last few months.


#3518

What a showing at Capcomcup huh? Cammy is so easy! Free wins!
^
Sarcasm. She only seems easy.


#3519

And…Cammy got the Nerf stick.


#3520

They irony of the developers statement: “As Cammy’s C.LP was a bit too good as an in-close combo part, making her other L attacks useless, we increased the recovery.” cr lp is now 0 on block, so now cr lp is basically useless. Meanwhile I don’t know any Cammy that didnt use st lk or st lp a lot also, so I’m not sure where that comment is coming from. she no longer has a tight tic throw or good pressure after throw in the corner anymore. Even F+hk after will no longer let you do a follow up combo.

  • Crouching Motion: Expanded the backwards hitbox for her head <— cause hitting the air behind her body during a cross up wasn’t bad enough looking already.
  • Normal/Back Recovery: Adjusted the recovery motion <— not really seeing a difference
  • Stun: Reduced from 950 to 900 <— Great now we’re dead to one EX dp wake up against Gief being blocked again. So glad I get one guess to lose a round.
  • Gyro Clipper: Increased the separation distance after the throw <— awesome no threat after a throw in corner. F+hk does even let you combo after. You’ll get a one hit confirm at best now.
  • Neck Spiral: Increased the throw range <— can’t really tell the difference its so minor
  • Standing HK: Added 3F of recovery on whiff <---- I still don’t get this. Urien’s headbutt is literally the same thing at 17 frames of recovery but they aren’t nerfing it also?
  • Crouching LP: Decreased the advantage on block from +2F to 0F <— back to st lk for light strings
  • Crouching MP:
    • Expanded the hurtbox at the arms, from the middle of the attack active frames until the hitbox disappears
    • Added 2F of recovery on whiff <— I swear it feels more like 5 frames now
    • Delayed the timing at which the hurtbox at the arms disappears on whiff by 2F
  • Crouching HK: V-Gauge meter gain from a Crush Counter increased from 100 to 120
  • Jump HK/Lift Upper: Changed so that it cannot hit opponents who are behind Cammy <— RIP anti air. Better hope you don’t whiff a 1.2x damage LK DP
  • Spiral Arrow: Reduced the stun from 150 to 120 <---- why?
  • Cannon Spike: Reduced the stun from 200 to 150 <— Ok so now we are like other shotos but with less life and stun and/or less tools. Awesome.
  • Cannon Spike (V-Trigger I)/EX Cannon Spike: Increased the damage taken for an attack that hits during the move’s duration by 1.2x
  • Strike Back (V-Reversal): Increased disadvantage on block from -4F to -6F <— back to season 1.
  • Delta Drive (V-Trigger I): Can now be hit by an attack during the screen freeze upon V-Trigger activation
  • Delta Twist (V-Trigger II): Increased the landing recovery from 9F to 13F
  • Reverse Edge (V-Trigger II): Increased the disadvantage on block from -5F to -7F
  • Delta Step (Special Move Version) (V-Trigger II): Reduced the overall movement frames from 20F to 19F. Note: There are also changes to advantage/disadvantage when performed from a normal or special move on hit or block <— this is the only thing I have hope for at this point. Going to try combos to see if they took my advice on some of the hit and block adjustments.