Cammy's Bugged Chain Cancels

cammy
#1

OK, so I discovered what I would call a glitch. It has to do with chain cancels, and it is present in all Light Punches (jabs).

If we compare these two links: “cr.LP->cr.LK” and “cr.LP->cr.MP”… According to frame data, they are 4-frame and 2-frame links, respectively. In reality, they are both 2-frame links!

What’s happening here is that a chained light attack comes out if you try to link into it from any Light Punch, some time even after the recovery has finished. The reason this happens is because the “chain window” of Light Punches exceeds their recovery. Which leads me to my next point…

In AE, all of Cammy’s Light Punches received changes. Their recovery was shortened, but whoever made the edit forgot to tweak the chain cancels to the new values. They are unchanged from Super, and it looks unintentional.

All of this puts the old “cr.LK xx cr.LP->cr.LK” combo into bad light; it’s actually harder to do than “cr.LK xx cr.LP->cr.MP” because it cannot be plinked, and its delayed timing takes no advantage of AE changes and can confuse your muscle memory.

Official SRK Ultra SF4 Rebalance Request Thread
#2

I knew it wasn’t just me who thought something was weird with that!

#3

It seems like you can prevent this bug from occurring by switching between standing and crouching after an LP, which overrides the chain-cancelable ‘post-recovery’ frames, causing the next input to be a link rather than a chain. For example, doing [cr.LP, st.LP] or [cl.LP, cr.LK] feels like a 4-frame link. [cr.LP, cr.LK] also feels like it has a wider window if you let go of down and hold it again at the same time as pressing LK.

#4

Oh wow, you are totally right on all accounts. I didn’t know of this technique. And yeah, the cr.LP->cr.LK link can be made wider by letting go of down, but it only becomes a 3-frame link because you must stand for at least 1 frame after the recovery, which sounds like a lot of work for a measly cr.LK.

Still, it’s more likely that CAPCOM dropped the ball than intended for this down-up dance.

#5

Damn, I knew something was up when I could hardly get cr.lk cr.lp cr.lk to work with early timing, yet cr.lk cr.lp st.lp worked every time. Very good find SHODAN. We should let Capcom know about this right away, maybe it’s not too late to get this fixed in AE 2012. But then again apparently Juri has had a similar issue with some links ever since SSF4.

#6

since AE i didnt use this combo. so this doesnt bother me. screw light light light xx arrow.

Di,:rolleyes:

#7

woah, all this time, I thought it was just me failing… so much frustration caused from not being able to hit a “4-frame link.”

#8

I have not had much of a problem with this especially since the AE changes :S

Sweet find, though.

I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=32.714348,-117.149048

#9

I made this video to show the bug in more detail.

[media=youtube]o8fhpT1UFv4[/media]

Feel free to bombard Ono’s twitter with this one, guys. We need this fixed for AE 2012!

#10

Featured in an epic video, sooo happy! :lovin:

Yeah, hopefully it’ll be fixed. It’s like a 5 second job, really.

#11

You’d THINK it was a 5 second job, but this kind of bug could be deep rooted in some weird code. Being a programmer, I know that sometimes things that seem simple make NO sense at all. LOL!

Interesting find, though. Good thing I mostly rely on Low Jab into Low Strong right now.

  • James
#12

Moonlit Wilderness makes everything epic. :cool:

And yeah, fairly sure this is a 5 second fix if even that. Capcom programmer guy likely forgot to change a few 8s into 6s and 5s (we’re talking about the chain frame value here) when updating the light punch data for AE.

#13

I opened up your youtube and kept reading the thread and suddenly I’m blasted with Moonlit Wilderness. It was very arousing. Great vid, hope it gets fixed but I dunno why you’d be using that combo anymore. I still want it fixed just for the sake of things working the way it should though.

#14

yeah hopefully they fix it. dont want this bug messing up her other combos.

Di, :sweat:

#15

When my execution goes down the drain (fairly often) I always fell back on the old bnb… since you can’t mess up a 4 frame link right!? Well lots of time I never cancelled into SA… I guess this is the reason for a lot of those times… no more reason to use the old bnb now… if I’m going to be doing 2 frame links I’ll do the “real” ones… muscle memory and the security blanket of a 4 frame link was the only reason… a lot of swear words came out of my mouth for flubbing this 4 frame combo @ crucial times…

#16

I actually use light combos in optimal situations.

“But Teyah you’re a scrub! Light combos are never optimal!”

  • Killing someone with < 80 health with jab jab jab arrow gives the highest meter gain
  • Doing lights into arrow is (should be) the easiest kill combo. Don’t be a hero and go for the 1 or 2 framer to finish the round when it isn’t necessary. (Well, it is always necessary in AE vs crouching enemies, that’s what I’m trying to have fixed)
#17

Anyone doing those light combos doesn’t make me think they are a scrub. But I do frown a bit when they use them the entire game. I go for the light combos if needed, but reflex makes me go from jab into crouch strong into spiral arrow nowdays. Plus I totally stopped using the light combo when I found the Spiral Arrow never coming out, but I wasn’t savvy enough to realize what was going on haha.

#18

I feel much better about my execution now! :lol:

#19

Hey is this why when I do crouch jab into stand fierce p linked with jab and get stand jab it doesn’t cancel into Spiral Arrow like… ever? :(((

#20

I guess the first question that needs to be asked is, are we sure the frame data is correct. After translating the latest japanese mook, I noticed that it also had some errors, cammy had a couple. If all your assumptions are based off of incorrect frame data, it will throw everything off.

Are we 100% positive the frames are correct on startup/active/recovery? Are we 100% sure its hit advantage/block advantage is correct? How was it proven to be correct/incorrect?