Can Guile cut it at the top?

guile

#1

Guile has always been one of my favs and I’m looking for a single character to major, the problem I have with Guile is I’m not sure that however good you get with him in SF4 he’s never going to be able to deliver the goods against top tiers rivals.

I think he’s one of the most stylish and genuine skilled characters out there, but I’m starting to think his skillset and style of play are just not going to go the distance at a high level of sf4, particually with the emphasis on ultra damage and the fact that guile’s is relatively useless, at least when you consider the safety, ease of use, juggle potential of characters like Boxer, Abel, Sagat Ryu etc.

I know Muteki was great in ST, but this isn’t Super Turbo, and most of us are not Muteki. Neither is SF4 that played out.

Sean G/Dagger/Fuson etc would welcome your views as you probably know him better than anyone, did you feel that you were just fighting a losing battle character wise at EVO?
Was there something you think you could have done better or did you just reach that level where the opponents character was just more powerful once it was in the hands of something reasonably competent?

So my question is, are there top Guile players out there taking people like wong/Daigo etc to the wire?

If there are then I’ll be happy to stick with him, I just want to make sure I’m not wasting my time with someone who can only go so far.


#2

The fact is, most of us will never compete at a level where playing with Guile really, really, really hinders our ability to win.

Unless you suddenly burst out of your local scene and start killing at majors all over the nation, Guile’s limited tool set won’t hold you back so bad, and even then, Guile (Dagger_G) put the US’s best Viper down. The same Viper that many people consider one of the top players in the US. Sure you could chalk it up to inexperience with the match up, but the fact is, most of the time, the better player will win.

So, unless you plan on playing all over the world Jamerio, enough practice and skill should make your Guile a threat to any Sagat/Ryu/top tier character in your local scene. Even if you do travel, who knows? You might be one of those God like players who make people sweat when they fight Guile.


#3

Yeah I just saw that matchup, well with online capabilities and some great players in London I don’t see what travelling the world has to do with it?

Secondly, despite this post I am a fairly advanced player, I’m just inexpereinced in SF4. So I’m not gonna’ be happy with just being able to beat scrubs, I don’t expect to beat pros as most of them have a much more dedicated regime than me, but I don’t want to be rolled by them either as I have never have been in the past.
Not sure how good combofiend is, if he’s good then I assume he came top 16 at EVO and placed well at Devastation? But didn’t he got beat by Guile who he said was a terrible characer in SF4. IMO that makes him questionable.

But Dagger and Gilley certainly showed much more advanced sf4 guile than mine so its given me something to think about. I only have about 4 hours worth, plus years of old school guile upto Charlie in Alpha 1)

Anything from Muteki’s SF4 yet as I consider him the holy grail of Guile.
And possibly Super Turbo.


#4

I having a hard time with guile right now. I switched from balrog. Guile has some good priorty normals but it is going to come down to playstyle to do well.


#5

Online play means next to nothing in competitive play, latency changes the game completely. Europe in general is not as respected as the rest of the world when it comes to SF4, losing SBO spots to Justin Wong and Marn did not help. That said, there’s talented players everywhere (Ryan Hart beat Daigo 3-2 in a MM). However, I think Peter is talking about becoming a household name in the SF4 scene and to do so, you will need to compete with the top dogs and that usually means traveling to Japan, or at least America. If this isn’t what you are going after, its not as important who you pick. Guile has some hard matches and you will likely have to work harder than your opponent to win and when the gap between players is tight, it can tilt the match towards the other player which is why you don’t see too many Guiles winning large tournaments, its simply so much easier to do so with Ryu and Sagat.

Combofiend is considered one of the top So Cal players and one of the top US players overall. He, along with his partner Alex Valle, are representing as one of the 3 US teams at SBO. At Devastation, I think he placed just out of top 16, losing to Buktooth’s Fuerte (I think?). If you already disrespect a player for losing to Guile, it seems you have your mind made up he’s garbage and you probably shouldn’t use him.

Personally, I think players who main Guile care about more skill and improving their overall game than just winning. Its cool for local play, but hard if you are trying to make a name for yourself.

Edit: Combofiend is tied for 17th at Devastation http://forums.shoryuken.com/showthread.php?t=196138


#6

They guy was bitching about how bad Guile was then he got his ass handed to him by a Guile. He disresepcted himself by…

  1. Either not knowing what he was talking about in the first place.

  2. Not being that good.

There are only two variables and patriotism and loyalty don’t count. Pick one.

I don’t care for team selections, most of this stuff is usually done by who you know (or who knows of you), not what you know anyway, as Sean G will tell you when he was offered a recent spot on the US team ahead of Dagger who SG he said was better than him.
So you’ll have to do better than a 17th place finish at Devastation to convince me that beating fiend who plays C.viper to convince me Guile is a true force to be reckoned with at the very top.
17th is good, but its a placing many unknowns could achieve so using him as an example of top tier IS open to question, but I admire your loyalty.

Secondly, London (don’t mix us up with the rest of europe) has some of the best players in the world playing at any given time as we have a lot of students from asia who come back and forth on holiday and bring some top games to the table.

GigaMSX is a very accomplished ST player and so is Ryan hart (who has won EVO in Tekken and did well in SF4 from the games I saw), and I’m pretty sure they only got that good FROM the level of play they expereinced in that area, which might I add is small enough to fit into the state of texas, so Ironically we probably have some of the best players in the world playing in this area, given they all hang out at a handful of the same arcades.
Which means there is a really high standard of play around here. That’s why I want to know if Guile can hang at the top, if I didn’t think I would be playing top tier talent then it would not be an issue.

Play Giga at Super Turbo and Play Ryan at SF4. I think you’ll get the gist of my point that both of those players will take some of the best in the world to the wire and probably beat them a few times inbetween.
And there are tons of other players of a very similar level of play.

Its easy top talk shit about stuff when all the big tourneys are held in the USA and ASIA.
I doubt half those players would be known if thye had to stump up the air fare and hotel costs to get to an event (which is what we have to do).
Its close to 1500 doallars for a few days and that’s doing it all very cheaply.
Its just not viable, that is why you see a small amount of Asian at US events, I assure you there are many who would beat your top players and you don’t even know who they are as they have no funding.

lastly, online play is not that bad, its still a good measurement, the only thing thats really different at events is all the mind games and nerves that comes with the big tourneys, that is a seperate skill to keep it together.

But to diss an entire continent because I didn’t kiss a 17th finisher at Devastation finishing is kinda’ laughable.


#7

Whoa, let’s just slow it down for a second with the combofiend hate. I have no reason to defend the guy but in general… shit happens. He made an assesment many months ago about guile’s tier position and everyone flips out when a guile beat him like, 6 months after he made the statement. It’s irrelevent.

Combofiend is a good player. Dagger G is a good player. At that moment in time, Dagger beat combofiend. Sometimes people over-exaggerate single wins when they get a lot of coverage. Now, moving on.

Guile sucks. Strait up. He has very little comeback ability in a game that depends on it. He gets extremely little benefit from the FADC system of cancelling. He has average life, but an oddly lower stun rating. His flashkick now sucks. His EX’s; while good, are not to the level of other character. He has VERY few redeeming qualities outside of a few high priority normals and an air throw. No resets. No tricky gimmicks.

Now, if you have the drive, you can take him far. From the sound of it, you don’t. Please don’t take that as an insult, due to the simple fact that everyone has a different temperment for things. You have to be able to be winning a match, only to get shoryu’d through a block string and then eat an ultra for the lose… only to pick the controller back up and do it again. You see, guile can’t do that, and that fact will annoy ANYONE who picks him up. So think if you will be able to stand having the short end of the stick for a long period of time.

Frankly, I play guile because I win with him. That’s it. I play in Japan where fierce competition can be found anywhere you go and I still pull out wins against good players playing top tier characters. It’s NOT because guile is good, it’s because he works for me. At the end, isn’t that the only thing that should matter?


#8

SBO spots aren’t given out. It was a double elimination tournament held in So Cal where the best players from the region came, as well as Arturo and LI Joe from the east coast. They beat out Ken I and Ed Ma (placed third at Evo) in the grand finals to take the spots. Just google them, you should be able to find some match videos and see their accomplishments.

There’s no need to keep bringing up other games, people who are good at ST or tekken or any other game doesn’t necessarily translate to SF4. You really have to put the time in. It sounds like you care more about winning then anything else so I think you should be a tier whore and stick with Akuma/Ryu/Sagat.


#9

What you should have said is, “It’s NOT because guile is good, it’s because I’m good.”

:tup:

The way I feel is you win in spite of Guile, Sagat wins in spite of you.

That’s one of the reasons I like to play Guile. I know when I win, its not because of a gimmick, its not because I got lucky and did a 50-60% combo, I had to methodically wear/grind you down with my 10 s.hp.


#10

Exactly. I’ve been playing Guile since I started playing SF2 like 2 years ago. I tried picking up other characters that I know are better like Ryu, Balrog, Sagat, etc. but they just don’t feel write when I’m playing. I can’t get in a groove. I don’t ever feel comfortable. I don’t ever feel like I’m in total control. I’m sure if someone turned Guile off in this game, I could find another character, but I do pretty well with him so why bother?

Also, online doesn’t matter in SF4. At least for me it doesn’t. I switch between offensive and defensive a lot mid match and both styles get hurt pretty bad by lag. Defensive hurts because a lot of it depends on reaction, and when a quarter of a second makes a huge difference, my 1 bar connection won’t cut it (Look at where I live on the left). My offensive play gets hurt equally bad cause I can’t apply pressure, mix up my opponents as well, and my combo’s (beside mp>fk) are non existent.


#11

:rofl: So well said, so well said. It feels so good when hardwork, determination and constantly attempting to better your playstyle triumphs over those single 50-60% easily landed Ultra gurgled combos consistently.

:tup:


#12

i dont think guile should be represented as low as he is. At first when people weren’t as wise to him he could’ve been seen that way but i always saw huge potential for him. So many play styles to go with. I’m always discovering new combos new strategies. it never ends with this dude. The more i see the more i feel i have to live up to. I thought i had him down pretty well but i keep thinking of new things and seeing others doing some sick shit. stick to him, you wont get bored.


#13

and for sure online play isnt comparable to arcade. when you go to an arcade your timing will probably be off. I cut back playing online and mostly play people versus or i go to the arcade. But not everyone lives in so cal or japan so its understandable.


#14

I feel Guile can be good at the upper echelons of play, but his ultra holds him back. That’s something you’re going to have to live with. Otherwise he’s a solid character.


#15

i get people in ultras simply by focus attacking and crumpling them then busting it. When they whif their ultra do yours. i use it a lot but only when appropriate… you can even link it off of the super if you hit it clean like busting a super right after blocking a slide from Bison, then into ultra. i get my friend like that a lot. also his ultra is great against Akuma and Rufus players for when they do their dive kicks. just surprise them they wont expect it. guile doesnt suck


#16

Yeah, but smarter, better players will never:

  1. Let you catch them in a focus attack.

  2. Do something so unsafe that you could punish with an Ultra. At the upper echelons of play, your opponent will know whether or not you have the db charge for Ultra, so they won’t whiff a fierce srk or something.


#17

and this is the mind set that sets you up for failure. not using the easy gimmicks, set up, combo’s, and other advantages will cause you to lose a match at high level. but aye i guess pride is greater then victory.


#18

Who did Gilley lose to?

He’s a top player, right?

I saw some video of him at EVO and he was busting some of his combos! They looked so sweet!


#19

You missed the whole discussion about Guile not having gimmicks, 50-60% combos, etc.


#20

If you don’t believe in Guile, Guile doesn’t believe in you.