Capcom's Intended Tiers


#1

I’m bored, and figured I would start a post. I don’t think capcom (or really any fighting game maker) tries to make a perfectly balanced game. There are always favorites or characters that are intended to be really good by design. What do you think Capcom’s intended top tier was when releasing 3rd strike? Limit yourself to 5 “top tier”.

In no particular order:

  1. Ryu - Though he lost a stock of shin shoryuken, I think Ryu was intended to be one of the best characters. He has really easy and incredibly damaging combos. He also has Denjin which would probably seem like an incredible super at a passing glance. It’s unblockable afterall. You have to remember that game makers aren’t always the best “game players”. To a new player, Ryu’s tools would seem very good.
  2. Chun - There is no way you could program her with the stupid amount of priority and easily hit confirmable/damaging SAII and not expect her to be incredibly good.
  3. Akuma - Nerfed from 2i, but I think he was given his low stamina because capcom felt he was that much better than the rest of the cast.
  4. Ken - If I were to guess, I would say Capcom designed Ken to be more flashy than Ryu, but not quite as good. It was probably intended for him to be better than a lot of the cast but I don’t think Capcom figured he’d end up better than both Ryu and Akuma by a large margin.
  5. Yun - I’m undecided on this one. Capcom wanted to make Yun different than Yang. His SAII has 3 stocks, his GJ is different from Seiei Enbu. I think it is safe to say that Yun was intended to have better SAs while Yang would have better normals and EXs. When programming GJ though, I wonder if it was intentionally made as good as it is, or if this was some sort of fluke. Regardless, there are some incredibly easy GJ combos (though not max damage) that could be accomplished right off the bat that did good damage, so I figure they had an idea of how good GJ was when 3S was done.

That is basically what I feel was Capcom’s intention on who would be the best. Characters like Ibuki and Sean were severely knocked down as they were probably never intended to be that good. Q and 12 were (no offense) probably half baked additions at best. The principals were good. A character with air dash and a defense based character who increases defense with taunts, but the implimentation was not very good.

Something else is that Capcom did not know about kara throws. Chun despite her retarded priority, would have very little mixup outside of her kara throw and was not supposed to have any real AA. So as another case of a fluke, Chun ended up better than she was intended to be.

(note: yes I know this isn’t really strategy, but I doubt anyone on the fighting games board would care and it would turn into a “3S is not balanced/parry sucks” post).


#2

I don’t think Capcom saw the potential of Genei Jin, wheras they saw the potential of Senei -Buu (whatever it’s called), because Senei Buu is damage buffered to hell, whereas genei jin is not.

You can kind of tell what capcom saw and didn’t see by looking at damage buffering. They didn’t see Dudley’s and Necro’s 5 hit juggles in the corner, you can tell cause it does wayyy too much damage. I think they were even nerfed in later rev’s IIRC.

Double Shoryu’s with Ken were probably an oversight. Then again why they changed his SAIII from 2 stocks in 2i to 3 in 3s is beyond me.


#3

I’m not sure if they realized you could combo into Makoto’s SAII it has so much damage potential. Without a doubt, they didn’t know about her 100% stun combos.


#4

Yun was definetely meant to be one of the best in the game. After all his personal quote is a response to someone calling him ‘cheap’.


#5

if they intended ryu to be good, they wouldn’t have taken out the upper-body invincibility for his sa1, and extra stocks for sa2 and sa3. so now he can’t do ex fireball xx level 3 denjin for free.

also i think they beefed up ken so much because of newbies crying ‘this game sucks!’ after using him and losing in the first two versions.


#6

obviously they didn´t see GJ potential, but i really think that they intentionally made chun a poke whore. she can even win without using sa


#7

I kinda figured Alex would have been the top since he is the “main” char of the game. Does ridiculous damage, great speed, and a hyper bomb that really decimates life bars.

But original poster sounds abou right–beefing up all the original cast from SF2…

I do think that they have lotteries or something at Capcom when they design characters, though. I think they decide who gets all the good stuff and who is going to get screwed. Look at 12. For someone who in the storyline is supposed to be a very skilled fighter creature, he sure does suck a lot–no damage, very little in combos, and doesnt take damage well; Chun on the other hand, gets great pokes, better supers (even her SA1 is better than anything 12 has), and an air throw. She doesnt have a whole lot of combos, but the fact that her super hit confirms are so good, you dont really need them. Think I m crazy? Look at MvC2… The obvious favorites were Mags, Storm, Sentinel, and Cammy. Those guys have far more tools than the rest. Then you look at Iron Man, Juggs, and Rogue–all of them have 1 super–even Servbot has more than one!!! I mean, even War Machine in MvC had 2 supers—they couldnt give one to Iron Man???


#8

I think the game is hella balanced to a point. I mean, if you look at the mid and low tier, everyone is pretty comparable. There are still bad matchups, but it’s about as well balanced as it can be.

All of the top and high mid have stuff that Capcom clearly missed. 100% stun, overpowered supers, too many too easy links, Aegis, Dudley’s insane Juggles, Chun’s kara throw, Ken’s kara DP’s. If you took away these things the game would be extremely well balanced, tiers truly wouldn’t matter.

Not that I care either way, but just my 2 cents.


#9

I think Elena has some pretty good concepts behind her, it seems like Capcom made her to be a giant mix up game, with a huge range overhead command, long range sweep, an overhead special, a low-hitting special, a ranged move, an uppercut with decent priority… her SA II does good damage too, and her SA I is 3-stock short bar; conceptually she’s a great character, but maybe Capcom decided to nerf her down by making her hit box pretty big and having little connectors…

Same with Akuma, he has a LOT of mix-up potential and rushdown… and Capcom decided to nerf his defense; I think they still intended for him to be top-tier though, in the sense that “akuma-pros would be so pro they wouldn’t get hit much anyway” sort of thing…

Capcom gave Dudley a lot of juggling ability, so they probably meant him to be top-tier too… they probably meant for him to be really agile too, with all his dashing in and out moves, and he has a lot of connectors with his supers.

I think they sort of messed up Oro… he’s supposed to be one of the strongest storyline-wise, but I dont’ see what they really gave him, besides an unblockable which probably wasn’t supposed to be in the game anyway. I suppose his SA III (I think it is? the juggling one) is pretty strong, but he’s kind of slow and doesn’t have a lot of good specials. Or maybe I’m biased because I’ve only seen a couple of good Oro players before.

And regarding Chun, Yun and Ken, who knows what they were thinking… as everyone else said, they probably didn’t mean for genei to be so powerful, or rather, the bar to be so short. They probably had issues balancing out how fast it runs out with the length of the bar, that’s my guess. For Chun, her pokes are too fast and over-prioritized I think, they either probably meant for her to be a poker, in which they made SA II too strong, or made her pokes too strong and intended for ehr ot depend on SA II. Ken I think just has too much block stun (and thus frame advantage), and his kara-shoryuken is overpowered as well, which they probably never anticipated for karas. Other than that, he’d be a lot more balanced.

Oh, and as for Makoto, they probably didn’t realize her 100% stun because they probably didn’t intend for karas. I dont’ think they overlooked SA II comboing though, that would be a huge oversight.


#10

Its funny how the new 5 characters in this game (Chun, Makoto, Remy, 12, Q) they either end up being top tiers, or very bottom tier. Maybe they were planning to make a 4th installment to this game, but just got lazy.


#11

nope … 3rd installment and that’s it . no more making new version of sf3 .


#12

I read somewhere that they were planning a 4th installment to end the series, and then SF4, but plans were scrapped. I think it was in that Udon book or something, so who knows how accurate that is.


#13

Chun-li has always been a poke whore.
Her specials have never been anything to write home about.


#14

They tweaked Akuma a bit too much!! Nah…but i guess they needed to, otherwise he;d be a god.


#15

I think they did him right, even with retardedly bad stamina and stun, he’s still pretty high up on the tier list.

I just recently got into Akuma. That motherfucker is fun to use. Play him for like an hour or two then switch to Ryu or Ken, they feel raped in comparison.


#16

the juggles are intentional, 3s is the only 2d fighting game with a 3d juggle system.


#17

For once, I agree with this guy.


#18

and?

he said alot more obvious stuff in the past. you just caught on?


#19

How does 3s juggle system relate to 3d? :confused:


#20

juggle limit set by a point system, fall arc properties, specific collision detection…

hmmmm also they have launchers from standing or crouching normals unlike previous street fighter games (they had launchers from normals before but not to the scale and specifics that the sf3 series has).

good examples of launchers are yun/yang cl st mk, urien cr hp, remy cr hp, ibuki cl hk, oro cl mp.

they also have special moves that are effective because they set up juggles like dudley ex machine gun blow, remy ex cold blue kick, makoto srk…

i say 3d juggle system because i coined the phrase from the local yang in cf, the way he explained it to me was odd at first, but then i looked at tekken and saw what was happening there with the juggles and what 3s did with it so i pieced it together.

i mean, sf always had juggle combos but not as many as they have in sf3. because they have more juggles possible in this game they set up specific laws that apply for every character but have different point values on normals, specials and supers when it comes to juggling. so the opponent’s body has to be in a specific way in the air and you have to have X amount of juggle points left inorder to continue a combo (6 point limit being the max but gets reseted by a super).

i hope i didnt get any info wrong with my understanding but the same type of limit set on 3d juggles kinda gets mimicked and controlled in 3s allowing the freedom to have creative juggles but a decent system where not everything will keep an opponent in the air like tekken paul jabs into phoenix smasher.

if i were to believe which juggles actually were more “realistic” i would have to say 3s gets that prize over the moon gravity that tekken 5 etc exists in, but that’s my opinion. i would think tekken being a 3d game would atleast get the whole idea of landing damage from a “real” 3d enviromental scope instead of relying on extensive juggle combos that go on as long as the opponent is still in range for the next hit no matter what it is to land serious damage.

hahahaha… sorry i’m bashing tekken 5 lol i wish namco had some balls and kept going with what they were leading to with tekken 4 cus that actually had a better ground game in that one (but suffered i guess because of the tier structure and lack of character appearances).