Cammy General Discussion: To Bee or not to Bee

cammy

#3541

There is nothing we can do.

I refuse to get on one level with Sagat player who cry at Capcom for him not being broken.


#3542

But Sagat was bad. What was pathetic was all the bitching in the first place that Cammy was OP all because their mains no longer had throw loops, safe crush counter buttons, and AA jab resets. The amount of misinformation being spread was insane.


#3543

The complains about Sagat were literally that he wasn’t broken.
I read enough comments that he should be broken, because he is Sagat.

Yes there were tons of missinfos spread, didn’t help that guys like Vesper helped with this.
His Season 3.5 overbuffed reaction was hilarious, since all Capcom did was to correct things they had fucked up previously and added ONE new way to use V-Meter during Combos.
Most people probably just saw the endless list of buffs for VT2, what was even after the chanegs, still one of the worst ones in the game.

But this is how SF Balance goes, cry the loudest to get characters buffed nerfed.
Works that way since Season 1.

And like I said, I refuse to get down on that level.


#3544

Cammy’s season 3.5 changes were nothing more than QOL changes that were blown way out of proportion by the pathetic SF community. And if I learned anything in my days as a youth it’s that timing is everything when it comes to people. Remember, when Capcom announced the 3.5 changes, the pathetic SF community had just seen 3 Cammy players in the top 8 at NCR. Verloren, Gamerbee, and NuckleDu. Verloren and Gamerbee would have little success as the season went on and Du only used Cammy in certain match ups, he’s a Guile player through and through. But the damage had already been done, 3 Cammy players in the top 8 at a tournament. And now you have the pathetic SF community reading the patch notes and losing their fragile, tiny, little minds. The rest is history.

Maybe Verloren gets eliminated in the top 16, maybe Gamerbee never drops Necalli, maybe Du feels his Cammy isn’t ready and doesn’t use her at NCR. I guarantee you things turn out very differently with the pathetic SF community. But that’s how the cookie crumbles sometimes.

Capcom only nerfed Cammy because of the seemingly endless crying and complaining. That’s it. Ether way, that it for me. I’ve been playing SFV for over 2 years but I can’t accept what they did to Cammy and why they did it.


#3545

Vesper pisses me off with his constant crying about Cammy. Like how dare Cammy have an anti air normal… He was ridiculous.


#3546

It was over blown, but she was top tier. When you compare her to other characters she had it good, as she had tools essentially to deal with all situations easily compared to the rest of the cast (this isn’t to say some didn’t have it better). Mind you this is how capcom designed her and wanted her to be. She is easy to use with the trade off being an honest character with low life and stun. Anybody could pick her up and play her but to be top with her you had to have great fundamentals, amazing reactions and be 100% on point. If not you got destroyed for every mistake.

She became an issue when top players could easily pick her up to deal with bad match ups with their mains. For this reason they had to “normalize” her to be mid tier at best even in good hands to keep her an easy to play character, but not as enticing to use over your main for a bad matchup. These changes makes her essentially the same character for lower ranked players but not as useful at higher play.

My issues with the changes is they didn’t make them consistent with other characters that had the same stuff or even better. For a long time I believe Cammy made it through unschathed because Akuma had more of everything compared to Cammy, but when Cammy started hitting every stream setup at majors and Akuma was only seen when Tokido was around Capcom took notice and figured it was somethign more. Granted everyone who played Cammy probably could have picked up Akuma too, but it’s more work and that is really why Cammy got the nerf bat.

I wouldn’t worry too much. Considering the direction they are going and how Juri was literally untouched I expect a lot of the top tiers will lose their easy pressure tools as well. If not I fully expect we get some stuff back otherwise just play someone else.


#3547

Definitely overblown when people are saying she was better than Menat, Guile, Akuma, and Ibuki. Hell I would even throw Karin in there over her. I just can’t understand the mentality of some of these pro players who pick up a character that has such obviously bad matchups that they will constantly run into during the tournament. How many times can you pick Cammy and not expect to be Abigailed?

I have to disagree though with Cammy needing nerfs to be normalized. During the prior seasons, the top tiers had BS like anti air jabs, throw loops, and good safe crush counter buttons. Especially during season 2, everyone essentially played like better versions of Cammy. When those things were changed, they effectively normalized everyone to Cammy’s level. If anything, they didn’t compensate with better tools when removing the gimmicks to make them better well rounded characters and that’s where the issues lied.

Now season 4 comes along, they have improved everyone’s tools but now Cammy has gotten neutered to near uselessness when she didn’t need to be. Her bad matchups are still bad. Her even matchups are now worse, and her good matchups are even.

I know you said you won’t sink low enough to complain everywhere but I will. I have a feeling these changes are going to be reverted when 4.5 drops, but I’ll make sure my voice is heard just in case.


#3548

I didn’t say she needed nerfs. I said capcom thought she needed nerfs to be normalized to distract pro players from using her as as side piece to deal with their bad match ups which defeats the purpose of bad match ups. Pro players weren’t complaining about her. Only people who couldn’t spend 5 minutes labbing how to deal with certain pressure strings or dive kick cried like babies. The majority of pros all said she doesn’t need any nerfs minus the DP stun nerf which I still disagree with as she deserves it compared to the other shotos. She isn’t rocking a fireball, safe enders, an overhead, huge damage or 1000/1000 life and stun. The only thing Cammy has over the other shotos is a divekick so I definitely think she should have kept the stun damage. The double stun nerf to forward throw was enough as it was as it still took 4 to 5 combos to stun. Now the majority of time they are already KO’d before I get a stun as it’s so low meanwhile I get stunned if I get knocked down and risk an EX DP on wake up once. That’s not balanced to me.

Cammy is just more linear now and has very little benefit to getting corner anymore. Too much so to be effective at the top and that’s why all of the mains have jumped ship. Her only reliable string to pressure from now is st lk, cr lp, st lp. This makes here very predictable and limited. If she deviates from this she can get more but it’s a risk every time as 3 frames beat it. Before she could play rock paper scissors fairly easily, but now each attempt is a huge risk that could mean stun or KO in 1 or 2 mistakes. Before you could force someone to respect your pressure so you could setup certain things. Now they can just take a guess with a counter hit jab or backdash to contest 99% of her pressure while she has to respect all of theirs being -6 on v -reversal or risking stun KO if she tries to contest with an EX DP. It’s definitely not a fair trade off, but hey all the haters are happy so Capcom’s done a good job in their eyes. There’s far less of us Cammy mains then there are of the rest of the cast that complained incessantly about divekicks even after you show them how to punish them.

Characters have to have certain things in this game to win tournaments. Either crazy pressure like Rashid, ridiculous comeback potential like Urien, crazy mix ups like Ibuki, or amazing zoning like Menat or Guile. If all you have is good neutral/oki, mediocre damage, and sub par stun you aren’t going to be winning tourneys. She’s too honest to do that especially now with where she is.


#3549

Did you happen to watch Justin’s video to show she is still viable? As a diamond, I’m embarrassed that nobody bothered to check him with all the fake pressure he got away with. It’s like nobody really knows the matchup, even diamonds.


#3550

where is this video?


#3551

He literally did not get checked once for jabbing, so of course he thinks the pressure is still there LOL. Also it doesn’t hurt he has great reactions and awareness. I’ve played Justin at locals. He can basically play anyone and make them look top tier, so this doesn’t mean she is top 5 anymore.


#3552

Welp good thing I switched to Anime.


#3553

Exactly. He made Dan look top tier against Air’s Ryu during the SF4 days. And while the man can play some damn video games like nobody else, he isn’t exactly infallible when it comes to judgement. Remember when he said Adon was garbage? He found out the hard way.


#3554

Well Eventscrubs made Justins video a headline so say goodbye to any reverts lol.


#3555

That’s why he did it. He wants the Cammy players to stick with her because he knows Menat and Karin beat her like Viper and Juri did in the SF4 OVAs. And by publicly saying she is fine and even top 5, it makes us look like whiney ass bitches since he has more clout than us.


#3556

I spoke to Justin about who he thinks beats Menat a few months ago. He said Juri, so I doubt this was a ploy to keep Cammy down to be less of a threat to her. Remember Justin beat Verloren at capcom cup and was beaten by Ibuki and Abigail so I think you are grasping for straws. I honestly believe he did it because people were saying she was dead so he tried her out again and saw that she still has the tools to get the job done. This was more of a video for the people that were saying she was dead and dropping her and him trying to say don’t give up. I mean granted it didn’t really showcase the nerfs at all, but I think that was his point and he may change his opinion in a few months time when things get a little more fleshed out. The only bad thing about this is some idiots will still use this as an excuse to say see she needed all those nerfs because Justin Wong said she’s fine. I just wish he said something like I don’t agree with the cr lp nerf or something like that.


#3557

I doubt that has much of any impact on how Capcom adjust things. Chris T has been bitching about Cammy since day 1 doing numerous interviews on it that have been shown on bigger outlets and none of his complaints ever got addressed during that time.

I think the biggest deciding factor for how they will decide to chage it or not will be data usage. For example if capcom sees that cr lp goes from 10-20% usage to 2-5% usage, but st lk goes up to 10-20% usage instead they will re-evaluate it.


#3558

And there goes Vesper posting another video spreading misinformation. B.mp was an unintended anti air? Smh…


#3559

It’s Vesper.

Did you see his Season 1 Tier List?
He put Cammy at LOW because she had no Overhead.

Meanwhile our Japanese Overlords put her into Top 3.

The guy has as much knowledge as a rotten pineapple under the sea.


#3560

Yeah I had to correct them this time. Mainly because I’m starting to hear their comments getting regurgitated by others. I don’t mind you having an opinion, but when your making statements like b. mp wasn’t an intended anti air and cr lp chains can still be used as frame traps when it’s simply not true somebody has to say something. I’m not liking how they over exaggerate things also. “Her stun was ridiculous” No man, 40-50 extra stun is not ridiculous especially when you compare it to the other shotos tools. Tell you what Cammy can have the same damage and stun on DP as Ken, Ryu, Sakura, and Akuma when Cammy gets a fireball. I mean if it’s all supposed to be fair and even on specials let’s make it fair and even right?