Cancelling fuhajin charge right after storing it

juri

#1

Hello, everyone:

I was wondering if there’s a way to cancel/lose a particular fuhajin charge immediately after storing it, so that I have access to the corresponding button again. That would enable me to do things like performing a kara-throw right after a LK charge, or a cr. MK into LK release right after a MK store.

I’d greatly appreciate any help you can offer me with this. Thanks!


#2

I don’t think so SAN_Luis. I’ve always considered that to be one of Juri’s biggest weaknesses.

I can’t remember where, but someone suggested that in Ultra holding a kick shouldn’t be needed to store a FB and doing another qcf+k would fire it. I like the idea, but we’d lose FB meter building (unless we could do qcf+k at a time she couldn’t fire one to get rid of a charge, and even then it would take a lot of inputs to do what we do now) and combos/strings that end in store with an immediate release would take a little more effort.


#3

Thanks for your answer, stormdetonation!

Going a little deeper into analysis, the suggestion you mention sounds interesting on surface, but I think it would heavily unbalance the game in Juri’s favor, as it would mean that she could have simultaneous access to both the kick button AND the charge associated to that button (you could do stuff like s. LK into LK release or cr. MK into MK release). That sounds deadly just by itself, and let’s not talk about what you could do in Feng Shui Engine xD.

In Guilty Gear Accent Core +R, Venom has a nice feature where, if you press the D button in the beginning frames of the ball summoning move, the summoned ball changes the formation it activates. So, at any given time, the same ball summoning move can be used to set up 2 different formations (the normal and the alternate one), and the difference is marked just by the pressing of a button after the move has started. I think something like that could be done to Juri: for example, if you pressed HP during the first frames of the fuhajin store, the charge would be nullified.

Of course, the aforementioned possibility is just wishful thinking. What I really want to know is if anyone knows a way to currently achieve that effect. Sadly, I’m almost giving up the search.


#4

I don’t get why you would need to do this. All stores are the same, so for example you could do HK fireball store then kara throw. If you are going to not use the fireball anyways, I don’t see why it would matter what version of store you use.


#5

There are a number of techniques that I’m interested in performing/testing. For example, I use the cr. LK xx LK Store sequence as a hit-confirm (something very common). From there, I’d like to do different things if it’s blocked or hits:

a) On block, I’d like to increase my mixup options by including the karathrow. Now, releasing the LK at the same time I press the MP, to press LP + LK just one frame after, seems to require inhuman execution for me, so I figured out that getting rid of the LK charge was easier. If anyone knows of a different approach to enable the karathrow option in this situation, it would be very welcome.

b) On hit, midscreen, I’d like to test if I can hit with a karaed Ultra II, like this

With what I currently know, this would require to hold the 3 kick buttons after the store, press MP, and then finish the negative-edged input for Ultra I in the next frame, another thing that seems incredibly difficult for me. It would be much easier to map the 3K button and then do a normal kara sequence, but if I have a stored fireball then I cannot use the 3K button. Again, any other alternative method to do this is greatly appreciated.

There are other things I’d like to try, but these are the most important ones. I hope this justifies my doubt.


#6

The quickest way to get rid of a fireball charge is to whiff a stand LP and release the kick button during that move. You can whiff any move but stand LP has the fewest frames.

There’s no reason this particular set of options couldn’t be done with an MK or HK store, though of course you can’t just release the fireball. If you do HK fireball store here, you still have the option of EX low fireball. If you end up holding MK/HK in their face, you could try landing another light attack into LK store and release MK/HK during that store. Basically though, you have to think about your stores in this kind of situation.

I’d like to note that the video shows an armor-cancel U2, not what most people think of as a kara. It would be interesting to see if fireball store into kara-U2 combos on more characters than the non-kara version though.


#7

I was checking how to do a karaed Ultra with other characters, and I found this video:

Seems like Negative Edge is the only option I have for achieving b). BTW, I’m interested in this technique because Juri’s Ultra II horizontal range will be expanded in Ultra, and store - Ultra may become a staple combo for her (it sounds very possible, at least in theory).

However, regarding option a), I still haven’t found an answer. Indeed, as you say, I could do the store with MK or HK, but those button’s releases aren’t as useful as the LK one. I feel that I’m sacrificing a valuable option.


#8

You haven’t found an answer for option a) yet because there is no answer. It doesn’t work. You cannot get rid of the fireball charge unless you release it during another move (whiff s.LP and release LK store) which means that if you want to karathrow after a blocked fuhajin you have to use MK or HK Store as voidstar said.

cr.LK xx store is anything but common. You are like +2 on block so you can already frametrap. Why would you cancel into Store to be -1 again ? If you want to throw them just do cr.LK cr.LK wait for them to whiff their normal and then karathrow / whiffpunish.


#9

Close strings into LK store used as hit confirms are widespread, Shiroyasha. Taking just one example:

2:46, 4:23 , 5:50, 6:02, 6:48, 10:22… you get the idea (there are more case in that very video). Those examples also serve as proof that you can educate your opponents to avoid any attempt of retaliation after the store, which opens them up for mixups like the kara throw one I’m trying to add to my game. In many cases, I prefer to do the string with cr. LK since it’s a fast non-distance-dependent normal (and it leaves me close to the opponent). 6:48 is a perfect example of the situation I’m trying to take advantage of.

If you think that my curiosity is not a valid one, feel free to ignore it, but please don’t make it look like one that doesn’t even deserve an answer, as someone else may be able to provide a different insight. You stated that what I’m trying to achieve cannot be done, and I thank you for your answer. If no one here comes with an alternative, it may end up being the one I will accept as final, sadly.


#10

I’ll try doing some kara throws after store next time I play, I’ll let you know how it turns out (By using MK store of course). Abel has poor buttons after a store, so in this case you see the abel block a lot. However, you’ll find that most characters with good buttons at that range opt to hit a button after store because she is negative, so I feel it will be relatively hard to land.


#11

I think stores in block strings do have some uses, such as hit confirming from different ranges, getting ready to zone again, or just trying to throw you’re opponent off. I only say this, because I used to have the mentality that stores in blockstrings are worthless, because I always thought “why store and be negative when you could do cr.lk cr.lk hitconfirm and be positive”. Not sure if this is what you meant though.


#12

I said cr.LK xx Store. Why would you give up the opportunity to frametrap after cr.LK with cl.MP or cr.MK ? I saw younashi doing s.LK into store but I don’t think it’s useful and from all the matches I have seen it really is barely used anymore. Even if he does it, I still don’t think it’s right because you have at least 1 more chance to frametrap your opponent with cl.MP and if it is blocked you get the same results due to cl.MP moving you forward.

If I want to karathrow my opponent I rather use blockstrings that leave me positive, so I can either frametrap or whiffpunish techs with karathrow, instead of putting myself at a range where I have to walk in again for half a second just to be in karathrow range. Of course stores in blockstrings have their uses as you mentioned but I don’t think that karathrow after store is something to rely on unless you’re 98% certain that your opponent wouldn’t press a button again due to prior actions like:

  • TK dives after store
  • cl.MP xx release > cr.MK xx store > max distance cr.MK range Juri can whiffpunish crouching pokes.

After a blocked store I mostly start playing footsies again because people won’t stop pressing buttons the moment you give them an opening.

In the end I think karathrow after store can be useful but I found it to be useless outside of the corner since people can just walk back. It’s just a tiny gimmick rather than a legit option and it’s not rocket science either.

If you play vs Ryu he could cr.MK xx EX fireball fadc Ultra, Cammy could jump out of that string and do EX dive into ultra, Ibuki could overhead that poke etc. It’s just so risky because you’re -1 and our cr.MK has 6 frames startup. I used to do that string a lot until I got punished really hard for doing them. Risk reward is not really in our favor, cr.MK beats walkup karathrow and cr.MK xx release due to frame disadvantage.
Instead of trying to stay on top of my opponent I rather go back and play a neutral game again with TK dives or whiffpunishes since they’re safer and you almost get the same results in damage.

I don’t say don’t do karathrow after store at all since it can be valid especially vs characters like abel or players that don’t press buttons, but it’s really not as good as the other options and more like a gimmick vs people who don’t know the frames or their own options against it.


#13

^What he said.

BTW, kara throw after store doesn’t even work, just tested it. Tried against multiple characters / situations and never could connect it unless i walked forward first :v.