Cammy Match-Up Discussion: Ryu

cammy

#1

https://vine.co/v/eMZ07HwTAwr

Discussion on the Cammy vs Ryu match-up goes here.


Cammy Match-Up Thread Index
#2

This match-up feels some tough at times. Anyone have some solid tips?


#3

This match up. Baffles me as well. Either barely win or get mauled.


#4

Parry is really good, but it loses to throws. I definitely think mixing up hooligans and divekicks is a must in this matchup.


#5

dunno about that, it wouldn’t be much of a task for him to just DP you out of hooligan on reaction. i think this matchup is more about staying on the ground


#6

Theres no reason to use hooligan. Parry gets meatied or punished…


#7

You really should not trying to be funny against Ryu with “50/50” gimmickys. That guy outdamages you by a mile. You can’t give him the opportunity to land his heavy hands into your frail ass 900/900 body.


#8

A lot of Ryu players will db all day in this match up. Once u have super his fireball game gets shutdown and ur footsie r better than his. U can also use ex SA or v skill 2 shutdown his fireballs if u want 2. Dont jump at him at all he has 2 many AA options. His stmp is the best footsie he has outside of fireball to counter cammy’s but u can beat it with a well timed stHp. It’s by no means an easy match but it is very winnable


#9

This MU feels pretty basic and pretty even.
Just a few things I noted:

  1. Don’t try to get in with V-Skill or Hooligan,you will get parried and punished.
  2. Don’t relie on your divekicks against him. If you want to go around projektiles or bait DP’s out,use them at a range you know he can’t hit you.
  3. TK Divekick is a must against a good Ryu, all other EX Divekicks are pretty risky.
  4. Mix your wakeuppressure against him good up.
  5. Don’t jump to much, he has good anti-airs.

For the argument he outdamages Cammy, thats not entirely true, he has 100 life more. One Jump-in from both leads to 300+,one CC leads to 300+ from both sides.
Playing the neutral is basicly the most effective way, he don’t get anything if he Parrys your pokes.
A Whiffed Parry is a free CC.
If you have CA you can punish every blockstring that ends with a Fireball. He is -5 at best. Keep that in mind.

I played MDZ_Jimmy in SFIV already often, the matches I had with him during Beta 3 and 4 are basicly my fundament.He is the best Ryu I know.
Stay to oldschool Cammy, frametrap,poke,tickthrow, play solid and fundamental.

The match doesn’t feel bad for both, I’m sure it’s even.


#10

Here’s my take. Ryu has a lot of options so there isn’t like a one size fits all approach with him, but I’ve figured out a range that tends to shut him down pretty good regardless of play style (defensive or aggressive). Cammy’s sweet spot is right outside of Ryu’s cr. mp range. Far enough away where it doesn’t hit, but close enough that his cr. hk will. This is also the perfect spot that if he jumps in on you, you can b+mp anti air and dash under to cross up. From this range you can also use st. mk to stuff his hadokens, but as others have said they will start dping on reaction to catch your pokes, so sometimes its better to just sit at that range and let them try to guess right.

So here are Ryu’s options at that range:

Cr. HK - You get to punish with cr mk xx hk SA, follow that up with a dash into st mp meaty (safe to reversals if timed right, so practice this in training until you learn the timing for all recoverys, this is essential to be a good Cammy player). If they hit a button on your meaty you get your second combo off and they are in the corner and almost stunned. Follow that up with another dashed meaty and repeat it until they are KO’d or block. Now if they block the meaty this is where you switch into grabbing/shimmying/frame traps. option 1. meaty st mp. walk forward grab or walk back shimmy grab depending upon how well you’ve trained him to tech grabs. 2. st. mp, cr. mp (3 frame gap to catch cr. lp mashers) if it counter hit go into cr. mk xx hk SA so you can do another meaty setup. 3. st. mp, st. lp, st hp to catch those ryus that love to spam his cr. mp. The St hp will counter hit his cr mp, but it’s a tough hit confirm into SA or CS so I’d advise having a hard read on the cr. mp otherwise you will get punished. If all of those options fail return back to the same position and wait for him to make his next choice.

Jump - You get to punish with b+mp and then dash under to cross up into cr or st mp combo of your choice or you can lk CS followed by a dash forward st hp meaty which you can try to confirm into SA or CS, otherwise you can reset the position.

Fireball - This takes a little guessing on your part, but they usually won’t fireball at this range as you could easily jump and punish them. If you catch them throwing it out a lot you can st. mk to stuff it or even a HK CS, but the best option is to jump punish it if they really are dumb enough to keep doing it. Worse case scenario is you block the hado and try to reset the position. You can also TK EX Divekick or EX Hooligan grab it.

Dash into grab/jab - This has started to become something I’ve been seeing Ryu’s do a lot lately. Just like anticipating the jump you will need to anticipate the dash. I like to catch it with jabs, followed by st. mp, cr. mk xx SA on counter hit. If you get a counter hit at anytime it will all combo and is safe to everything on block except DP after the cr. lp, it also resets you back to that perfect range if they block it all.

Walk forward - As soon as you see him move forward just hit cr. mk or cr. mp depending on how close he gets before you react to stop him. He won’t be able to get in and we’ll end up getting frustrated and try to jump.

So my main strategy for Ryu is to get into that range right outside of his cr. mp to limit his options vs me so that I can punish him into the corner with SA and meatys where he’ll feel even more pressured to make a wrong choice. My main thing to avoid at all cost is his cross over ranges. His ridiculously wide jumping mk hit box mixed with Cammys small visual body creates a weird situation where the kick literally hits air and not your body making you think you’re safe to hit a button or move. You can lk CS to catch his cross overs but the timing can sometimes be tricky and if you mistime it the damage is significant. You just don’t want to be in this range ever unless you are doing the crossing over so try to stay out of it. If they try to do it on your wake up a spiral arrow out is usually a safe option without having to deal with follow up pressure.

Now once you get V-trigger or CA you can punish all of his fireballs on reaction or incorporate them into your meaty setups for more damage. The main thing is to not let him plow over you. If he’s getting momentum don’t hesitate to V-reversal, especially if he gets you in the corner. Use your walk speed and neutrals to control the spacing.


#11

Sorry, I haven’t played since SFIV normal. I thought they got rid of TK cannon strikes?


#12

#13

Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this Ryu thread. It’s helping me devise a more effective gameplan for sure. I’m currently trying hard to play better against a local rival who has a very aggressive, rushdown Ryu. In that kind of matchup, especially with the opponent having CA, it’s downright terrifying.

That’s why I think SunTzu is on point when he says that you need to stay in that range outside his cr.mp range, but within cr.hk range. Getting hit by cr.mp will turn to CA by a good Ryu almost guaranteed, and I’d rather be swept (since you get knocked down). Also, blocking and punishing a Ryu sweep is possible. In addition, the slightly further distance allows for better Cammy anti-airs and Ryu cross-up avoidance, since Ryu’s cross-ups are so beefy in SFV.

Finally, cr.mp has less recovery time on whiff (12f) compared to cr.mk (15f) and cr.hk (22f). All these points are more than enough proof to make it a goal to stay away from Ryu’s cr.mp range, and make him use other buttons.

I learned that pressing buttons on wakeup against Ryu is the worst idea ever. All you have to do is read this article and watch the vid within it:

It’s best to block, and get ready for teching throws or blocking an overhead.

Keep it up, guys.


#14

Watching Cobelcog today, he was fighting a really good Ryu player that gave him a lot of problems with the Solar Plexus attack (towards + HP). It eats up space, it’s hard to avoid, it seems relatively safe (even though it’s -2) and it’s easy for Ryu to confirm into a CA.

I was wondering about what you guys do against that move? That move and the axe kick are what I have the most problems with against Ryu players.


#15

Not to speak ill of cobelcog, but he was throwing out way too many st mks against Ryu and getting punished for it.

Ryus axe kick is meant to be a safe close hit check, but it usually requires a meaty to do as it’s startup is rather long (CS is the only thing that can beat the meaty). What tends to happen though is the HK takes priority and usually ends up winning the trade when used at longer ranges. It’s all dependent upon when he starts it and at what distance. Up close (non meaty, like a dash forward axe kick) you can jab him out, at farther ranges cr mk will beat it if pressed late, and even sweep but that’s a little odd for Cammy to use. The thing is there is no advantage on block so you could press a button you think will beat him depending upon the range after you block it. It’s not a free follow up, but not really a pressure stopper either.

For the F+HP the best way to beat it is to make it whiff (the start up is super long and the recovery as well) or CS when you see it start up. If that move is hitting you, you are moving forward too much or pushing a delayed button. It’s just like when you get hit by DPs for hitting buttons on Ryus wake up too much.

Cog seemed to be hitting a button (like st mk) after Ryu did a string almost every time. The ryu player was just responding with counters like SRK and sweep to hit him as it beats our medium pokes free. The problem was mainly Cog couldn’t deal/react to the ryu players dashes and the Ryu player was really good about staying right outside of Cammy’s cr. mk range. Cog kept responding with cr mk after those dash ins when he should have been using jab or cr mp to hit confirm on counter hit to punish the dash in (funny thing is the Ryu player seemed to always jab Cog out of his dash ins). For a lot of those dash ins I think st hp/cr hp would have caught Ryu as well. I can’t really say bad things about Cog though. The dashes are a bitch to react to and I don’t feel like Cog was on today. He was missing a lot of hit confirms he usually lands.


#16

As much as I like Cobelcog and his plays, this guy keeps up running into so much stuff and says afterwards always “no,not again.”, what means he saw them coming but run into them anyways.

He seems a little bit slow in adjusting during a match.

I deal with the Solar Plexus by make it either whiff with walking or dashing back or I just block it and take my turn afterwards.


#17

Instant dive kick beats the solar plex. You probably won’t be able to combo into a jab afterward because of the height. Almost any character that throws a heavy normal you have to instant dive kick on. Sweeps can be comboed. For dashes you have to just stay outside of dash range and walk back. You can walk back and hp into arrow if they whiff. I really don’t like the idea of crouching and hitting a button on dashes even though I am guilty of doing it sometimes.


#18

Yep sounds like me… I run into the dumbest shit over and over and over and i even call it out. Except i start going on tilt hella fast due to knowing what in doing wrong and my body not being able to react/adjust to it.


#19

Yeah, that’s when I stop playing ranked and immediately hit the replay sessions. I have a checklist of things to analyze, to help me pinpoint what went wrong.

I also ask myself the theater actor question (lol): “What’s my motivation?” Basically, if I’m playing with no general gameplan, and just going out there and just reacting to the opponent, I have to collect myself and go back to basics: play solid defense, avoid getting trapped in the corner, don’t fall into patterns. I also try to recall as much of matchup specifics as possible, and use the replays for new tech.

This happened to me about two weeks ago… had the same feeling as you, Hollowblade. I think with SFV Cammy players, this happens more often to us because Cammy can’t rely on gimmicks or easy bailout tactics to save us.

At least we have each other. :slight_smile:


#20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WnwwcpLGqw
(Xiao Hai vs Tokido)


(Xiao Hai vs Daigo)

https://youtu.be/iap6UOtcljQ?t=2h5m19s
(Kaz vs Diago at 2h, 5m, 20s)

Thoughts on approach?