Can someone please explain ssf4 wakeup to me?

So im not new to the game, but ive never really researched myself the nitty-gritty of wakeup in ssf4.

I main balrog and use akuma on the side, but one thing that has been really bothering me recently is understanding wake up. There are things like crouchteching and frame advantage that I still dont truly understand. Ill give a few examples of what i’m talking about.

So say for example i am using akuma. I land a sweep, or an untechable knockdown. Which doesnt make sense to me because obviously if the player is mashing throw on wakeup, he will tech my attempt to throw him.

But what is confusing me is say the frame advantage of an untechable knockdown. And keep in mind i am probably using the term frame advantage incorrectly. Does that mean if i were to walk up to the player after the sweep, that i dont need to crouch tech and can simply go into block strings without having to worry about getting thrown?

and i also dont seem to have a firm grasp of wakeup times. Sometimes it seems to me when i knock someone down via demon flip palm or sweep, they will be able to quickstand. Or am i just tripping out on this. Ive tried in training to get the timing down, but it seems during the heat of the battle when i am expecting them to quickstand, they end up just having the full wakeup time. Are there instances where one is not true? Like a few matches ago i was using akuma and landed a EX-hadoken, which i thought was supposed to make the player not be able to quickstand, but the player was able to.

Thanks for any responses!

Untechable Knockdown: Knocking the opponent down so that they cannot quickly recover. Much of Akuma’s gameplay in SF4 revolves around knocking the opponent down with a sweep as it is an untechable knockdown.

In every flavor of SF4, you can choose to “quick rise” by hitting two buttons as soon as your character lands on the ground. An untechable knockdown is when you can’t quick rise, which occurs after a sweep or throw. This gives you more guaranteed time to set up a mix-up as soon as your opponent “wakes up,” or gets off the ground. Others can fill you in on your other questions.

no youre not tripping. Remember that quick stand is a tool…basically alot of people have a bad habit to try to quickstand all the time which isnt good…(not as bad as cvs2, where there are recovery frames and you can be punished for safe falling as what its originally called.)

but safe fall/quick stand imo is to disrupt the rhythm of your opponents offense…for example. c Viper doing her flame kicks, alot of people. like to safe fall after getting hit by them,to me she is a fast tempo fighter and why stay in her rhythm of offense by quickly getting back up.

not safe falling can also keep you from eating unnecessary firballs, when you see your opponent not safe falling when you know they have the option. its just to disrupt the tempo of your mix up/offensive game.

wait two frames mash lp+lk

Untechable knockdown doesn’t mean they can’t tech a throw when they wake up. It means they can’t quick rise. When you tech a throw or perform a quick rise the word “Technical” appears on your side of the screen. “Untechable knockdown” refers to the latter.

Frame-advantage means how much faster than the opponent you recover after landing a certain move. Eg. Balrog’s crouching light punch is +4 on block, and +7 on hit. Which means that if the opponent blocks it you’ll have 4 frames in which to do another move before they recover from blockstun, and if they get hit by cr.lp you’ll have 7 frames in which to do the same before they recover from hitstun. Note that not all moves have positive frame advantage. eg. Akuma’s crouching hard punch is -4 on hit, which means that if you land this against a grounded opponent and you don’t cancel it (or it doesn’t stun/KO them), they will recover 4 frames faster than you and they’ll be able to punish you with a move that comes out in 4 frames or less provided that it has enough range.

In terms of you example of walking up after a sweep, it has more to do with the concept of “meaties” than frame-advantage. After a sweep, the opponent can’t quick rise so you (usually) have enough time to walk up to them and perform a move that hits them as they are rising. If you time it correctly they won’t be able to jump out of it or throw you, and their only option will be to block, backdash or perform an invincible reversal. If they try anything else they’ll get counter hit because your move is already active by the time they press a button.

All sweeps lead to untechable knockdowns. However, you’re not forced to quickstand if you get hit by another knockdown, so sometimes players refrain from doing it to avoid mixups.

Thanks for all the help ilitirit. I kind of understand more now. I was not aware that a player could choose to quick rise, that makes alot more sense to me.

Another thing you mentioned was “meaties”

That’s actually another thing i suck at. Obviously being an akuma player, most of my game revolves around vortex and being able to pin my opponent down. But i find that often times players are able to move / jump , etc… after a knockdown. What’s the best way to practice meaties? or is it just a timing issue?

“Meaty” means an attack connects on a frame later than its first active frame. Timing attacks meaty increases their frame advantage - frame data tables list advantage assuming a move hits or is blocked on the first possible frame.