Character Differences between SF2 ST and HF


#1

Ok, I’ve played Super Turbo for quite a bit of time. Unfortunately, my local arcade only have Sf2 HF in an Ultracade cabby. I’ve played it enought to realize that most if not all ST strategies don’t work in HF. Several of the characters are insanely different (blanka for one). I was wondering, can anyone help me out on telling me characters playstyles in relation to Super Turbo?? I’m going to list off the differences off the top of my head

Ryu
-no red fireball (does this effect his FB-DP trap)
-Air hurricane goes straight (is this useful?)
-HK goes thru FBs

Ken
-No Flaming DP
-Air Hurricane goes straight

Honda
-No ochio

Chun Li
-Palm FB (Half circle?)
-No upkick
-SBK goes thru FBs

Blanka
-Up ball hits up and down
-Replaces Beast Roll and UpKick ball

(how do you use this up ball? It seems awesome… for crossups and stuff… but I still couldn’t get around computer FB patterns with it)

Zangief
-No green hand
-No Siberian Supex
-Kick Lariat invincible (can’t sweep it)

Guile
-2hit flashkick
-No new style moves

Dhalsim
???

Balrog (boxer)
-Invincible TAP (how is this used?)
-No Headbutt
-No low rush (is high rush hit on crouchers then?)

Vega (claw)
-No Punch wall dive.
-No Flipkick
-No jumping Punches

How does he play different?

Sagat
-Slower FBs than O.Sagat
-No Jumping Punches

Bison (psycho)
-No devils reverse
???

Thanks for your help. any tips would be greatly appreciated. Just general strategies for characters would be nice… since it’s hard to see this game in action any more.

oh yeah. One last question?

what about it made everyone like it so much??


#2

I like HF because Zangief rocks. Sweep this, mwahahahaha!


#3

Rog’s TAP is only invincible in his midsection (I think?) and only during the first couple of charge seconds… charge too long, and it’s not invincible. Anyhow, it alone lets Rog DESTROY shotos. no FBs allowed… you can just react with TAP.


#4

Off the top of my head:

Ryu:

  • no Red FB
  • more invincible hurricane kick
  • air HK hovers different

Honda:

  • butt slam does not knock down on the way up
  • jump RH can do massive damage

Blanka:

-vertical ball hits on the way down

  • easier timing on link combos

Guile:

  • RH flash kick hits twice but does not knock down on 1 hit

Ken:

  • air HK hovers different
  • has eggbeater HK

Chun:

  • HCF + P fireball
  • SBK hits on the way up
  • higher flying SBK and midair SBK

Gief:

  • slightly more range on SPD
  • Kick lariat invincible to low kicks
  • more throws and holds
  • no air throws

Dhalsim:

  • less damage
  • limbs, head and foot drills slower

Rog:

  • punch dash hits high and low
  • VERY fast recovery from kick and punch dashes
  • 1-2 second charged TAP invulnerable to FBs and low hits

Vega:

  • claw dive does not knock down

Sagat:

  • more recovery on tiger shots

Bison:

  • slightly worse recovery on blocked scissors
  • different priorities on normals (crouch fierce cannot hit Ryu’s HK)

#5

I like HF because Blanka was cool. Why’d they take away the HF vertical ball I’ll never know.

Oh yeah, also everyone can compete in this game, and without the need for gimmicks like “easy comeback” supers and things like that.


#6

Other mentionable differences:

Ryu:

-no rush punch or overhead

Honda:

-HHS doesn’t lunge forward on start up

Guile:

-missing the lunge kick
-missing hopping backwards sobat
-no cross up short

Ken:

  • cross up with rounhouse (not forward)
    -no knee bash throw
    -can 2in1 air hk from ANY button (same with Ryu)
    -jab and strong dp knock down in one hit
    -dps combo ‘better’ (ex: jump kick, st fiercexxdp works on every character)
    -missing lunging rh and wierd st forward kick
    -can buffer st forward (it’s a knee like ryu has in ST)
    -ground hk doesn’t hit from the knee for the first hit

Chun:

-can’t buffer strongs or forwards

Dhalsim:

  • no variable drill angles
  • no limb control
  • missing certain normals he has in ST

Rog:

  • all punches look the same (no low rh animation, looks the same as low jab pretty much)
  • no headbutt

All characters got a ton of new normals from HF to ST. Also, almost all characters got a bunch of new bufferable moves (minus Ken and Ryu, they actually got a smaller number of bufferable moves). If you really want to know them all, I could probably tell you.

Fuck I’m oldschool.

-wes


#7

Slightly. Haha.

Here is what I know:

E.Honda:

  • if you want to talk differences, ST Honda has a radically different normal set from HF Honda:
  • The chop - HF far fierce - is now ST close fierce, which sucks.
  • HF low fierce is ST far fierce (and it doesn’t knock down). That would be cool if you could dodge FBs with it, but you can’t, so bleh.
  • ST low fierce is a new double hit palmslap that is okay for what it is, but pretty much not all that special.
  • You have to press down + Forward kick in the air to get his splash in ST (it was just his Forward kick in HF). On the plus side, his normal air forward in ST is an insanely good crossup, way better than the splash for crossup purposes (splash still has the better priority).
  • His kicks are all different. The close Short and Forward kicks from HF are now his normal crouching kicks in ST. What purpose this serves, I don’t know.
  • His HF CROUCHING kicks (the raised foot thingies) are now his close kicks. While this could suck if he didn’t have low strong, he does so it’s not that important.
  • Most important of all, his varied speed/range standing kick trips are all gone. His ST far stand roundhouse is now the double-hit knee that was close roundhouse in HF. You can still get the roundhouse trip in ST, by pressing back+roundhouse. But it’s the slowest one of all, so this is pretty crap.
  • This is all meaningless of course if you choose Old Honda, which if you didn’t figure it out already, is exactly why I play with Old Honda. Old Honda retains the down+forward splash, though.
  • On other things, someone mentioned the “random SPD damage” jump roundhouse glitch which was removed in ST.
  • Also, another cool thing about ST Honda’s splash besides it knocking down on the way up, is that short splash has some invincibility at the beginning. I’m not sure if HF Honda had that, but I don’t think so.
  • HF moving handslaps vs. ST set-distance handslaps. I’m torn as to which one is better. Set-distance lets you move forward while charging (as well as being a helluva poke), but you can play more mindgames with the moving slaps (as well as do the infamous grabby into slappy move). Again, negated by picking Old Honda.
  • No buttslam. Personally, if it wasn’t for the fact that you can store the buttslam, I wouldn’t think much of this. But the fact is, stored ochio is just too fucking good, as was hammered into me at EVO.
  • Jump up fierce. ST Honda can move during his jump straight up fierce, which is very useful for not getting pwned for 100% free vs. shotos. He still gets owned, but this helps. And Old Honda does NOT have it. :frowning:

Chun-Li
I know admittedly less about Chun in ST than HF, but here’s what I noticed.

  • First and foremost, her priority overall seemed to have gotten nerfed. Jump short/forward was GOD in HF, only losing to invincible moves and Blanka jump strong outright. Walkunder close fierce (one of my primary tactics in HF) flat out does not work in ST. Fiddlesticks.
  • HF close forward+Forward/Roundhouse kick = ST DF+Forward/Roundhouse. This is fucking annoying as hell when you want to poke with low forward, as getting flipkick on accident usually means death. Personally, I don’t see why they changed this at all, and this is a reason why I pick Old Chun sometimes. Stand strong is a better poke with New Chun, anyway.
  • Palmfart fireball is charge and it’s a lot quicker. Despite all that, I prefer HF fireball simply because you can throw one after scoring a knockdown with pokes. All in all, though, I guess it really doesn’t matter that much. ST fireball is better.
  • SBK is crap. It’s a charge back move, which IS better, but doesn’t hit on the way up or down. I’m not even sure if it has invincibility anymore. And annoying SBK runaway from HF is gone because of the new air HK arcs (AND cuz of the new charge back motion - no bouncing off the wall while retaining SBK charge). I think Old Chun has the better, down-charge, hit-on-the-way-up SBK.
  • Flash Kick. Good wake-up, which she kinda needs.
  • New close roundhouse (the infamous high kick). She probably has other new normals too, but I can’t remember them.
  • She can 2-in-1 off of most of her lights and mediums in ST, possibly close fierce too, but I don’t remember. This is good in combination with fast kikoken. I think only Chun’s jabs were 2-in-1-able in HF, and it didn’t matter because she couldn’t combo anything.
  • Lightning Legs do a fuckload of damage in ST (Ohnuki in EVO2002 anyone?)

That’s in depth to the two characters I play. I can kinda brush on the others, but I’m tired. Need sleep.


#8

so how much worse is scissor recovery for HF bison then?

Haven’t played HF for ages, and I’ll admit, I know less about Bison than say, Blanka. In HF anyway.

On a side note, ST Chun’s SBK seems to be invincible on the way up still. I was watching some USA/JPN footage and it looked like they were using it on wakeup to evade neckbreakers and things like that.

Another Honda thing: I’ve heard was it jab(?) headbutt that could pass through fireballs in HF. Is this true? And if so, did he retain or lose it in ST?


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#9

Yes, the sbk is invincible upon start-up but since it doesn’t knock down, it’s a dangerous move.

I’m pretty sure Honda indeed could pass thru some fbs with his headbutt. I’m not sure which button to use (ask Dasrik) and I think the fb may have to be a fast one in order for this to work.

One more thing to note, chun can 2in1 one off of her close standing fierce and has been able to do so since ww. Really the only combo she can do with this is standing fiercexxlightning leg. She could do dope combos like cross up fierce, standing strong, standing feircexxlighting leg and had the near impossible Guile-esque combo of: meaty fb, jumping fierce, standing fiercexxlighting leg.

Just thought I’d share that-

-wes


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#10

I can’t believe this was forgotten (unless you’re comparing Old versions in ST to their HF form):

Shoto DPs are completely invincible. (unlike the retarded A3 versions where a sweep can stuff the jab version)

For the record, i think the straight arc Air HKs were beast, at least for Ryu. no more reversal SPDs if you hit the jump in too early

Didn’t Evil Ryu have that version of the Air HK in CVS1?


#11

Bad enough so you can sometimes hit Bison with a jab into combo AFTER it hits.

This has always been possible, however the fireball must be fast enough to pass completely through Honda before his invulnerable state ends, and the only fireballs I think are fast enough to do so on a near consistent basis are Ryu’s fierce FB and Sagat’s fierce tiger shot. It’s a gamble I wouldn’t really take, because if you time it wrong you get knocked down, which makes the shoto fight suck a lot worse than it does already.

And yeah, it’s the jab. Strong/fierce have no invulnerable frames.


#12

I mainly play with Vega. I’m not very good, but I do know of some differences with the guy.

First off, he does way better damage in ST. His damage in HF is pretty pathetic. He also seems faster to me in HF than in ST, although I’m not sure if that’s really the case.

His normals are different too:

  • In HF, every jumping attack he has is a kick.
  • In ST, jumping vertical punches all have his claw spread out in front of him quite a ways.
  • When jumping forward or backward, his fierce has his claw right in front of/below him. The fierce has great priority.
  • His jumping kicks are all the same in ST, all just regular looking kicks. Jumping roundhouse has probably his best air-to-ground priority.
  • In HF, standing strong is a quick anti-air, but in ST it’s a lunge forward with the clw. The HF anti-air is a pretty weak move but can trade hits usually. That’s bad for Vega, since he does such crappy damage.
  • In HF his crouching fierce is a crouching claw lunge but in ST it’s a long-distance anti-air. The HF fierce is pretty quick considering its range and that it’s a fierce. The ST anti-air is great as long as you make sure that you’re hitting an enemy that’s far away. It’s also good for snuffing fireballs and sonic booms.
  • His HF standing kicks are all pretty much the same as the standing punches. The only difference, as I recall, is that the standing strong is anti-air and the standing forward is not.

His specials are different too.

  • The flying barcelona attack (the claw dive off the wall thing) is uncontrollable in HF. In ST, you can hold him back once he jumps or you can make him fly farther forward than normal, or you can even hold him back at first and then make him move forward in the air quickly. In HF he just flies toward and above the opponent and then drops down on him. The HF version is very predictable and not a great move to use. The HF version also has less priority. That, when combined with the lack of maneuverability and the invincibility of dragon punches means that the HF version is pretty sucky. In ST the claw dive can trade damage with and even outprioritize moves like the tiger uppercut, flash kick, upward beast roll, and even dragon punch.
  • The izuna drop, which is the throw you can use at the end of the flying barcelona attack, is better in ST too, mainly because of the maneuverability. For example, you can move real quickly through the air to the other side of the opponent, then slow to a halt and just grab them. In HF that’s not possible.
  • HF Vega doesn’t have his flipkick. Which sucks.
  • The claw roll seems to combo better in HF. For example, in ST the fierce claw roll lets the opponent block between some of the hits if you don’t have him cornered. I don’t think this happens in HF. I haven’t played HF in a while, I might be wrong here.

#13

I think you mean HF, because ST has different looking jump kicks (IIRC, jump roundhouse has his back facing the screen in ST).

Standing roundhouse also does considerably more damage than standing fierce for some reason.


#14

Ah yes. Good call.


#15

Well, personally, I’ve always found it hard to swallow than an uppercut that could should hit, at it’s lowest point, a person’s midsection could hit a sweep.


#16

Guile in HF plays quite similar to ST, with some differences (corrected from above posts):

  • He still has the knee thrust in HF
  • In HF he can to a cross up forward
  • In HF his standing fierce whiffs on crouching blocking opponents
  • In HF he has an extremely fast sonic boom recovery
  • In HF, always use the short flash kick, which only hits once and always knocks down
  • In HF, you can combo jump fierce, standing fierce, sonic boom, backfist even when the opponent is not in the corner
  • In HF Guile can follow the sonic boom much closer, which makes jumping in after the sonic boom much easier
  • In HF, Guile can redizzy zangief not in the corner, and he has about 20 corner redizzies which work for all characters
  • Easiest corner redizzy: opponent dizzy in corner, use knee thrust to get as close as possible as opponent gets up. Sonic boom, low jab, low jab, high jab, sonic boom, delayed back fist or close standing fierce

Ken has the hurricane glitch / redizzy in this version. Stand close to opponent, jump back jab (timing critical!), two-in-one into roundhouse air hurricane (opponent will be stuck to Ken as he spins backwards), then land, and jam on low short. Opponent redizzied. Repeat. Vega and Balrog can also redizzy in this version.

Eric Fattah
BC, Canada


#17

Bison HF->ST changes:

  • Scissors Kick slightly better recovery and now knocks down.

  • Psycho Crusher doesn’t travel as far. Fierce version I think only does 3 hits blocked maximum instead of HF’s potential 4.

  • Head Stomp and follow up punch do block damage.

  • Gained the Devil Reverse (charge d, u + p,p; is it me, or is that move REALLY hard to control in ST?).

  • Gained new normals, including s.short, s.fierce (uppercut), close s.roundhouse, c.s.forward, j.fierce, j.strong (which juggles with itself up to 3 times), and j.short.

  • Standing forward and s.roundhouse have increased range - back to CE levels I believe.

  • Bison’s jumping attacks cause slightly more hit stun, so it’s a little easier to combo off of them.

Vega:

  • Vega’s damage and priority were increased.

  • Got a boatload of new normals. I’m not going to list them all.

  • Wall dive is much more controllable. You could control it in HF, but far less so. The Flying swipe didn’t knock down in HF either.

  • Gained the anti-flip kick.

  • Gained the Wall spear.

  • Gained the quick backflip (KKK).

  • Gained the ability to recover his claw when he lost it.

  • Lost his old redizzy combo (c.jab, fierce Roll, c.fierce). I think the combo itself still works in ST, but you need to do c.strong instead of c.fierce, and it doesn’t redizzy.

Also, Vega isn’t any faster or slower in ST. Rather, there was a system-wide increase in the speed of projectiles, for reasons I’m still not aware of. Vega could almost always jump out of Ryu/Ken’s jab Fb, fierce FB trap - he could reaction jump the fierce FB, but this cannot be done in ST. The fierce FB hits even Vega (fastest jumper) on the way up. You have to block them both now before you can get out.


#18

Quick question, slightly on-topic: O. Sagat is the Sagat you ‘unlock’ by tapping jab and waggling the stick, right? He’s the one with more powerful uppercuts, faster Tiger shots, etc?


#19

This doesn’t work in arcade HF. The HK did not have trapping ability in the arcade HF (or Jpn CE for that matter). US Arcade CE and the SNES/Genesis ports of HF are the only games where the HK can trap like that.


#20

wrong. . eggbeater works in hf.

also, unless i’m mistaken, balrog doesn’t have a practical redizzy, it was removed after CE.

Ken has character specific redizzies (sim, rog, gief)
(low forward, rh hurricane, upper)

guile has redizzies involving double sonic booms

vega… i thought his redizzy was low jab, fp.roll, low STRONG… i don’t think low fierce is possible… could be wrong tho.