Cammy Match-Up Discussion: Balrog

Discussion on the Cammy vs Balrog match-up goes here.

If the framedata is correct,you should be able to punish all rushpunches with can also beat rushpunches
Point blank rushpunches can be punished with st.lp/cr.lp,not sure if we can link into the TC.

Balrogs hurtbox also seems to be pretty big, I was able to do -> TC on him as he was standing.I’m not sure if that works always,if It was just a weird thing or he crouched and I saw it as standing animation.
You can normaly hold downback the whole time,the only exception would be his overhead. He does a obvious spin for this,so just switch to stand block.
3f normal,means pressure should be optimised.
He has absolutly no crossup at all.

Also he’s a annoying prick and I don’t like him.

Lol @Cipher, yeah,he is quite annoying, hit hard and sumtimes is hard to react to his rush punches,i know it can be punish with, st.lp works too, but st.hp into h.arrow are nice too but hard to do it in reaction unless u see it coming :slight_smile: I guess any of his target combos are negative on block and also no wakeup reversal( except CA) too right? Same annoying as Gief cr.lp, spam whole day lol

st. MK really has been useful in this match. It shuts down Rog’s approach. Mix st. LP in with st. MK and you can control the neutral game pretty convincingly.

Right outside of his poke range or at about st mk hitting the tip range, Whiffing st hp buffered into SA/CS has worked wonders for me. It stuffs any punch/attack he throws except sweep. So if he jabs or does a dash punch you win, but if he sweeps you can then bait it for next time as the sweep is easily punished.

After (max range) u can whiff punish w st.hp fairly easily

what do you do to punish balrogs that just do dash punches?

My frame data memorization may not be perfect here, so anyone who knows feel free to jump in

But only his lp dash punch is safe. Everything else should be either punishable or at the very least, you are allowed to press something…

Pay very close attention to his charge. Don’t play footsies or walk forward when he has it. Without charge cammy does well.

Get the knock down and bully him. This is where cammy truly shines as a character. He has no wakeup so go ham.

I believe his lp dash punch is the safest and it is -4 so u can punish it with jab, jab spiral arrow if he is in range. He can space it so that its safe tho.

Only dash punch that completely safe is ex

I agree. When he’s staying back on charge, just inch your way forward.

Like I mentioned earlier in the thread, Rog is trying to walk away to charge, I find a lot of success with st. MK. It stuffs Rush Punches, and because he’s walking out you stuff most of his pokes as well with st. MK.

He’s so free on wake-up, and with how over reliant Rogs are on using EX Rush Punch, Rog almost never has meter for CA. Most Rogs I run into, good or bad, love to press buttons or target combo sequences while pressured… Pressure strings should be tight and if they are silly enough to target combo out of pressure, know how to punish them.

Practice your punishes in general. Almost nothing Rog does is safe. Even his LP Dash Punch is punishable with st. LP if spaced poorly.

I have no problem using V-Reversal, especially when it puts him in the corner. V-Trigger is not a must have in this match.

Depending upon how deep his dash punch hits you, you can do jab into SA or CS. He’d have to be really close for 2x jab to work. It’s a fast combo and not much time to hit confirm it so you may want to practice in training. Like Necro was saying you want to focus on his charge time to anticipate the attack. If you get good at reading his charges you can actually use st hp buffered into special instead to beat it before it hits you. If you aren’t too sure on the timing you can actually just walk forward while mashing st jab also as it tends to beat it as well.

In general holding up back is safest against him as all his lows are unsafe and all his overheads can be followed up into combos so they are going to be trying for more overheads then lows in general. If he does switch to doing a low attacjs just block it next time and punish that one as well. Once up close only use 3 frame traps as they will all be mashing jab. For this reason doing grab setups aren’t really worth trying on rogs unless you see they finally stop mashing the jab.

Ex Dive kick also catches them a lot.

Alright, three quick questions:

  1. After how many vtrigger punches can Balrog go for the reset?
  2. Can you mash jab on block to punish his reset or is it a legit frame trap?
  3. Can you mash jab on hit or there aren’t enough frames?

he can cancel any subsequent punches after the initial to V-skill. You CAN mash jab to punish the overhead reset, but its risky because he can do a delayed v-skill punch to frame trap your LP, or he can simply stop after doing a v-trigger followup, let your LP whiff and punish it with st./cr.LP xx whatever. Mashing jab while in the middle of a grounded v-trigger combo isn’t a good idea either, since he’s plus enough for the overhead to trade and still let him convert off it.

Here is my advice for this match up for season 2. Don’t over extend or do anything risky to get a hit especially if he has v-trigger or meter. What I mean by this is once you finish your block string wait for him to do a dash punch, overhead, whiff a st hp or cr mp, a target combo etc. If you attempt a shimmy or try go back in after a string when you are negative you will get caught eventually and as you’ve already learned if he has v-trigger and two bars of meter it’s a dead Cammy. It’s best to play this match up fast at first then tone it down and play it as safe as possible and let him take the risks. In general I don’t recommend jumping on him unless you have ex divekick or v-trigger divekick. His AAs are too good.

So now you are probably asking but then what do you do if he just turtles up and blocks everything? You beat him with your faster walk speed, better neutral buttons, and capitalizing on the fact that so many of his options are unsafe.

Here is a list of his punishable moves:
1.Cr hk is -14 punish with cr mk xx sa
2.All of his target combos are -6 at least including his spin overhead (FYI he can only overhead if he spins first so just look for the spin to block high, but keep in mind he can cancel the spin and go into a cr mk low. The key here is to not give him that much space to pull something like that off. If you are at the right range you’ll catch him before he can do it.) Depending upon range cr mp, st mp, or st hp xx special can punish any of his TC’s. The one to watch out for though is his cr mk x cr mk which know hits low on both hits. It’s a semi fast longer reaching low so trying to walk back or forward on him can lead into an easy v-trigger death moment so do be aware of it’s range and if he has v-trigger try to stay out of it unless you have the advantage. That means if you are in close range doing a tight string then just block low right after if you are still in range. If he goes for the TC you get a free punish. Waiting him out is a big part of winning this match sometimes. It sort of feels the same way it did for Cammy at the beginning with the Birdie match up.
3. Dash punch is -4 at least (only v-trigger and ex is safe). Can punish with jab into special if you block it at the right range.
4. Dash low is -7 at least (only ex is safe). Can be punished with st mp, st hp xx special
5. Screw Smash (his dp) is -10 at least. Can be max punished.

For this match you want to be at about max st mk range (you can use this to bully a little bit at that range), which is right outside of his st hp range (the can CC your st mk if you are stupid about it so make sure you are not just spamming it). If you see them doing st hp, you whiff punish it with cr mk xx SA as it lunges him forward and stays out for a bit. Go into training to learn the range to punish that as they like to fish for CC with it. His cr mp is their main poke and is annoying with it’s speed and range, but Cammy’s cr hp beats it if they keep trying to spam it out so learn that spacing as well as it’s an easy cr hp v-trigger activation for us. St hp buffered into special can also catch his cr mp but is a little riskier as you have to be closer and you can be punished if it whiffs. In general I try not to whiff buttons especially against Rog as his specials will catch anything you whiffed with their speed and range if they happened to throw them out (some do look to punish your whiffs). I do whiff cr mk buffered into SA at his max st hp range even though it is a whiff as it can still catch his specials before they activate but it is still a risk. You can also mash jab to try and stuff his specials while walking forward, but again it’s a risk. Another thing of note is I don’t dance in neutral a lot in this match up like I do with other characters because of how fast his EX moves come out. You can’t really react to them especially online, so I tend to make methodical safe movements to get to the range I want. Like if he walks forward, I walk forward, if he whiffs a button, I walk forward, if he is holding down back I’m not walking forward until he does a negative move or loses charge basically.

Once you get an SA you can apply meaty pressure and keep working him to the corner. It’s ok to mix in some grabs (like tick throw st lk - grab as you can usually grab his v-reversal if he does it), some shimmies, or delayed buttons to catch him hitting something to keep them guessing, but realize a lot of these rogs are looking for the shimmy or walk forward grab to hit a button so you don’t want to get caught while he has v-trigger. Once they have v-trigger you have to put on the brakes and just wait it out until they make a mistake like the cr mk cr mk TC. By the time they have v-trigger you usually only need one or two more combos to finish them off, so playing it safer later in the rounds usually plays out better here. You just want to make sure you put yourself at the range that makes his normals whiff, but his specials still unsafe on block or while they are coming in. Honestly the hardest thing to get used to at first is his overhead while being patient as he can still activate from that and it can be a tricky fast mix up to see. Just try to get to that st hp max range and look for the spin, try to catch him with the cr mk before he reaches you or be ready to block high for a punish after otherwise just hold down back and wait for your opportunity.

Also one gimmicky thing that sometimes works against these charge characters is doing V-skill after a light attack string as it kills their charge when crossing up, but better players will hit you out of it. If they are turtling up a lot and don’t have v-trigger it’s worth a try. I’ve definitely caught some teching late or jabbing at the wrong time with it for an easy hit confirm into CA, SA or V-trigger. It’s definitely a gimmick but doesn’t hurt to let them know you’ll do it to keep them on their toes. It gets rather easy to beat Cammy if you get used to just blocking down back as all you have to do is focus on the tech.