Canon-wise, does Ryu have Dejin-hadou?


#1

I personally doesn’t think that he does.

Apart from the actual game itself, I haven’t read any stories, canon or non-canon, or seen any semi-decent art, canon or non-canon, of Ryu throwing Denjin-Hadouken. We all know that he does indeed have Shinkuu Hadou, and ShinSho, but I think Denjin was a pseudo-filler SA.

We also know that Ryu has powerful kicks canon-wise (CE, turbo, etc, Ryu’s Tatsumaki improved so that he could knock down in 1 hit, while Ken was known to have crazy fast kicks, so he got his eggbeater tatsumaki) so it is believable that the got that Joudan Geri (boot kick in SF3) in SF3.

No where else does Capcom state that Ryu learned to channel electricity in a form of a hadouken. In addition, gameplay wise, SF3 is the only game which Ryu has Denjin…All of Ken’s SA’s in SF3 have been shown in other games.

Your thoughts? If you do refute me, please give me some evidence, that would be appreciated.


#2

Ryu’s official move list

Who says Ryu never changes? (gameplay wise)

The Dejin Hadouken is also in SFEX3. You can say SFEX isnt canon, but almost all the moves in it are, ie Capcom liked so much they just stole them and decided to add them to the character’s official move list, the first of which being Bison’s kick grab, first showed up in SFEX, but the first Cacpom game it was in was Capcom Vs SNK.

If its Capcom game, and its canon, then the moves are canon, ie

Street Fighter
Street Fighter Alpha (series)
Street Fighter 2 (series)
Street Fighter 3 (series)

The only exception is Evil Ryu’s Shun Goku Satsu.

There are other canon moves that dont appear in those games though, like Bison’s kick grab as I mentioned.

Evidence would be the “All About” books

Ryu also gained a new move in Capcom Fighting All Stars, ie his “finishing move” which the was Kaze No Kobushi (fist of wind), the move that KO’d Ken in one punch in RYU FINAL.


#3

Also, CvS2 Evil Ryu has Metsu Hadoken, which is basically Denjin Hadoken except he can’t control how long it charges.

What’s Metsu Shoryuken?


#4

Ok, the official movelist I’ll take as canon.

But again, no offense I won’t take EX as canon. As for CvS, that’s not canon either. I really do like EX a lot, it’s fun, and I follow the story, and I like the story (as little info as there is, esp the supporting chars) but I think both are more of a side-story. Same with CvS2, you can’t really use reverse justification because those games are officially non-canon.

The “All About Capcom”, I don’t have the actual book, but I will try to find scans of it to check again.

I haven’t kept up with the info of CAS, but I’ll take your word on it.


#5

Haha. I remember that thing. We called it “Shin Standing Fierce” when we saw the preview videos. It’s really too bad that it’s never going to be released. Since i’m such a combo fanatic, i would love to be able to get my hands on even a beta of the game just to see what sorts of things they had thought up. I really hope someone in Japan manages to get a copy somehow and makes some videos. Wishful thinking, i know …


#6

The move (Evil) Ryu used to scar Sagat’s chest, its basicly Ryu’s Shoryu Reppa or Metsu Gou Shoryu.

The Metsu Shoryuken is more long range and travels the screen, where as the Shin Shoryuken is more close range.

Both are strong as hell, but the metsu one is more “evil” while the shin one is more “pure” (in SFA3 the Metsu one takes away more I believe)

Well you shouldnt take them as canon considering CvS1 is a crossover and SFEX is made by ARIKA, but just because the storyline is un-canon dosnt mean the moves are, ie its like saying Ryu doing the hadouken isnt canon just cause he does it in SFEX.

Most people dont know the EX storyline though, ie most people dont know that in EX2 Kairi kills Akuma, and/or in SFEX3 Kairi & Hokuto kill one another.

Not side stories, alternate realities, its like this

Universe A - Street Fighter Universe
Universe B - King Of Fighters Universe
Universe C - Marvel Universe
Universe D - Street Fighter EX Universe
Universe E - Capcom Vs SNK Universe
Universe F - Marvel Vs Capcom Universe

Basicly there are ALOT of univereses within Capcom’s fighting games (although EX isnt theirs) and each universe has it own storyline, the stories may start off similar, but at a certain point in time they change, ie Ryu’s storyline up until all those games is the same but once his character hits that point of where those games start then his story begins to change along with everyone else involved.

Well it got canceled, but people have gotten the chance to play it, lucky or un-lucky depending on the person’s opinions, but my friends/sources are game testers, and they of course played it which is really the only reason why I really know anything about CFAS.

EDIT:

I used to have some of the vids of it on my comp, like Batsu Vs Charlie, but I dont anymore. M, you got a link to the Ryu vid?

Yeah it be cool if someone did get there hands on it to make vids so people could make a fairer judgements about it, even though I still thought it looked bad, and I had seen lots of vids, and when I say looked bad I mean visualy, trying to make cartoonish characters looking somewhat realistic never works, example SFEX3.

I still think the game would done a hellva lot better if it had retained Project Justice’s look. The CFAS engine is a modified version of PJ’s engine, but the major problem with that was Capcom was using technology that was developed by a team that no longer worked for them, Team Naomi, so they didnt know how to properly use the engine, not visualy anyway.


#7

I get what you mean, however hadouken is availiable in every incarnation and every reality of SF. Then again, Joudan Geri is canon imo, and it’s only in SF3.

Yea, I know the EX story. Kairi kills Akuma, and Kairi and Hokuto are destined to kill each other, even though they are related (I forgot if they were brother or sister or not), but Nanase is destined to stop them from fighting. Kairi has a bad memory lapse. Allen’s first loss in a fight came from Ken, who basically inspires him to train harder. D.Dark went insane after he was the only survivor from an attack from Rolento. Durun is the bodyguard of Pullum, who apparently is a princess. Skullomania is some normal dude turned superhero. CrackerJack wants to become a member of Shadaloo. What I meant was support characters, like Allen, have basically 3 sentence storylines.

Ok, I’ll rephrase my title: There isn’t much info given to make Denjin Hadouken seem canon.


#8

Just wanted to add that Metsu Shoryuken is not worth the 3 bars. :slight_smile:

If you want to see it in action, play Alpha 3.


#9

Why wouldn’t it be?

I mean, just because you see/don’t see a move in a game doesn’t mean the character has/doesn’t have it.

Examples:

Ken: Shippu Jinrai Kyaku
Has it in SFA3, which happens before SF2, yet he doesn’t have it in SF2. He has it again in SF3.

Chun Li: Tenshou Kyaku
Has it from SFA to SSF2T. Doesn’t use it in SF3.
Sen-en Shuu
Has it in the Alpha series only.

Denjin will become storyline-important when and only when he needs to use it for something. Probably when Capcom wants to remind gamers that he has it.

Has the Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku EVER been storyline-important? No.

Has he ever not had the move?
No.


#10

http://www.shoryuken.com/forums/thread55090.php


#11

Actually, the only reason i mentioned it was because it doesn’t matter how crappy a game is, it can still be used to produce really cool combo videos. It’s an added bonus that none of us know at all what the game’s engine was supposed to be like, so it would be awesome to see someone with some skills showing off what can be done. Of course, the engine’s potential and the use of that potential are two different things. Which explains why games with awesome combos can still turn out to be the extreme opposite of fun to play.

The place i got it from was a Japanese video site called Replay Data Land. But unfortunately, they seem to be down now. Here’s the URL anyway: http://sk.redbit.ne.jp/~replay/game_movie.html
If i see it somewhere else, i’ll let you know. Most standard subscriber sites have the previews though, such as IGN and Gamespot.

Hm. I just looked up Kao Megura’s movelist for SFA3 and Ryu’s lvl3-only super is listed as the Metsu Shoryuken. That’s weird because i imagined it being the triple uppercut super that Ken and Evil Ryu use (from TAS’ description). So it doesn’t sound like Capcom had a very well-defined idea of what Metsu Shoryuken is supposed to be.

That’s awesome!


#12

Do you think they got it mixed up with Shin Shoryuken? That seems like the biggest possibility for now…


#13

nortlee:
No, because the Alpha 3 version is definately different. He does an elbow lunge attack and if that connects or is blocked, he does what looks like a fierce Shoryuken. If you distance it perfectly, there’s a second variation of it where he does the Shin Shoryuken after the elbow connects. It only works from a very specific distance, basically as far away as you can be without it whiffing entirely.

The best way to find this distance is to do low strong, low forward. So you can actually get the whole thing to combo if the low strong is either meaty or counterhit. It looks pretty dope. The combo was found by Hsien in Texas, i believe. But that was way before V-Isms were discovered to be as powerful as they are, back when people used to actually play A-Ryu from time to time.

Thought nowadays, there’s something we call the “A3 minigame” which is A-Ryu vs A-Ryu. It comes up when a bunch of good players are gathered (for example at Valle’s house), and we only have access to A3 for some reason and nobody wants to bust out a bunch of rusty V-Isms. A-Ryu vs A-Ryu is nothing but footsies and mindgames and good exciting Street Fighter action : )


#14

Hm sounds like I have to start practising, can’t believe I never found that out after all these years, well then again in Alpha 3 Shin Shoryuken was not my most favoured move…
Is there any notable difference to the 2 different types of shoryuken’s as in appearence & power?
Thanks for the info btw :slight_smile:

So what exactly is the Metsa Shoryuken, the fierce Shoryuken Shin shoryuken or what? sorry I’ve goten myself lost, meh :S


#15

The Metsu Shoryuken is the one that goes across the screen and Evil Ryu uses in SFA3, and the Shin Shoryuken is the one that has the gut punches.

The two names are often mixed up or are mislabeled, but the Metsu “Destruction” one is the “evil” version which is why Evil Ryu has it, but Ryu also knows how to use it, though I think canon wise he’s only ever used it against Sagat when he became Evil Ryu for that short period of time.


#16

Well, this is how the SFA3 Ryu Metsu Shoryuken looks normally.

http://lowfierce.com/sfcmedia/random/sfa3-ryu-lvl3uppercut.gif
(taken from http://www.fightersgeneration.com)

If you connect with the very tip of the elbow as described in my previous post, instead of following up the elbow with what looks like a fierce DP, he follows it up with what looks like a Shin Shoryuken. In other words, after the elbow connects, he turns around and does the uppercut from the front, using the same sprites that are used for his Shin Shoryuken in MvC2.

As i said before and as TAS seems to be saying, maybe there was a mistake in calling this move the Metsu Shoryuken. Cuz from what TAS says, the Metsu Shoryuken should look like Ken’s Shoryu Reppa. But Kao Megura’s SFA3 FAQ calls SFA3 Ryu’s lvl3 super the Metsu Shoryuken, and he’s usually right on about these things. So maybe it was either a mistake on Capcom’s part, or Ryu keeps changing his mind about what the Metsu Shoryuken really looks like.

I’m curious though, where was it said that Sagat used the Metsu Shoryuken to scar Sagat? Cuz in both the SF Anime and the Udon comic, Ryu did it with what looked like a simple HP Shoryuken.


#17

I’ll give that Shin shoryuken a tester tomorrow thanks for the info man :slight_smile:

I think Kao Megura must have been wrong, if you play Street Fighter 1 all Ryu has is the tatsumaki senpu kyaku, hado ken & shoryu ken just like in the first 4 versions of SF2, there was no such thing as a super combo, I’m just gonna vote it out as incorrect, shin shoryuken was more of an Alpha attribute by origin, though if it was ever in the comics as Ryu didn’t have it in SF2 Udon should move it up to part of his training in the SF3 plot branch IMO.


#18

From the SF Plot Canon Guide…

I just checked a move FAQ, and this is what it listed…

But the Messatsu Gou Shoryu should be the Metsu Shoryuken, since Ryu never learned the Messatsu Gou Shoryu, but the Shun Goku Satsu is the only move of his that has been stated as not being canon.

Look at this

Shoryuken - Rising Dragon Fist
Shin Shoryuken - True RDF
Metsu Shoryuken - Destructive RDF

Basicly it would make no sense to call an incomplete version of the true version destructive.

The only other move that an SF char that causes confusion is Sakura’s Shun Goku Satsu, which people will usualy dissmiss as being canon cause they think its like Akuma’s, but its really something that looks similar, ie in Sakura’s version she actualy just runs over grabs the opponent then beats the crap out of them, but Capcom made it look similar to Akuma’s (in the SF games) so its named the same thing to avoid confusion, like someone would say “Why does Sakura’s version have a diffrient name if it looks exactly the same?” the only time the move is shown and named correctly is in Rival Schools.


#19

Evil-Ryus SFA3 ending tells you about how he nail sagat with the metsu shoryu. Pretty cool ending.:cool:

Capcom stated before that ryu was suppose to master the fireball and thats how he learn denjin hadouken. Though I think how evil-ryu got the metsu hadou was because of the SFA anime. when ryu charge the fireball in that anime, it look like the denjin hadouken, but instead it was the dark hadou. I do prefer Evil-Ryu having the fireball cause it look better when he unleashes the fireball. If ryu have those moves in the game, then i consider it cannon.:smiley:


#20

Its not from the SFA anime at all, the charge fireball has been something Capcom has always wanted to do but never got around to doing, examples of the charge hadouken before SF3

  • SF2 anime
  • SFA2 intro (tribute to SF2 anime)
  • SF2V series
  • VS Marvel series (shown beofre Ryu fires the beam)

So basicly the charge with the lightning around it had been shown in lots of areas before SF3, however SF3 was the first place it appeared with an actual name, ie Dejin Hadouken, and was the first time a player was given control over it.

Capcom has pulled LOTS of stuff form the SF2 anime, and the charinging hadouken is only one of them.

The move later showed up in Project Justice and Street Fighter EX3.