Character-specific Match-ups and Supers (or SA1 vs. SA2, if you want)

twelve

#1

I pretty much play the same way against every character, and I always use X.N.D.L., but I’m starting to wonder if X.F.L.A.T. might be better against some characters, since it appears to have more potential to bail you out of dangerous shit (for instance, if someone air parries your aerial attack, you can cancel into SA2 and get the hell out of there while possibly scoring some decent damage), and it does do pretty good damage against grounded opponents. I also know that X.C.O.P.Y. is pretty good against Twelve and Akuma, but I never use it.

So… discuss.


#2

SA2 is nice , does nice damage but it’s kinda hard to get all the hits … With much pratice , standing mk -> instant SA2 can work … I like SA2 , but SA1 give you more EX bars .
X.C.O.P.Y is always funny to play … Even more in a mirror match …


#3

XFlat does crap against people in the air T.T; I play better with XNDL or XCopy if I want to mess around =)


#4

Yeah, I can do that (and sometimes I do), but I’m more interested in SA2’s ability to bail your ass out of bad situations. I usually end up saving it until someone air parries one of my aerial attacks and/or throws a super at me (for instance, SA2 destroys Stun-Gun Headbutt and Denjin Hadouken).


#5

Which air normal can you cancel? Or is it the “air parry reset” thing?

XCOPY vs 12? waaaaahhh???


#6

I believe it’s an “air parry reset” thing.

Yeah, XCOPY vs. Twelve is good. It basically allows you to retain most of your game (no taunts or EX) with a stronger version of Twelve (even your throws are stronger), while XNDL is hard to land on a mostly airborne opponent and XFLAT isn’t that good for anti-air. Plus, although you’re more vulnerable while you revert back, what’s Twelve going to do to you?


#7

I dunno, XFLAT is all fancy and stuff, but sometimes I think XCOPY would be a better, i mean, its basically 30 seconds as the opponent with increased life and damage isnt it? As long as you watch the meter and make the most of it, I think you could do something with it, you even still have some decent EX meter if you want.

I mean if a team of Hugo and Q can come 3rd at SBO3 I’m not ruling anything out.


#8

Against shotos, Dudley, Remy, etc, I’ll air dash and use early FK to bait SRKs/Flash kicks/AA. Against other characters (Chun-Li, Makoto, Yun, Yang…), I’ll air dash all over their ass. It really depends on what kind of AA they have.

I never, ever, ever use X.F.L.A.T. . It might get you out of air parry situations but you’re wasting your super for crappy damage (air-to-air X.F.L.A.T. is a waste) and Twelve needs as many EX dives as possible - hence X.N.D.L… I can quite happily go entire matches without using the super if it means I can put pressure on with EX dives and that’s only possible with X.N.D.L… I know X.F.L.A.T. is the only way Twelve can land big damage easily but you can still jump HK > close.MK xxx X.N.D.L. if you want damage with that super.

As for X.C.O.P.Y… meh. You’re sacrificing any EX moves to get the chance to morph, which means Twelve is at a severe disadvantage until he gets the super. I don’t know about X.C.O.P.Y. against Akuma but can’t Akuma land a Raging Demon on your ass when you morph back? Or worse, down, down, down + PPP? X.C.O.P.Y. versus Twelve is interesting though because like Septimus says, what can Twelve do when you morph back? Hmm…

And X.F.L.A.T. is NOT going to save you from Denjin. If the other person knows what he’s doing, you won’t even have a chance to jump and activate that super.


#9

Oh yeah, just found something out the other day, Twelve was fighting Urien, Urien jumped, Twelve went for SA2, and got full damage, the interesting thing was, Urien had just started his jump, and was just off the ground when the super went off. So I’m guessing that full damage XFLAT works on the ground, and near to the ground. Twelve does this in the Thongboy vid against dudley.


#10

Tweleve SA3 vs Gouki
Tweleve SA1 vs Everyone else.

Simple as that.


#11

Twelve’s only acceptable super art is XNDL. No question. XFLAT is probally the worst super art int he game, even worse than XCOPY. At least in XCOPY Twelve has regular defense and good moves. XFLAT is terrible. There is only one way to combo it: close MK. Close MK can be blocked high and low and can be parried high and low. Not only that but I play Twelve alot and can only land the XFLAT combo abut 1/15 times :rolleyes: . If done against an enemy in the air it does garbage. Not only that but in XFLAT resets its only a one hit parry that is very easy to time and see coming. FLAT can only be used for the purpose of XFLAT combos/resets as well. It supplies no room for EX moves which Twelve needs for EX DRAs and Ex AXEs but more importently: EX NDLs. The only way I can see a serious Twelve player using XFLAT is if they can do: Jump in/Air dash in: Cross up Roundhouse, (land), Foward(close), then that into XFLAT. If you can pull that off consistenly then hell go for XFLAT. I’d like to bring XCOPY to your attention as well, as I said before it isn’t as bad as XFLAT. Considering you can combo XCOPY off of: Couching Short, AXE(Jab) :r: XCOPY. Then you are close to them and Twelve doesn’t lose 5/6 of his health off of Chun’s Crouching MK :r: Super Art II . One other thing: Did you know you can combo XNDL off of crouching LK? Just do the motion for XNDL :qcf: :qcf: then halfway thru the second motion do a crocuhing LK and finish the combo. If you do it correctly it should look like this : :qcf: :d::lk: :df::r: :lp: . Its just hard to hit conferm but it can be done. Keep at it you Twelve feinds. :tup: hope I could help.

PS: Interesting fact about XCOPY. If used against Q and you get taunts in, Twelve keeps the defense bonus when he reverts!


#12

plus u cant reset to super on X.C.O.P.Y. Twelve.

And it is possible to do 2 cr. LK’s to SA1 but still rather hard.


#13

Everything for Twelve is hard:rolleyes: haha. Capcom gave him all the tools, a sick invisability taunt, fucking flying and what seems like the best normal moves. But…they all have thier flaws, or something that contridicts his good attributes. Scuh as the invisablity, they let him walk under fireballs and fly as to not give away postition BUT it has like a 100 frame start up :lame: . Then his flying, or air dashing. Very sick consept intil you look at the fact that you can do EX moves when you fly off a wall and you can’t parry while flying. His moves all are good…but you can’t super cancel off of anything on the ground except for Lk and crouch LK. Twelve seems like a sick character on paper but… just can’t fallow thru.


#14

Surely it’s better to do crouching LK, qcb + LP, XNDL?


#15

MK, XNDL does more damage but MK can be parried high/low


#16

On chars with normal defense the crouching LK, qcb + P does i think 38 depending on disatance. Cuz we all know XNDL does more damage the closer you are. But without the qcb it does a bit more like mid 40s i think… I’ll have to check it when I have time. :tup:


#17

Also everybody knows that you can combo Ex. NDL into XNDL from nearly any distance? It does garbage from far away but its worth it to finish off and opponent.


#18

Oh sorry Mert, I’m not talking about damage really but hit confirming. Hit confirming off a single LK is pretty tough and I’d rather not take that chance with Twelve because 1) the recovery on XNDL will see you get owned pretty badly and 2) it’s a huge waste of meter, which Twelve can’t afford to waste. I never think in terms of damage with Twelve but in terms of how safe certain moves are :tup:


#19

This should be a sticky. Just that line. :tup:


#20

I totally agree with you. When you play as Twelve you need to take as few risks as possible. Play it safe.