Can a Good Guy Win it All or Is he Just Average?

guy

#1

So lately I’ve been trying to learn all about Guy as far as match-ups and his frame data, OS etc. The reason I want to main him is for two reasons im a fan of Final Fight as well as a huge SF Alpha ( 90’s baby the good old day’s) secondly im pulling for a low tier to pull off an EVO win. But recently I’ve been looking at youtube videos and I’ve seen some amazing stuff from people like Kiryu Tsukimiya, Papatiwawa, also who can forget Obey and Combofiend. They really make Guy seem like the best player in AE and IMO i think he is. But actually playing online and casual gaming fighting communities others as well as myself make him look average due to being “noob” even so to the point that most online gamers just consider him to be low tier character not even having a chance to win big time tournaments. But I found out from advice and tips that Guy is really worth the character to be played. I was able to get on some win streaks online and also gaming network venues.

But the people that I mentioned above just sometimes make him look like a flawless character. A couple of these guy’s went against Daigo and won but the thing is it wasn’t at the big stage or Grandmaster level of play, I could be wrong cause I don’t have exact proof that a good Guy did win a tournament, but at same time I didn’t see any headlines either. I think he does have the right tools and a great mix up game, also the ability to escape difficult situations, as I’m coming to find out the more I play. I believe some players if not most, make him average because most are comfortable with Shotos and DP fighters and God Tiers thus defaulting him to average. I think it’ll shock most if a pro Guy player win’s it all with Guy, like Mike Ross has done with E. Honda. What do you think?


#2

Guy has the chance to make top 10 with a little luck at a major but to be honest, he can’t win against major players who know the matchup. At least not when it counts. He just has too many flaws and weaknesses. Things might change with the update but don’t hold your breath. You can still main him. Most people dont know the match up that well so you can use that to your advantage and you still have a chance to win regular tournaments.


#3

This is a good question. I see you asked something like this in my thread, so my anwser here goes for both.
I honestly don’t think Guy is high tier, and honestly even after the 2012 version he won’t be. He is not the worst character in the game also, but he is definitely one of the hardest to use in a higher level.
He will always be mid tier, and pro players, when in big ass tournaments as you said, you kick his ass with more competitive characters.
The thing is you can’t rely on his pressure game cause it is too unsafe and you will have to play basically on your opponents mistakes.
Not having a special move FADC cancelable, having little usage for his ultras, having damage scale for most of his combos that can be canceable into ultra 1, having a lame jump a lame throw range and a lame walkspeed, his roundhouse sucking a lot, his elbow being stuffed by most ducking moves in the game, his target combo whiffing on great part of the cast, etc. are things that make it hard to see a Guy player winning a big tournament.
I don’t doubt it, anything could happen, if someone like Mike Ross got him and at the time could make all the correct reads he could win something big, but I don’t think that is likely to happen.
To me, Guy is more like a fun to play character. Cause being honest, all the competitive characters are so lame that they make me sleepy.
I always enjoyed playing video games on hard mode, the challenges make it up to me so…
Well, it is just like they say, there’s more in life than winning and losing…
Many would disagree with me but I don’t care.


#4

Well Combofiend has won a few tournaments or placed well with Guy, Kiryu, Nox2, Otaku, Papa have done well, The best Guy player can’t even be determined many people will instantly say Kiryu or Nox2, Me personally I like Kiyo and Otaku the most out of all the players. Guy has a chance to win but he takes skill to actually win, It’s similar to Yang, if you don’t know what you are doing, how to pressure well and mix up your opponent you’re going to get no where. Yang needs to mixup or spend meter to do any amount of big damage because most of his damage output low and his pressure is alright but most cases he has to spend to meter to stay in the opponents face. Guy has to basically spend meter if he wants to be safe with his pressure as run stop leaves him at -2 at best and a blocked FADC Hozanto leaves him at +1, With 2012 update he becomes a bit more solid but we won’t know all of which will be useful and if he got any hidden nerfs/buffs.

I do alright in local tournaments, I mostly take a loss to a well known player (Dieminion, Noel Brown, Marlinpie, MannyO) and I’m the only Guy player in southern CT.


#5

First Thanks Blooddrunk & Albo Shinobi for replying. So to your point Pedro this is one of the problems that I think SSF4 is having, maybe 60% of the fighters in this game is counted as a low percent chance of winning big tournaments such as Vega, Hakan, Cammy and to just thrown in Guile, also Guy of course, I think this is something that needs to change. Characters like Guy should get more equaled balanced upgrades with top tier characters and the reason why I say that is because you want to be able to bring more variety and a greater hope to players that they do have a chance of beating out Shoto’s /DP characters. The other reason is if you think about SSF4 is becoming bigger and bigger each year with people putting in mad practice to compete and to think that an average tier character is getting shut down alone just by zoning characters, is just going be a total turn off, people like Daigo, Alex Valle and Air Ryu, guy’s like that who are good puts alot of people in unfair advantages because they already know the match up as already mentioned. Another example take Blaz Blue now you can make the argument different mechanics, different play, but most of the characters by far has a chance of winning a big tournament, good players like Kaqn, R-1, and Buppa has shown with different characters that most can be on equal footing regardless of the mad changes Arc makes to Blaz. I just think Capcom needs to take that route and make Guy much more than just youtube highlights (which I’ll be watching) which is helpful but discouraging at the same time to know that there’s a slim chance of winning.


#6

Dude we all totally agree with what you’re saying.
This game is not balanced, it doesnt matter what capcom says.
Now, street fighter has always been a broken game, this is no news.
And about this new 2012 version, we’ve being doing all we can to make capcom see how wrong things are. People made threads asking for changes everywhere, I personally went to the Lockett test and filled the questionnaire they had going there, I’ve seen people complaining at capcoms website, I’ve did it myself twice with different accounts. But the thing is they don’t care. It looks like they want some characters to be stronger, it’s part of the story plot or whatever, I don’t know.
But we are not the only ones to complain, look at other characters like Hakan, Gen, Dan…well, they say all those characters are going to get real buffs and get really strong in this new version,
But to me it looks like all Guy has got is a lot of correction of mistakes that shouldn’t been there in the first place.
Did you see my post in the changes thread? I even recorded my matches at the location test to show what changed.
Anyways, good guy like you just trying to get what’s fair has touched me. Kkkk
You inspiered me to go to capcoms developers blog and post my thoughts on Guy again. It may be useless but it wouldn’t hurt to try


#7

Hey thanks man and your threads are playing a major part in helping others to get better including myself, and just knowing you that far to speak out on better play for Guy lets everybody else know that you want fairplay yourself, so lets continue to make noise so that there can be a change for a bigger chance for players to get on a even higher level of play and a higher percentage to win.


#8

The only guy player we ever see in big tournaments seems to be combofiend, but we all know there are loads more great guy players out there like kiryu otaku nox kiyo papatiwawa, and more that I cant be arsed to think of lol, do they not enter or something, or are they entering but not getting far?


#9

And see thats a good question IZIERIOI: And actually you can go with both. Because maybe these guy’s know that going to these tourny’s against pros from across the world that practices virtually day and nite, that there’s really nothing you can do with Guy pending on his opponent, that you can’t put past them. Again putting him at a disadvantage mainly because he’s a low tier non projectile character. And as I mentioned in a thread I made, Final Fight characters aren’t really in a position to overshadow STF Orignals, just making Guy as Pedro mentioned just a fun character to use. But I think most want to use Guy, but just my Capcom theory lol Ryu,and Ken and other originals is the name brand of the Fighting Genre, not saying that Guy can’t win it but just think if he did, lets just say Daigo gets defeated by Guy cause he used Akuma, most would get out of there comfort zone and use Guy because it was deemed possible just as PK used Seth and beat Daigo, most online started abusing him to the point where you knew what character you were going against. But my biggest fear is the Choco factor where she pretty much used Blanka in the STF 4 before Super and AE and made some noise at tourny’s when STF 4 was pretty much forgotten about because Blaz Blue was the rave. Im hoping that wont happen with Guy but that someone can use him while this version is still occuring.


#10

Well you have to account towards time, I’m not even sure if they go to tournaments because everyone has a schedule you’ll hardly see a lot of them on youtube with matches but Im sure they attend tournaments


#11

Kiryu and Kiyo are always attending tournaments. Otaku does not play SSF4 anymore, and Nox also always plays tournaments.
But I have never seen any of them win a big tournament yet.


#12

Why did Otaku stop, everyone basically credited him to being one of if not the best Guy player in Japan when he played AE.


#13

Can’t just defend anything in AE.


#14

Well it was said from top Japanese player including Tokido so I’d take it for something, but that’s depressing news. He’s probably going for KOF XIII i hope.


#15

I don’t main Guy, but I have an opinion on him from a bit of experience. Correct me if I’m wrong or my opinion has veered off a bit from the truth.

  • Guy’s footsies aren’t rewarding enough, he’s either poking/whiff punishing or taking huge risks to get in, and he has to get close to the majority of the cast because of no reliable meter building or long range game. He has a pretty good AA game, probably one of the best you can get without an SRK, but that’s less important when he doesn’t force his opponent to jump at him.
  • Has to take risks when up close, pressure from Guy is full of guesses and reads compared to those like Fei Long and Yun. When he’s pressuring, the only scary thing Guy has are frame traps, and good setups off of his throws.
  • His damage doesn’t pay off. Scaling destroys him, including his Ultra 1 and Super combos.
  • No gimmick/cheese to get in against high-level players. He can’t neutral jump into dive kick mix-ups at sweep range, can’t fake Blanka ball in front of his opponent, can’t pressure with Rekkas all day until they’re cornered, can’t mix up his jumping game with a late EX dive kick to screw with AAs, can’t dash forward from midscreen to surprise his opponent, no +1 on block armor breaking dash punch that leads into Ultra. Nothing. He has to play straight up footsies or use risky slides/EX Run, or just bait with early elbows which don’t lead into much.
  • No comeback potential. He can come back when down, but it’s because the Guy player made good reads. 12 frame U1 that scales heavily in his BnB combos and a short range jumpable U2 with a mash-unfriendly input make for a lack of something most of the rest of the cast can capitalize on. Hey, don’t get me wrong, I like that Guy can’t land a bullshit Burn Kick into U1 :slight_smile:

#16

Hold up, I’m pretty sure his shoulder charge is FADCable, along with run xx slide (though I’m not sure about the latter).

I think he can still win tournaments. He has a good air-to-air game and with meter he’s pretty solid. If he could build meter faster that would help alot. I’m looking forward to playing 2012 Guy, just to see what his buffs do for his tough matchups.


#17

I meant one that could be used under pressure as a reversal.


#18

Well he was always a poke type character when it came to his normals except he was more of a threat back then because he’d link into a super or something. His AA is top-notch only a few things will actually beat anything he has to offer that isn’t a TK Izuna or EX BSK. But if his poke game was a bit safer, (less frame gap between st mp and lp hozanto, he’d fair very well in the getting in department, right now i think st mp to lp hozanto on block has more than 3 frames where your opponent can do something other than jump, his best frame trap for lp hozanto which many don’t know about is cl st hp to hozanto… theres a 1-2 frame gap where the opponent can press a button and it will always result in them getting hit unless they mashed Ultra or DP.

Yes he has to take risks and his game is mostly guessing but that’s just how Guy has always been, though I’m sure if he had -1 or 0 status on most of his approaches people would a fit saying Guy gets in and can stay in too easily because I have to take a risk spending meter to get him off me. He may not have anything braindead but in the corner at a certain height he can land a U1 for free if he AAs the opponent with Run/Overhead or Hozanto if he manages to hit at the peak hitbox of the shoulder. He’s a character that takes skill along with dedication to play. But I wouldn’t be as far to say that Yun is braindead easy, he does take skill to play, his EX lunge isn’t the easiest thing to get in on, once he’s Mid-full screen its expected to be used, and 9 frame start up while still having to travel gives you enough time to react to it, most of his blockstrings have a small gap between them, its the fact that most people don’t realize how to deal with the twins is what made them seem OP. or at least Yun in most cases. Guy does have good things going for him, just a few things need to be fixed so that he has a better outlook from people.


#19

Nox2 was blowing everyone up at Taito when I was there… including big names like Kazunoko, Tokido, Mago and a couple more… So I don’t know why you guys are saying that Guy can’t win at a high level. Nox2 also OCV’d Hsien/BananaKen in SBO and beat Chiba to get to 2nd round, he lost a very close fight against Daigo.

Guy is viable, the fact that you guys can’t win with him doesn’t make the character shitty.


#20

Personally, I’ve always accounted for my inadequacies with Guy with my overall ability at the game. I try to avoid threads like this because it serves as an indirect excuse, but since Strider couldn’t resist and put it on the table for everyone to see, I feel just a little obligated to point out some of the semantics buried within this topic.

It’s no secret that Guy isn’t the best character. Almost every movement involves high risk. IMHO, if you can FADC an invincible move, chances are that character is better than Guy. Then there are some characters who can do what Guy does, but better. The truth is, that all these fighting games ever boil down to is hitboxes and frames. Player skill is secondary (or as Abel best puts it, analyzing, prediction and reaction). Because no matter how much better you think you are than the next player, if there is a property in the game that doesn’t allow one to maximize his ability as a player, he will have a high loss ratio.

Most, if not all of us, play with Guy because we like the character. Not because we want to be the best with him. However, as humans, we always want to be good at what we do. The more we do something, hobby or profession, the better we want to become at it. As humans, that is our innate response to activity.

With that said, Guy is a very viable character. He has unique tools and similar tools compared to other characters. Answering the thread question, Can a good Guy win it all? If a better player dedicated themselves to the character for a while, then I would say he still has a higher chance of winning a big tournament. A better question would be, Will a player risk $3,000 at a major to prove that he can win with Guy? Currently, that hasn’t been answered yet. So it is up to us, as Guy players, to learn as much as we can, practice and demonstrate what is required to win. If that is too much to ask, then there are 38 other characters that you can become acquainted with.