Can you be a Top Player without a Top Character?

I Mean: Doing very good at tourneys, winning, 2nds, 3rds… without a Top tier Character. CONSISTENTLY

Why optional.

Gamerbee, Vangief, Wolfkrone, Flash, Marn, Luffy, f.champ etc.

They all play characters that people don’t consider to be top tier but consistently place and win. Luffy was winning with vanilla Rose who was way worse off than the current version.

This really shouldn’t be an opinion poll. The tiers are so compacted in this game that a great player playing Dudley or Rose or Adon can win and it’s been proven.

^Adon,Viper,Zangief Rose are upper mid tier characters and Dhalsim is pure top tier.Marn is the only exception but he is known for just going straight to rufus or Viper if things get tough.

I think you can be a top player without a top character but it takes longer to get to the level where you can get top 8 consistently with that character which is why you’re not seeing much of it at the moment.You have to have perfect matchup knowledge and often spot on execution just to make it through the initial stages.

Upper middle tier is not top tier.

I threw in Luffy’s vanilla rose for a reason too.

Also Adon was considered low mid until Gamerbee, he completely changed the perception of the character.

Daigo with Ryu, Ryu is so weak. :frowning:

Yeah, I wonder if Ryu is any higher than Rose, Viper and Adon in the tier list.

I can’t believe nobody mentioned Kuroda yet.


Lowest tier vs 2 top tiers and top players.

Ricky Ortiz and Justin Wong are not top 3s players globally.

Kuroda is literally so good at that game that he can pretty much pick whoever he wants.

Well, OP, there are your answers.

Yeah SF4 doesnt have its version of Kuroda yet.Makoto playing Vega in vanilla and beating big names was a bit like Kuroda style but since then nothing.Maybe with the arcade release someone will become a ‘Kuroda’ but it wont have the same impact anyway because low tier in this game is miles away from Q,Hugo etc. in 3rd strike.

The better question to ask is…can you be a top player using a low tier character?

And I would say no to that…Give me the name of a person who wins tournies consistently or at least get to top 8 consistently with say Dan, Makoto, Hakan, T-Hawk, Sakura or Gen.

I believe if you got a player who is soooo good, that tier DOES matter. Aside from that I don’t think it really applies a whole lot… unless you’re picking bottom 3 tiers, and even then. People make mistakes, and just 1 can cost you.

Like I said though, if you get that player who is THAT GOOD, tier does matter, imo anyways.

I have always said that in a fairly balanced game - and SSF4 has pretty darn compressed tiers - player skill will always win out.

V-Ryu has an insane Makoto, Ryan Hart was wrecking with T. Hawk if I recall, and Skatan Milla has a ridiculous Sakura. Marn’s Dudley here in the USA is also incredibly consistent and he hasn’t been switching off very much at all lately.

No not in SSF4. There aren’t enough tools to separate individual skill in the game. A top player could win a tourney and place decently for awhile with a low tier char but once people get use to the match up he won’t win anymore.

I wouldn’t consider Marn in this category either. He hasn’t been placing well (in comparison to before and as in money placings) when he only uses dudley. While before when he mained rufus/viper he was actually winning tourneys and placing well consistently.

Games with mechanics that allow players to separate themselves a bit more its possible but still doesn’t really happen. Even very good players with weak characters usually don’t place high/win CONSISTENTLY.

If you want to win consistently in fighting games you have to play at least mid tier imo.

What about Justin Wong’s Makoto? He even used it to great effect at Season’s Beatings against Gamerbee if I recall.

jwong beating gamerbee at SB5 with makoto speaks more to the power of matchup knowledge and jump back feirce than it does to top players winning with low teir characters

I respectfully disagree. That’s like saying Guile only wins because he has matchup knowledge and sonic boom. Isn’t using jump back fierce a lot exactly what was called for? Isn’t it matchup knowledge exactly what allows one good player to beat another?

Justin Wong picked a low tier character, applied his skills, used appropriate moves, and analyzed the matchup to get a win. Then wouldn’t Wong beating Gamerbee be decent proof that its the player, not the character? It seems to echo the point I’m trying to make.

Depends on what you mean by top character.

Tier list only tell half the tale. The top of SSF4 tier list just beat on the bottom cast easy and it inflates their numbers but have unfavorable matchups with characters often seen in a tourney environment, while a character like Ryu who is mostly 5-5 is in the mid has the best chance of winning thanks to lack of bad matchups.

Dunno man Abel, Dhalsim, M Bipson, Cammy, Balrog are bad matchups and seem to be popular in America. Ryu mostly good agaisnt the fireball characters and lower tier characters which are popular in Japan.

I think people just put too much emphasis on tiers. Yes, some characters have some really nice tools, but unless a character is complete and utter trash I think you can win with them if you enjoy/understand their playstyle and work with them.

Everyone also has to remember that they’re only relevant at the HIGHEST levels of competition. I hate when people who aren’t even tournament players use the tier list excuse as a crutch for why they lose. That would be like me complaining about the tiers. And who am I? Some scrub nobody, exactly.