Cammy's Tournament Viability

Hey guys,
I was watching Socal regional’s last night and i felt compelled to make this thread. I know it’s been discussed before but having a better understanding of the game than i have ever had before, i wanted to bring it up to the rest of the Cammy community. I especially wanted input from the mentors and veterans such as Seikuryu, Ailoune, Princess Di, James Chen and Teyah. Let me reiterate that Cammy is my main and i have always played her as i was taught my first combo’s from SeikuRyu. I love her character and play-style and that will never change. However, i for one never believed she was as viable in tournaments or as strong as people claimed her to be. I always saw players having to play really great matches just to compete, while other pressure characters such as Rufus could afford to make more mistakes and still usually pull out the win. Another reason i feel/felt this way is because i have never seen Cammy win a major. I feel there is a reason people don’t use her at all or don’t use her consistently. James Chen made a really good point during the stream last night. During a Vega vs Ryu match he said along the lines that “Vega is a good character and can win you matches, but isn’t the type of character that will win you a tournament”. And from what i have seen and known i feel this is dead on for Cammy as well. She seems for the most part to be a great alternate character that you can pull out when you are feeling her or the match up. I feel that if you are bringing Cammy to a tournament you have to have another character in your pocket ready to go. Maybe you guys completely disagree but that’s how i have been feeling. I look forward to hearing what everyone has to say.

In Super she was definitely capable of winning majors, she would’ve won the Beat By tournament if Sako wasn’t fucking around and locked himself into Rose, though he might’ve done that for prep against Mago’s Fei Long who he dismantled with Rose. Alioune came… third IIRC?

AE2k12 is way too early to say one way or another, after all no one would’ve said Adon was a potential tournament winning character until Gamerbee, same with Sakura until Uyro for AE. A lot of the time it’s the player who wins not the character, Momochi could’ve won the last seasons beating with Ken or Yun quite easily but he did it with Cody.

Cannon drill hits a lot of things, also useful for avoiding a lot of things.
Anyone half decent can beat Cammy knowing you can crouch block everything.

That’s this character in a nut shell.

Here’s my view. Cammy lack the tools the manage her obvious weaknesses. Like what Atlaz said, downback FTW. Characters like rufus, yang, fei to name a few, have tools to test the opponent safely and have tools to cope with their weakness albeit somewhat limited for some. In super, its manageable because of TKCS. Once that’s gone, Cammy’s weakness are lightning up for the holidays. Personally, I think it was blown up of proportion but it does show. Therefore, the only way to open up your opponent rests solely on the player to make things happen. Don’t think that is a selling point for cammy. People rather play another character with more tools to get more advantage.

Finally, you can’t use a tournament win to determine a character’s strength. Daigo’s Ryu won Evo and Ryu was still deemed mid tier. To win a tournament, you need lots more. Player’s skill, experience, match up knowledge and most importantly, luck.

‘downback ftw’ does NOT work against Cammy especially if you have good mixups after your backthrow. I just find that to be a phrase Cammy players on SRK like to rattle off for no apparent reason.

You have to get your backthrow first right? With the worst throw range, ppl can just downback all day, space and anticipate because they know Cammy has no other way. Characters like boxer and honda can zone you out with cr jab. Of course, no one is saying a simply downback means cammy will definitely lose or at a huge disadvantage. You can frame trap, TKCS etc. When I say downback FTW, I meant it sarcastically.

I already explained this based on my own opinion and experience. I accept that I’m not some great player like you Chuck where you’ve never been zone out from a skilled defensive player and when your opponent downbacks, you can simply backthrow them for mix ups. Sorry for ‘rattling off for no apparent reason’.

Don’t be a little bitch because I disagreed with you. I never referred to myself as a great player, nor did I say that I have never lost to a defensive player. Of course I know defense poses Cammy problems (I personally think boxer, due to cr.lp teching is cammy’s worst matchup) but the fact of the matter is that between her throw/frame trap game and dp/tkcs to beat any buttons pressed she has more than enough tools to deal with it when it comes from most members of the cast.

Sry if you feel offended Chuck. I’ve already said Cammy has the tools to deal with it exactly what you just explained. I quote myself ‘solely on the player to make things happen.’ which equates to your post of ‘more than enough tools to deal with it’.

After reading my post, I do accept that it wasn’t clear and it could have easily been misunderstood it as ‘downback=lol cammy has no chance’.
I’ve no problems with people disagreeing with me. This is about sharing and critique. Everyone has the right to do that here.

I accept I was being a little bitch, but only because I ain’t happy with the tone of your reply which I personally think was full of it and sarcastic.

No problem, you’re right I saw your post as downback=lol cammy has no chance (which I believe some players on this board actually think) which is why I lashed out.

Yea, bad post of mine. But whatever, a little heat to spice up the forums lol. ¯_(ツ)_/¯

Moving along though, 2012 seems to be rocking in Cammy’s favour and I see a spike of cammy players now. Think it might change the scene of the tournament? Or its just a hype thing and after awhile people will start playing Akumas and friends?

I think its a hype thing and we’ll probably see about the same Cammy players.

Cammy is far too much work for most players, I’ll be surprised if we see the numbers change. If there is, I will change to like Yun or something because I hate bandwagons (the main reason I didn’t play cammy in super :frowning: )

Definitely tournament viable…I feel she is top 8 in this game easily…The amount of damage and stun she can do off a 50/50 mixup is stupid.

I dunno, just seems to me that Cammy gets hard countered by as many characters as she hard counters. That’s probably bad for competition, nothing to do with balance in general.

like who? i think she has very few bad matches in 2012.

Basically anyone that can do any zoning and footsies has an advantage over her, not even necessarily good zoning and footsies, just provided the character has both. This is especially true of charge characters.

And then you have characters like Sakura where the match is basically over when Cammy scores a knockdown.

She does have a decent amount of bad matches, that’s why she doesn’t get used often. Balrog? Bison? Honda? Just use a better pressure character like Rufus? Even with Yun and Yang nerfed i think they are still better than her. And yeah that’s good if anyone good ever used Sakura in a major. Cmon man…

If Yang was better than Cammy, Alioune would still play him.

Cammy has historically had bad matchups against commonly used high tier characters in SF4, so she hasn’t really ever been a consistent, viable tourney-winning character. In Vanilla it was to the entire top 6 as she had no threatening mixup due to no reliable crossup. In Super she was at her best but still lost to charge squad top tiers. In AE the HK trio all hard countered her (6-4) and the rest of the high tier were bad matchups (Sagat, Akuma, Bison) with the exception of Viper.

There’s also the other issue that you have to be at a very high level of play in order to be consistent with her. With Cammy there’s no extra health, high damage safety buffer, safe escapes, or other general “BS” that are more effective at lower levels of play, which is commonly seen in characters like Sagat, Rufus, Boxer, Honda, Bison, or Guile - which are all also commonly played characters that Cammy has struggled against. You just have to be much more refined with Cammy than with other characters in order to be a consistent threat.

On the upside, in 2012 her tough matchups with the top tier may be at their lowest point yet. As long as you can deal with Sagat, Boxer, and Bison (and maybe Ryu) you should be fine. But these characters are super common in tournaments and in general so you may need to have a solid secondary to deal with them.

1位/BP 321307 G.WARRIOR かずのこ(Kazunoko)/ユン(Yun)
2位/BP 319736 WARRIOR うめはら(Daigo)/ユン(Yun)
3位/BP 260021 WARRIOR マゴ(Mago2DGOD)/フェイロン(Fei Long)
4位/BP 228180 WARRIOR ネ○(Nemo)/ヤン(Yang)
5位/BP 221658 WARRIOR マイケルたん(Michaeltan)/ケン(Ken)
6位BP 205006 WARRIOR はちがしらさん(Yaz)/ユン(Yun)
7位/BP 195403 WARRIOR 伊予(Iyo)/いぶき(Ibuki)
8/BP 185694 WARRIOR ふ~(Fuudo)/フェイロン(Fei Long)
9位BP 170658 WARRIOR バンババン(Banbaban)/ユン(Yun)
10位BP 169211 WARRIOR -6(Akuma)
11位BP 168693 WARRIOR 猫舌(Nekojita)/アベル(Abel)
12位BP 167758 WARRIOR ШおじさんШ(Ojisanboy)/ヤン(Yan)
13位BP /150197 WARRIOR Unknown/サガット(Sagat)
14位BP /146128 WARRIOR 飛翔(Hisyou)/サガット(Sagat)
15位BP 144633 WARRIOR たく@レシオ4(Taku)/ブランカ(Blanka)
16位BP 141335 WARRIOR キャベツ(Kyabetsu)/C.ヴァイパー(C.Viper)
17位BP 139672 WARRIOR Danjiru(Sakura)
18位BP /138616 WARRIOR 赤眼龍(Sekiganryu)/リュウ(Ryu)
19位/BP 135022 WARRIOR Baiza-sanma/ヤン(Yang)
20位BP /134414 WARRIOR まぁクン(Maakun)/ユン(Yun)

全國月間 (Monthly nationwide?)
1位/BP 54026 G.MASTERR うめはら(Daigo)/(Ryu)
3位BP 37060 MASTER Machabo(Feilong)
4位BP 36413 MASTER バンババン(Banbaban)/(Cammy)
12位/BP 34788 MASTER (Amiyu)/DJ)
13位/BP 34788 G.MASTERR かずのこ(Kazunoko)/Seth)

  • the Alioune example.

I think she could win a tournament now. With the twins toned down I think she is really starting to shine again. No one’s really playing her though, but I think that’s more because they are loyal to other characters than Cammy being a bad character.