Every time I open a thread either it be a Tekken game, Any Capcom game, Blazblu, King of fighters 13, whatever. All the comments say how bad the game is and its nothing like the good ol’ days. For someone who was not around to play in arcades, or super turbo, or what have you. What makes them so good? And what makes all the games that come out now suck so bad?
Edit* What a good fighting game is**** not whats a fighting game lol
Longevity- now a days all the kids have to do is pout and they get a new edition of the game (at full retail price) or some sort of releveling (which completely wipes out any practice you had of the time the game came out originally and now)
No Button Mashing- all someone has to do now a days is hit random buttons to get out a bloody combo, and since almost EVERY game now has air juggles (and easily executed infinite combos) it becomes ridiculous 80% of the time.
Strategy was needed- In street fighter 2 you knew chun li could potentially come down with a toe/heel tap so you needed to watch out when she was in the air. Now, almost everyone has a super/special/blow you away move so when you button mash strategy no longer matters…
Less Flashing Lights- call me old, but that crap often leaves me needing to take an aleve…this shit is not Pokemon.
I could go on…but it doesn’t matter…
Take everybody who says that with a grain of salt. Lots of them are just stuck in nostalgia land. But what makes those games good is the fact that they were the template for every current fighting game. I mean without sf2 NO other good fighting games would have come out. Lots of oldschool players also don’t like the new trend in games catering to scrubs, prime example is comeback features like Rage mode in tekken and X-Factor in marvel. Because in the old days if you were bad you would get rocked HARD by good players and your only choice was to get better. Thats one gripe alot of the oldshcool players have.
I’ll tell you that I don’t particularly care for the new fighting games, but that’s besides the point. The root of it is more this:
It has nothing to do with nostalgia or anything, but rather to do with the players themselves. They tend to want want want, so in turn, what happens is every time I get into a fighting game, it changes, or a new version comes out. That happened in the arcades back when, but after a while, things settled in. This concept of patching games gives developers the leeway to sell an unfinished product and finish it as they go. It also gives the users a sense of entitlement to complain about things so they’re “fixed”. Back in the day, games didn’t get fixed like that. We learned the game, learned the matchups, learned what to do and what not to do the hard way - by shoveling money into arcade cabinets and reading through a lot of misinformation on the internet. Today’s gamer has GOOD information on the internet, but they complain still.
Games were… well, more fun in previous years. I can’t tell you how boring I find it to play SF4 or MvC3 because they’re so slow and… for lack of a better word, “basic”. Compared to SF2 and 3, SF4 is very slow. Basics are one thing, but I think we got spoiled from SF3, because parrying made such an impact that it does NOT have that newbie friendly quality. MvC3 is just slow (compared to 2) and requires a lot less to become ridiculous at it. Marvel 2 went through at least 4 different phases, from the time when Iceman was considered broken, to the time when trap teams were where it’s at, to when Justin started winning with Mag/Storm/Cammy, to today’s MvC2. MvC3 didn’t even have the chance to grow because of two reasons. 1, it’s not quite as deep as an older game, albeit Marvel 2 is only deep due to lack of good programming and 2. We get an update announced 5 months after the game’s released? This goes back to number 1.
I personally hate that arcades are dead. Why? Online gaming is fine for me, as I’m no longer competing in games like I was a few years ago. Online is perfectly fine for me, and I really don’t care about lag and this or that… but it’s just the attitude of players. I was asked to be “friends” with a guy named Bloodmega on PSN. He played me in MvC2… he got scraped… so he sends me profane messages. Seriously, in arcades people just walked away because if you started acting like a tough guy, you’d get your teeth knocked out with some of the vulgar shit that people say online.
All in all, it’s not the games that are particularly bad these days, though I’m not a fan.
It’s the community that bothers me, and in other aspects of life, it’s this entire generation of people, regardless of age.
At the end of the day, it boils down to this:
I don’t like the new games. That’s fine, considering I also didn’t like CvS2, Alpha anything, Marvel 1, MSHvSF, Xmen Cota, or even Super Turbo for that matter… But what this era doesn’t have is what made me play those previous games: An awesome crowd. and awesome players I befriended for years.
Most ST players who believe that supers ruined fighters aren’t ST players, as supers exist in that game. BUT, in your defense, a lot of players used to come to these parts back in 2k3 and 2k4 to complain about supers and throw teching, and most of the time, the vets on this forum would shoot them down for being idiots.
I agree with this… sans a few things, but generally speaking, I do agree with this.
The nostalgic look of some of the OGs is uncalled for, and generally speaking, gaming conditions for fighters WAS NOT better back in the day. It’s better now, just I think many newbies to the era need to get an attitude adjustment. OGs could also learn to not be so entitled like they’re some legend in the fighting game ring.
As for comeback mechanics, you mentioned two. 1.XF, is what killed MvC3 for me. 2. Rage mode in Tekken is something well done. It’s not overpowered at all. We had “come back mechanics” in older games too, Samurai Shodown / K Groove rage system wasn’t off from Ultras in SF4 just to give an example.
The part I don’t agree with is the SF2 part. While SF2 was definitely a catalyst to the movement, it didn’t give birth to it. The genre had a lot of other support, and don’t forget that SF2 was ONLY popular in the states and Japan. The rest of the world catered more towards the SNK fighters.
Longevity and updates have nothing to do with each other. The combos I learned in vanilla SF4 can still generally speaking, be applied in AE. It’s very specific things that get updated. The problem with constant updates is that you face new challenges each time. Just when I was used to a game with powerhouse combos, they put out a turtle version, and when I get used to that, they put out a rushdown version… Generally though, the things you learned can still be applied, just you may have to learn to apply them in different ways or emphasize techniques you didn’t previously.
Button mashing… Umm… you do mash in ST… just sayin…
Strategy is needed in SF4… shit, strategy is needed in DoA2
Less flash? Guilty Gear was pretty damn flashy, and it’s one of the best fighters ever made.
Wow these responses were much better then I expected lol. I always thought less was more. Its a shame with all the new versions, and comeback mechanics there is a much smaller gap between a good player and a bad player. Also, its very dumb that it does take someone 2 weeks to learn a efficient marvel team. Do any of you think a game could be made that does not cater to the new player, and become popular again?
We’ll see when Skullgirls launches. I’m skeptical that a game without features to appeal to casuals will do well in the casual market. When it comes to being popular amongst actual fighting game players, it is 100% possible.
Will it cater to the casual new player? No.
Will it cater to the aspiring new player? Possibly.
Will it cater to the veteran? Possibly, but it depends on if they’re going through menopause when they play it.
No…people still play the original street fighter 2…other editions came out (which were essentially the same but added bosses and a few characters…but they were not released and rendering the original null and void the way the new releases do today)
As a person who often finds new things dissappointing and long for the good ol’ days, I really worry whether it’s just me being more jaded. After all, when I go back and play other people’s “good old days”, I rarely see what the fuss is about.
I think the only true test is if you take someone who started playing on a recent game, be it SF4 or BB or KOF13 or whatever, someone who has the right attitude and you respect, and then expose them to an older game - GGAC, 3S, ST, KOF98, etc, and then see if they somehow like it more.
If they dont, then sadly those classic glory years were just nostalgia, and the, “Kids will like anything” effect.
Well actually Skull Girls still has features that will appeal to casual.
Only difference is that it’ll actually do so instead of being something completely arbitrary like input shortcuts or comeback mechanics. The people behind Skull Girls actually know what people want from a fighting game.
if you’re a super turbo player, complaining about super moves ruining fighters, then you’re probably not a super turbo player.
if you play super turbo, complaining about super moves ruining fighters, you’re a different breed and could very well have your reasons, or not.
If you just complain about supers, find another genre… Other than some 3D fighters, most fighters these days have some sort of super / ultra type of thing.
EDIT: OK, re-read and realized what you were getting at.
I phrased that wrong.
(Mended two things)
What I was getting at was the comment made saying that ST players say that tech throws ruined fighters or super moves.
To say it better, the people that used to come here and complain about things like this would be shot down, much in the same way that new players come here, bring up complaints and get shot down. It’s nothing to do with the players themselves.
In other words, people that go to a forum to complain about this or that is trying to climb up a 90 degree glass mountain with cotton gloves. I’m not going to go to a tea party advocacy web forum and try to promote democracy.
I was born in 89 and grew up grabbing any fighting game on any console I had owned. I enjoyed loved them.
I had played some version of SF2 on my uncle’s Genesis and thought being able to sonic boom and handred hand slap and electricity was the greatest thing.
I got Virtua Fighter 2 on my Saturn and thought it was amazing
I remember the arcade having Tekken machines and the SamSho machine with the massive screen and all the SFvXM MSH MvC machines and Virtua Fighter Ultra Megamix machine.
PSX I had got SFA2 and played it to hell, I had PSX MvC and lost it :[ I had Boombots too >>
I got a Dreamcast and picked up MvC2, it was a bunch of SF characters and Marvel comics man! It was nuts! Also bought Soul Calibur
N64 I had SSB
PS2 I got SFAC, SFAA, VF4Evo, GGAC, Soul Cal 3, borrowed CvS2 from my cousin and still have it >>
Xbox I bought GG#R and Soul Cal 2 for it
Gamecube I had SSBMelee
Anything that looked like a fighting game I bought if I could. Out that list the games I loved were GGAC, VF4Evo (best tutorials and instructionals in any fighting game still), SFA2, 3rd Strike on SFAC, Soul Cal 2.
I loved fighting games, even though I only had my younger brother, cousins and a few friends to play with and when they weren’t around I lived in arcade mode and training mode playing around. Something about wanting to be better than everyone I could play against made these games great.
Fighting games today changed because this generation isn’t the same. Fighting games today aren’t really worse, they’re just different because they have to appeal to a whole different group of new players in a new gaming culture. There’s patches, DLC, online, etc. This new fighting game rebirth is a pretty accurate description of it, they have to accommodate to the new players to succeed and it isn’t as easy to impress these gamers now like having 8 characters and the idea of playing against another human head on was to us back then. There’s no finite amount of quarters in the pocket anymore, no shoulder to shoulder at a machine anymore. Fighting games trying to keep up with the times.
SF4 is alright, better than Alpha 3 imo. I’m gonna catch hate but I like MvC3 more than MvC2. These new fighting games are pretty good and deserve a chance to stand on their own.
My problem with THIS though, is that last sentence. It’s fine that it’s keeping up with the times. But the fact that today’s player wants over 20 years of knowledge of the genre handed to them and EXPECTS it to be is a little uncalled for.
I wouldn’t say that you’ll catch hate from me, but I feel like if you had more experience with MvC2, you’d like it more.
I haven’t really played it much, but I find MvC2 much more interesting to watch, and it seems like it has so many more intricacies than MvC3.
I haven’t really had any experience with the Alpha games, though. Something about them just doesn’t feel right to me. I should probably get more familiar with them though since I find it inexcusable considering the kind of gamer I am.