Cammy General Discussion: To Bee or not to Bee

cammy

#3521

I’m glad her v trigger 1 is relatively the same. Reduced stun for herself and her special moves is huge. I’m also experiencing crossups when I whiff a QCF+LK drill post stun for meter gain VS downed opponents where it probably didn’t before.


#3522

So VTII 2nd use has more potential now to extend the combo whereas as before it was useless unless you landed a cr hp or a counter hit off a st hp alone. Now st hp will combo into cr lp on second use without a counter hit. It has changed from +2 to +3 on hit. Cr hp on counter hit will allow for st mp, st hp combo after as well as it is now +6.

Landing a hit from these uses will net you around 300 damage or roughly 60 more damage then a normal combo plus the corner carry so it’s slightly better than VT1 damages single use.


#3523

I can get over the fact that she will get one hit confirm pressure after a throw in the corner at best but the cr lp nerf was just overkill. I’m also not thrilled with the second lift upper nerf losing to every cross up now. Some crossups are ambigious as hell (like abigail, Birdie, G) making cross cut dp’s iffy, not to mention if it catches your DP input at the wrong time of them crossing you over you can end up getting CA and it fucking trades with the opponents cross up normal.


#3524

Me seeing the changelist
BETGm4M

Me reading Cammys Notes
594

My Reaction to the cr.lp change
3c3dbc270f8eff1f472b9954f5eb56bf731ed4dc_hq


#3525

Cross cut or auto correct DP’s input is to do f,d,df+LK or d,df,d,df+LK slowly, hitting the anti air as late and low as possible. I’m pretty happy that they kept her DP versions the same.

That’s pretty cool that v trigger 2 is more plus after c HP activate. Still no combo after c MK, activate?


#3526

nope it only added +1 to the second use since the delta step was reduced one frame from 20 to 19 (i asked for it to be 17 frames in my video on how to fix VTII, so they kind of took my advice) so st hp and cr hp are only potential normals you can use to cancel from. cr mk dash is like -6 on hit so it will never let us cancel into delta step from that.


#3527

cr lp can still be +2 if you do it meaty after a hk spiral arrow. It has to hit last active frame though which can make it ambiguous for both you and the opponent.


#3528

Unnecessary nerfs. They could have buffed others and left Cammy alone. Thats it for me, sticking to DBFZ until SF6.


#3529

Obvious Cammy hater Packs (lol) thinks Cammy’s c LP should be +1 on block, saying “what light button in the game isn’t plus?”


#3530

Bison has a minus light afaik,but it’s not like he is lacking in the plus frames department.

Haven’t played my Cammy in forever, will see how these changes affect her overall gameplan.


#3531

https://youtu.be/EbXcHVxRJPY

^ at 27:45 they talk about Cammy and make excellent points.

You can now 100% “take the throw” against Cammy. Very reduced pressure in the corner.

c LP 0 on block means a few things. A well placed divekick will put her at 0 because she uses c LP to followup the well placed divekick. The counter hit fishing string we’re all used to using, c LP, c MP, isn’t real and can be interrupted by 3f buttons now, am I right?

Stun nerfs across the board, v reversal -6, b+MP now no longer working as a proper anti air, it’s harder to win with her now.


#3532

“You can now 100% “take the throw” against Cammy. Very reduced pressure in the corner.” No man there is no pressure now. If they stand after the throw only st mk and cr hp reach. You can’t get anything off of that unless you have V-Trigger. Her corner pressure went from possibly the best in the game to non existent. What they did to Cammy’s throw would be the equivalent of removing Karin’s EX juggles. Imagine how she’d have to play if she only got one EX tenko and how much more work it would be for her to win. They basically removed Cammy’s gameplan of getting your opponent into the corner and conditioning them to tech so you could shimmy. Now she’s basically just a neutral character with up close pressure equivalent to Ryu or Sakura (both have 3 light confirms now) but with no overhead or fireball. She has worse normals and less damage than Karin, so the only reason to play her over Karin now is the DP, but if you can get good with anti airing with Karin it’s a no brainer who you should play.

Taking the throw means absolutely nothing now although you won’t really need to take the throw anyway because all of her strings can just be back dashed out of now with the cr lp nerf for less roll out damage and pressure. Basically if they see jab they can just mash jab like he mentioned in the video and it stuffs everything. If they see st lk, cr mp or st mp they can just back dash to safety. They’ll get rolled out at worse into a scramble state into which cammy’s 3 frame can no longer be used effectively in a scramble as it’s 0 on block. Like he said in the video you can just wait for them to wake up with cr lp and then mash jab after, so cr lp use is basically dead unless you do cr lp cancelled into st lp which is a very easy a predictable string to deal with as it’s not a frame trap until the cr mp is used after so again just mash jab after cr lp and you’re safe.

“The counter hit fishing string we’re all used to using, c LP, c MP, isn’t real and can be interrupted by 3f buttons now, am I right?” Correct. All of her strings from cr lp can now all be interrupted. cr lp into b mp, cr lp in cr mp, and cr lp into grab all lose to 3 frame normals. Also if you use cr lp after a divekick your turn is basically over. You will have to be +2 on divekick at best so you can use a st lp now to continue on block. Capcom wanted to be sure all the Cammy pressure people complained about was over once it was attempted. It is clear they only want her to be rewarded for hits confirms, and hit confirms alone. That is why all the cr lp CH combos still work, but only on hit. Problem is you can’t confirm a meaty cr lp, so you have to commit, but if you commit you get counter hit so why use cr lp over st lk anymore? It totally defeated the purpose of why they nerfed it in the first place per the developer notes as now all Cammy’s are just going to use st lk instead. With cr lp being +2 at least we had some options.


SFV Lounge: Menat BUFFED, F2P SFV coming, CCCC COMBO BREAKERS coming
#3533

Alright guys hear me out on this and let me know what you think. I believe Cammy’s original gameplan has been so severely changed due to the nerfs this season along with the universal nerfs that she has to be played differently than we are used to thinking. All of the patch notes are pointing to Capcom wanting her to be a purely hit confirm character. There will be no more throws/shimmies, mix ups, or pressuring until we can corner them into stun. She will be mainly a character fishing for confirms in the neutral with solid oki upon success and utter destruction upon failure (think more like how Karin plays but with better anti air and less damage and stun).

Due to these changes I think VTII is actually looking viable and possibly better than VTI now. I know what you are thinking VTII sucks balls, but hear me out. VTII was buffed and Cammy’s pressure and throw game were severely nerfed. VT1 allows for a plus frame dive kick, but it’s predictable and can be easily avoided with a jump back. Doing a shimmy on block was legitimate as you could scare them into being stunned, but this is much less likely to occur with the throw and stun nerfs. On hit VT1’s activation makes for an easy confirm but it’s damage and stun is just ok especially if you use both charges.

VTII on the other hand now allows for true pressure strings on block and confirm-able strings on hit with st mp into st hp with both dash charges not just one. Cr hp VTII dash on block can be continued with pressure into a b. mp block string which can be confirmed after into st hp on counter hit. This means after a forward throw in the corner you could go for a cr hp and either hit confirm it or go in for a pressure string. This is our only legitimate way now to get follow up pressure in the corner after a grab. I realize this is still worse than what it was before, but if it’s all we got so we might as well try and use it right?

The +1 buff to the dash also allows us to fish for hits in the neutral with st hp or cr hp buffered into VTII dash in which you can follow up with a target combo for just as good or better damage than VT1’s similar confirm. Before only cr hp could be used which is slow and risky to use, so this was a nice buff to VTII that makes it more appealing. It’s basically a more damaging and easier option then buffering into spiral arrow or DP to be honest and it’s safe on block so if you happen to screw up it’s not like messing up a spiral arrow where you lose 40% of your life.

VTII first activation also allows you to go through up close fireballs for huge damage. Fireball characters will have to respect you in the neutral if you have VTII as you can stand in footsie range and react activate hop grab with it to punish into st hp dp CA for 519 damage. Guile’s are not going to want to sonic boom at you once you have VTII ready to go once they get caught by a few of these.

On top of that we also have the hop grab and hop overhead which can also be used as confirmable hits, but it comes at the cost of damage vs stun. Basically Capcom made it so you can either get lots of damage and little stun or lots of stun and little damage so you’ll need to decide which is more necessary at the moment. For a good mix of both just use the VTII Dash. Since Capcom wants Cammy to be mainly a confirmable character using the hop grab or overhead on block is a huge risk, hence why it’s so negative on block, but it can work if you want to risk it.

Below is a breakdown of what I’ve found to be uses for VTII and some other options you may want to try out. Let me know what you think.

  1. First dash activation optimal st mp, st hp dash cr mp cr mp hk SA/DP 250/413. If opponents crouching opponent after dash use cr mp b.mp TC combo 278 / 450. You can also confirm cr hp, VTII hop+kick, tc DP/SA 276/420

  2. Second activation use as any confirm that ends with st hp to do dash into cr lp TC DP/SA, 310/516

In the neutral: counter hit or whiff punish with st hp/cr hp into VTII Dash will give you a cr mp, cr mp combo or a dash TC combo for 298/455. This is a great buffer tool in the neutral.

On block uses (low risk): you can use a blocked st hp (on 1st activation) or cr hp (on 2nd activation) to do a b. mp pressure string frame trap (cr lp can be used also, but loses to mashing after and st lk can trade with 3 frames). If cr hp hits you can go into TC combo, if its blocked you can confirm off the b mp counter hit, if that’s blocked you can go for cr mp confirm into st hp or cr mk combo. This is also a good way to get back in from a forward throw in the corner or to push you out of the corner as you can pressure after the block.

On block uses (high risk): You can use the first VTII hop activation off a blocked st mp to go for a tight grab. It will beat all 3 frames, but will lose to invincible reversals or jumps. Using hop off of a blocked cr hp allows for meaty overhead (the cannot jab or jump but they can stand up to block it on invincible reversal). Again this is high risk so I don’t really recommend it over hit confirming, but it’s an option. It’s best to use the hop attack to beat fireballs otherwise you should be confirming into dashes.

Note: CC uses after EX DP have changed due to 1.2x multipler it’s now better to go back to the st hk (CC), cr mp, dp CA combo for 473/460. For a while st mp, st hp, dp CA for 485/375 was better due to the damage nerf to CC but now it’s closer in damage and has more stun.

Here are some VTII options for after a blocked EX DP that aren’t necessarily better than the standard CC Cammy combo, but they may help in certain situations where a little more damage would kill or little more stun would stun.

VTII 1st uses after EX DP. Activate 1st VT hop so you catch them as they are landing and go for grab into hp dp CA 519/255 for more damage.

VTII 2nd uses after EX DP. Do st mp cr hp dash b mp tc dp CA for a little more damage and stun than the regular combo 499/495

Also if you land a CC st hk in the neutral you can confirm into hop kick for 322/465 but its not really worth it over the slight walk up st mp crush counter combo as it’s only like 36 more damage for one charge use. It’s better to do a regular CC combo and then save the 2nd charge for later. Capcom really doesn’t want us using CC, plus VT, and CA together so if you are ever in doubt spread them out.

I’m still playing around with VTII options so I’ll post anything new I find, but let me know what you think.


#3534

So in short, a footsies rushdown character has been reduced to a worse Karin.

Why play her now, when Karin and even Falke offer everything she did, just better.

It’s Capcom giving in to all the crying, nothing less.
She was in a very good and solid spot, but was nowhere near as tournament dominant as Menat or Akuma, both charaters who didn’t get nearly as hard as she was.
Akuma still has all his bullshit, Menat can still steal rounds and Falke will be the new problem of the Season in no time.

Capcom has shown often enough, that they only listen to the camp that crys the loudest.
If you want your char back, start to cry as loud as you can. And do it soon.


SFV Lounge: Menat BUFFED, F2P SFV coming, CCCC COMBO BREAKERS coming
#3535

The funny thing is most Cammy’s aren’t saying anything as they know it will fall on deaf ears, so why even try to fight it? You either stick with her or move onto someone else cause no amount of crying about the nerf is going to change anything. They did the same thing to Chun and even after literally everyone jumped ship capcom never brought back anything they nerfed on her. Instead they just changed how she played. Cobelcog took it on the chin like a champ even making a video talking about alternatives rather than outright saying some of the nerfs were bs. Kbrad is still trying to act like she is top 5 despite having much success calling it an “off” day or something. Meanwhile NL and Verlorean are playing Akuma/Ibuki and testing out other characters like Sakura/Ryu. I mean even in the frame advantage video they are saying the cr lp nerf was stupid, however despite all of this I just saw a tweet the other day from a Sakura player saying Cammy’s still busted. I hope they revert the cr lp nerf at least, but I doubt it’s going to happen.


#3536

I didn’t know vt2 went through fireballs. Did I read that combo right that Cammy can do c HP, f+HP+HK, s MP, s HP, f+HP+HK, c MP, c MP, drill? Big combo.

I disagree with your argument about how opponents can just jump away VS V trigger 1 because that’s ok for Cammy as the opponent will put themselves in the corner. Or you can punish their jump backs with v trigger 1 drill. Not big damage and you of course spent one of your 2 v trigger moves, but you’re then able to be at close range for pressure.

Yeah Akuma is the same and he was equally or more dominant. I’ve grown fond of Cammy’s butt cheeks. I can’t switch characters. But I agree that switching to Karin is the obvious thing to do if you’re a pro and money matters. Karin has a DP too. I think when they buffed every character’s heavy button anti air, Karin’s c HP became legit. I’ve faced some STRONG Karins in Ranked. Her s LP still anti airs!

I’ve switched from b+MP to s HK VS Vega’s Wall Dive. s HK works! Slow, but it won’t lose to Vega’s crossup wall dive like DP does.

I think even 4f moves like Abigail’s c LK can interrupt c LP, c MP.


#3537

Doesn’t work. Maybe I misread it:

Yeah, even 4f characters like Nash, a previously good matchup for Cammy imo, can interrupt:


#3538

No you read it wrong. Here are optimal uses:

  1. First dash activation only: st mp, st hp VTII dash cr mp cr mp hk SA/DP 250/413. If opponents crouching opponent after dash use cr mp b.mp TC combo 278 / 450. You can also confirm cr hp, VTII hop+kick, tc DP/SA 276/420

  2. Second dash activation use as any confirm that ends with st hp to do dash into cr lp TC DP/SA, 310/516

You can use both charges if you want but it’s only like 10 more damage due to damage scaling dropping to 10%. To use both charges you can do st mp (CH), cr hp, vtII dash, st mp, st hp vtII dash cr lp, TC, SA/DP. It only does 274 damage/483 stun but it does have a ton of corner carry. You’re basically wasting a charge using it though as just doing the first combo gives you 268/450

Getting opponents to the corner does not matter as much anymore since she has no throw pressure in the corner. VT1 still has it’s uses but in certain match ups VTII would be the right choice. Against Karin I would use VT1 for example. Against Guile I’d use VT2.


#3539

Yeah just did her 2 new trials. Oops.


#3540

This is our fault. We were silent for too long. We thought the tier whores losing with her and going back to their mains would be enough but we were wrong. We need to open our mouths and let our voices be heard. Reddit, YouTube, Twitter. And we can’t let pros try to be complacent and pacify us and tell us “it’s not that bad.” Because yo, it really is that bad.