What in the world do I have to do to beat Lariat spammers. I know you can trip them, but once I start doing that the grab mix ups come into play. This has become very frustrating.
I know we dont get into this much as sak players but zone like hell with standing roundhouse and Crouching medium kick. x_X Be patient. This matchup sucks
I just fought a giefer the other day and recorded this match. About 1:13 in you can see some decent zone tactics against giefs. other than that you might get lucky and catch them with an ultra after they start the lariat. or you can try and time a good mix up combo
I say dont be ashamed to let the clock run out. If the Gief is trying to rely on spam to win, then I have no problem playing tag and watching the time run out.
If you charge a lvl 3 focus just outside of his lariat range, it’ll go through the lariat (armored while attacking) and crumple him. Not the best, but it works on particularly crappy giefs. I imagine if he notices you doing that, he could just move closer and hit you, though i don’t see why you couldnt just backdash out of you saw that happening.
If you time/space it right, j.hk beats lariat.
Crazykat has the right idea though, if he’s just gonna spam lariats, then just time a few charged fireballs to hit him and run away the rest of the round.
If he really is just SPAMMING that isht, just wait until the last turn, and HP shoouken. Jump back and repeat.
Thanks for all the tips guys. What about when the Gief starts using the belly flop and lands with lariat and repeats. Crouching HP wont work on the flop. Any ideas on that one?
Ah, yea… thats just about when I get pissed and throw my stick at the nearest wall.
best bet is probably to just block… oh yea, then I get spd’d and it’s stick vs wall again.
jn.hk is your best friend. It will stuff the lariat most of the time and since you are in the air you can’t get grabbed.
ex shouken or simply blocking and waiting for a chance to jump are your best options to get out of the mix ups.
ex shouken is good because of the invincibility. If you do it right you won’t hit with it but you’ll fly across the screen while he is still in recovery which resets the situation.
Things that work against lariat:
c.mk xx shouken
s.hk (just as the lariat finishes)
cross-over j.lk seems to stuff it and you can still combo with it
nj.hk (with correct timing)
the only good zoning pokes to use on gief are low forward and c.rh(sweep). gief’s s.strong beats all of sakuras moves, except for c.rh. but gief will be wise to this and use moves like s.forward to stuff sak’s sweep, thats when you go back to low forward xx fierce dp counter poking.
do not use focus a lot on gief, gief kills focus better than any other character in the game, due to lariat. use very sparringly. even if you focus, then absorb one hit of the lariat, the 2nd hit will get you. sometimes it will trade on 2nd hit. it is NOT worth it. you just took 2 full damage lariat hits, while you hit him with a crummy lvl2 or 3 focus and couldnt take advantage of crumple. use it to bait out laraits. focus, backdash, you see the lariat, punish with s.rh, c.rh, ex dp, or ultra. what move you do depends on the range and also whether or not hes doing punch or kick lariat.
jumpins are 50/50 territory. against a good gief that knows how to play sakura, he has a 50/50 chance to AA a good sakura. and s.rh is only one part of the equation. you have to mixup your jumpins on good giefs. if you jumpin and are on the frontside of giefs body, do an early j.rh, which requires a specific lariat timing to beat. gief will eventually figure out j.rh and beat it. so be clever and jump from a closer range with a semi deep j.fierce, you should be hitting slightly behind his head. this requires gief to alter his lariat timing. if he isnt precise, you wil lget a clean hit, and get damage. If you keep beating his lariat, he will start to second guess his AA abilities vs sak and he will eat jumpins all day. against scrubby giefs, j.fierce will almost universally work everytime.
if you ever corner gief and land an ex hk combo and decide to juggle with otoshi, only do 2 hits. if you do 3 hits, you just put yourself in the corner(only do 2 hits vs every character if you land this on a cornered opponent) and now you gotta spend your momentum time getting out of the corner before he gets up and now you lost momentum. so only do 2 hits.
i know shenanigans are risky against gief. but doing mixups vs him will teach you to be better with her mixup game. since you cant do a basic crossunder left or right game vs gief since 360 is universal, it forces you to be more creative. sometimes after a shenanigan setup, you just jumpup and force him to wiff the 360. or you just throw once they land(throws are slightly faster than regular 360, and will beat lariats). make him scared to reversal 360 during shenanigans, then you can start doing the other standard mixups. be warned, its always a big risk vs gief. be smart. on scrub giefs(99% of giefs online), neutral jump rh after a shenanigan setup will work almost everytime cuz they will pretty much spam a 360/ultra/lariat every single time.
i believe vs gief, and vs a lot of characters too, sakura has to play risk/reward games. its not in her favor, but you have to play big risks to beat him. she cannot constantly hold him out with zoning, since his normals are superior to hers.
another thing you need to worry about, is if gief empty jumps, your c.fierce AA will wiff most of the time. you have to pay really close attention if hes gonna do a jump attack or empty. cuz if gief empty jumps and you c.fierce, its gonna wiff and you are gonna eat an ultra or 360. best bet is to jump back. worst case scenario, he doesnt empty jump, you get hit out of the air and take damage, but you create some space. much better than wiffing and eating 70% damage. if you dont like gief bullying you around with the jumpin game, you can walk forward and try to late hit AA c.fierce the backside of his body if he neutral jumps. this does work, but timing and spacing is crucial, and its not in your favor.
Other than gief’s neutral jump issues, c.fierce beats all of his jumpins.
also, when engaged in a footsie game, instead of trying your luck with aa c.fierce vs his jumpin, sniff out the jump and counter the jump with j.strong(really powerful vs gief) or neutral j.forward.
option select ex dp is not safe vs a gief that has meter. option select ex dp is mostly a good tool vs everyone in sf4. but not gief. if you ex dp gief, and he blocks, you obviously want to fadc out of it. unfortunately, gief can ex banishing flat and hit you out of your backdash. so be careful when using option select
like i said, vs gief, you gotta take risks. you gotta know this matchup. its winnable, but requires considerable match knowledge.
i was just playing online against a gief.
first round i was playing super defensive and ended up barely winning. 2nd round i just went for it and put a lot of pressure on him with a lot neutral jump HK’s and ended up doing a lot better.
trying to stay in the air, when it made sense, worked really well for me against that guy.
Yeah, if he has Ultra and jumps at you I’d be expecting an Ultra attempt 9/10 times x_x;; Jump the fuck out of there!
If you’re particularly on the ball you could probably meet him in the air with j.MP and v.j.MK rather than relying on c.HP.
I’ve had mixed success with both v.j.MK and v.j.HK against his Lariat, not really sure why it works sometimes and why it doesn’t others
It’s been mentioned in another thread, his Banishing Flat is unsafe on both block and hit and EX is unsafe on block. On hit it’s probably safest to throw him away (back through to put distance between you) but on block you should have plenty of time for s.HP/c.HP xx Shunpuu
When I play a gief I take special care never to do cross-ups or jump in on them. Your srk works great as a counter from a distance while they are spamming jabs. Other than that you just have to work the match so you don’t get cornered, use tatsus in the air to cover distance.
no way, you NEED to jump in on gief. she seriously the only charcter in the game that can actually jump in on gief.
SaBrE, I’m having some trouble with figuring out why my j.lk crossups work sometimes and sometimes it doesn’t. Like it stuffs Lariat and sometimes it won’t =\
Is there a specific timing in his lariat that is susceptible to jump-ins? So far I understand that his hitbox moves from low (regular hunching-over standing height) to high (straight-back lariat), and Sakura needs to connect almost on top of his head to stuff =\
For those that don’t know they can jump-in on Gief: [media=youtube]3rOEnL9WO2g&feature=PlayList&p=61CB4E14F13194ED&index=23"[/media] video.
sabre, sorry about that PM last night… JUST saw this thread existed today.
Nice perfect at the end =3
Seems to me like Light Shunpuu links are fairly risky, botch them up and you eat an SPD Guess the same is true for regular links but they’re easier to do
eish: you know what, to be honest. im not entirely sure. i do know that when lariat is fully extended tho, his head is fully exposed. his hitboxes are suprisingly under his underarms, IIRC. i dont go for crossup too often on gief. i save that if im feeling frisky and everything is either going my way, or if im desperate. i also only tend to use it when hes cornered. it seems to work better then. plus its just easier to crossup cornered opponents =)
just watched the video. be careful. i can tell ssj2jeff doesnt know the matchup too well. especially towards the end of the match, you comboed into a rh hk. BAD idea vs gief. most of the time(except when super close), the 3rd hit will wiff and gives gief a free 360/ultra. the fact he didnt take advantage of it, shows lack of matchup exp. hes got so much time to read that. plus the fact he wasnt using s.strong enough. man, when gief has sak cornered and hes spaced properly, s.strong spam completely kills her free. nothing she can do but random ex dp. i could tell you didnt fear his pokes midrange cuz you never swept. he never would throw out s.strong to force you to switch up pokes.
and yes, doing short hk links is a little dangerous. doing the short hk from a distance is fine by itself. the problem is, when you try to link after, and it doesnt combo, you are extending your body out, putting yourself in giefs throwing range(he can grab limbs). but you gotta have faith in your links if you want to get damage on gief.
TBQH I didn’t know about the 3rd hit on rh.Hurricane whiffing either XD Ty for that :lovin:
Played against a Gief last night that would use s.Forward / s.Strong poke (FML that shit is fast!) and I found that I could counter poke it with c.Forward, though the timing was a lot harder so yeah, I had to switch it up with like trading with s.Strong =\ Wish I saw this thread before I played the guy =\
Thanks for the write-up =) Will try to put this stuff into use :tup:
Oh, and Jeff is a Balrog player who picks Gief to spite me =(