Character Specific Option Selects and situational tactics

gouken

#1

A lot of this can be applied to other characters, get in the lab and experiment because it’s the only way to understand how it all works. Shotos not posted because SungHoon has already covered the best ways to use dive kick on them.

Option Select against Fei Long’s wake up

Land a hard knockdown from a sweep or a neutral throw to setup your safe dive kicks.

Medium Hyakki Shuu > Hyakki Goujin ~ cr.Fierce > cr.Fierce xx Jab Gouhadouken

If Fei does nothing, dive kick hits and you get the fireball combo. If you have the meter, you can FADC the fireball and land another sweep setup.

If Fei blocks, you blockstring out and get some chip and pushback, with you being at frame advantage.

If Fei does any version of Shienkyaku, it gets blocked and can be punished with anything you want.

If Fei backdashes, he gets caught with the first part of the cr.fierce which nets the full damage and stun, not the weak damage from a fully extended Hulkamania. The fireball also comes out and hits meaty at about sweep range.

If Fei does short, forward or EX Rekkakyaku, he gets hit by a full damage cr.fierce which then cancels and has to block a meaty fireball on landing. Even if he Roundhouse/EX Rekkakyakus or Rekkashinkens out to avoid the chip, you recover to either jump away or punish.

If Fei does roundhouse Rekkakyaku, the cr.fierce whiffs and Fei sails over Gouken’s head to switch sides. He lands at pointblank and Gouken recovers to max punish or sweep again.

SUPER Changes: Denjin Hadouken can be used as the OS instead of the cr.fierce, although it will not beat EX Rekkakyaku. Be aware that Gekirinken has 0 startup, so technically no safe jumping on Fei Long if he’s using this.

Punishing Chun Li instant overhead roundhouse on hit

Basically, if Chun Li goes for this at all, Gouken can win the round off of one setup.

On hit:

Walk up > cr.roundhouse

Simple as that. Because she did a jump attack, she can’t trip guard. Hits at max range, and works from anywhere on the screen.

From here, Chun Li can be constantly safe dive kick option selected to death with:

Medium Hyakki-Shuu > Hyakki Goujin ~ cr.roundhouse

EX Bird Kick gets blocked on landing because of it’s 6 frame startup, you can either land a combo of your choice or sweep again. Back dash will make the dive kick whiff, but then get swept because you option selected with sweep so you can do it over and over again. EX Hazan Shu whiffs, switches sides and sets up a max punish with Gouken. All she can do is block, and you have ridiculous frame advantage from the blocked dive kick because of how low it connects. You get to apply your mix up however you want from here.

Once you’ve got your opponent scared of the regular dive kick setup, start using Heavy Hyakki Shuu > Hyakki Goujin for a crossup dive kick. This can also be option selected with cr.roundhouse if they try to dash out.

All-purpose Option Select for Abel’s Wakeup

The problem with Abel is once he has meter, he can’t be safe-jumped (in the usual sense) because of EX Tornado Throw. This option select covers all of Abel’s wakeup options as well as avoiding EX Tornado Throw.

Set it up with a neutral throw or sweep, then immeditately…

Dash > pause > Roundhouse Hyakki Shu > Delayed Hyakki Goujin ~ Jab Senkugoshoha/Denjin Hadouken

It’s hard to explain the timings on this without a video, but I’ll do my best so that you can find something relative to compare the input timing to.

The Dash is immediate following the throw. You then hold the second -> input (as if you were executing a run in CvS2) till you see Gouken hit his neutral stance again for roughly half a second. Use the -> input as a buffer for the demon flip. You don’t want to hit the dive kick at the apex of the flip, hit the button as you start to see him actually descending. The dive kick (if done right) will hit meaty somewhere around Abel’s chest.

This timing allows for the dive kick to hit meaty, deep and completely avoid EX Tornado Throw. It will stuff it cleanly, setting up a combo. His backdash also gets stuffed, resetting him into sweep range. He can’t jump away because it’s meaty. He can’t reversal Super it either, the dive kicks active hitbox outlasts the strike invincibility on Jab Super and stuffs it clean.

So his only way out is EX Roll.

With Jab Senkugoshoha buffered into the dive kick and because of the strength of demon flip used, the Palm autocorrects to chase the roll. Abel CAN block it, but it’s a fairly low risk form of pressure, and you can’t zone Abel in this match so you have to go into the lion’s den. There’s no choice. You can switch the Senkugoshoha out for a heavy demon flip, but it won’t hit meaty. My suggestion for this would be to alternate between them to strengthen your mixup.

There was an interesting thing that came up when finding the optimum timing for this. If the dive kick is about a frame earlier than above (so that the kick hits his waist), the EX Tornado Throw COMPLETELY whiffs right in front of Gouken, setting up a pointblank max punish. The only thing here is that a backdash avoids the dive kick and the OS’d Palm can be blocked still. This can be OS’d with Tatsumaki Gourasen or cr.roundhouse, but the former is very very risky and doesn’t cover everything.

Without meter though, dive kick Abel with impunity because he can’t get away from it.

**SUPER Changes: ** With Breathless, this dive kick option select is unsafe. However, Denjin Hadouken can used instead of the Palm and serves the same purpose. If Abel EX Rolls out and tries to counter punish your Ultra with Breathless, the fireball eats him up and causes Counter Hit damage and stun.

Stopping Bison from doing anything on wakeup

The same principle as all of Gouken’s dive kick option selects, but this one is really effective in that Gouken is safe whatever happens.

Throw/sweep setup, then…

Dash > Forward Hyakki Shu > Hyakki Goujin ~ Strong Senkugoshoha > cr.fierce xx Jab Gouhadouken

So his get outs are Teleport, EX Scissors, EX Crusher and EX Stomp/Devil’s Reverse. The timing for the safe jump can be however you want really, but for the purposes of the option select it’s best to delay the dive kick a shade more than for Chun Li’s since the startup on Bison’s reversals are pretty slow and you don’t want your OS Palm to be stuffed by his slow starting reversals. This means that whatever happens, you’ll either block EX Scissors and Crusher, avoid Devil’s Reverse and forward Teleport completely, or punish back Teleport for free.

This will more than likely push them to the corner, be it from the blockstring or Palm. Even if he reversals out, his responses are all either putting him in the corner or in a position that can be punished again and again.

SUPER Changes: Denjin Hadoken can be used for an option select also, however you do need to be aware it will only punish his ground reversals. It’s a judgment call on the Gouken players behalf, but generally I’d use this if they had no meter.

Sagat Wakeup

He’s got a 5 frame uppercut, so the same timing as Fei Long applies. The good thing though is that you can use sweep instead of cr.fierce as Sagat only has the uppercut, and his backdash is sweep punishable.

Usual throw/sweep setup…

Dash > Forward Hyakki Shu > Hyakki Goujin ~ cr.Roundhouse/Jab Senkugoshoha > cr.fierce xx Jab Gouhadouken

It’s probably the most basic of the option selects. It’s definitely Gouken’s only way of applying close up pressure against Sagat that he has no real answer for. The blockstring pushes Sagat back out to a comfortable range if he blocks, and sets up a long range game again for Gouken.

Dealing with reversal EX Messiah Kick

Like a lot of characters, Gouken can time a meaty jab on Rufus’ wakeup and recover in time to block reversal EX Messiah Kick. This too can be option selected for when your opponent knows that you can time it meaty and they try to avoid it.

From a knockdown…

Walkup > cr.Jab ~ Jab Senkugoshoha/cr.roundhouse

You can do either in this scenario. Admittedly, you don’t want to playing an up-close game with Rufus, but for those times when you land that knockdown and they’re itching to get some damage in, it’s a safe way to bait and punish if he does actually reversal and also to punish backdash.

How to Option Select Viper and Rose to death

Land a hard knockdown from a sweep or a neutral throw to setup your safe dive kicks.

Hyakki Shuu > Hyakki Goujin ~ cr.Roundhouse/Denjin Hadouken > cr.Fierce xx Jab Gouhadouken

So, I’ll start with Viper, but the timing for both is EXACTLY the same.

VIPER

From a neutral throw, dash immediately and buffer a Medium Hyakki Shuu. Hit kick at the height of Viper would be if standing. This isn’t the safest dive kick Gouken can do, but it actually has to be a little ‘unsafe’ for the rest of the stuff to work.

If she HP TK’s out, you block and get a full punish for free.

If she EX Seismo’s, the sweep beats the invulnerability. Just do another dive kick immediately and you’ve got her in a loop.

If she EX Burning Kick’s out, the sweep whiffs and the burn kick whiffs. This sets up another sweep or a full punish.

If she blocks, you blockstring out safely.

If she backdashes, she gets swept.

If she Focus backdashes, she gets tagged with a cr.Fierce, with best case scenario being them resetting onto a fireball and gives you frame advantage. This makes Instant Focus backdashes unsafe.

If she does Super or Ultra, you block and get a full punish.

If she does anything else, she eats a fireball combo.

SUPER Changes: Denjin Hadouken as an OS will beat her grounded reversals and her EX Burn Kick. Beats backdash also.

ROSE

From a neutral throw, dash immediately and buffer a Medium Hyakki Shuu. Hit kick at the height of Rose would be if standing.

If she EX Soul Throw’s out, it whiffs and you recover to get a full punish.

If she EX Spiral’s out, the sweep beats the invulnerability frames.

If she does Super, you block with her at frame advantage. She’s got no meter, fuck her up!

If she does Ultra, it gets blocked and you get a free punish. Dash, backthrow then Ultra is possible.

If she blocks, you blockstring out safely.

If she backdashes, she gets swept.

If she Focus backdashes, she gets tagged with a cr.Fierce, with best case scenario being them resetting onto a fireball and gives you frame advantage.

If she does anything else, she eats a fireball combo.

These can also be done from a sweep. Just do a light Hyakku Shuu AS SOON AS YOU’RE ABLE TO and everything will work.

SUPER Changes: Denjin Hadouken as an OS will beat her grounded reversals. Be aware that Soul Satelite makes it harder to put Rose into this loop now also.

Reset mixup that works on all characters, following a BnB.

So…

EX Senkugoshoha xx FADC > jump down + Forward dive kick

Interesting property of the normal dive kick I found is that although it’s a medium strength attack, it seems to reset them as if it was a light attack. You land with a very slight frame advantage at pointblank on the side you started and gives them very little time to react. You can meaty them with anything (attack or throw), you can backdash most reversals (those without a massive amount of travel), you can EX Demon Flip any reversal into potential fat combo and what you can also do is instant air Tatsu forwards as you land and it will beat any reversal uppercut clean. This is all on top of the usual SF mindgames you encounter in these pseudo 50/50 scenarios, except this one is actually in Gouken’s favour for once.

Punishing Yoga Sniper on hit from 3/4 Screen

(As a preventitive measure, high AND low Kongoushin will parry Dhalsim’s jumpback fierce. From max range, you might as well do it, because there isn’t much else to worry about).

Right…

This actually cannot be punished by Gouken midscreen on hit, which is a bit shit. A way to apply pressure here though is to option select Dhalsim with EX Demon Flip > Throw ~ Strong Gouhadouken after being hit. If Dhalsim backdashes, jumps or teleports backwards when he lands, he gets tagged and can be juggled with cr.roundhouse in some circumstances. If he does nothing or hits a button, he gets thrown.

If Dhalsim’s horizontal movement during the jump is stopped in any way by the corner, Gouken gets a free dash > Ultra everytime on hit.

Punishing Akuma st.roundhouse

Akuma’s st.roundhouse in this fight functions just as it does in the Abel match for Akuma, it shuts Gouken down and sets up a straight 50/50. It’s more useful against Gouken because he can’t really threaten with any reversal, so prevention is the key.

From about Gouken’s st.forward range is the ideal range for Akuma to go for his st.roundhouse. From this range, Gouken can punish with cr.short xx Roundhouse Tatsumaki Gourasen. The idea is you find the range with st.forward pokes which is a pretty dominant poke regardless against Akuma, and then switch to cr.short once you know the Akuma is in the range to do what he wants to do. You buffer the Tatsu motion in with the cr.short. If the cr.short whiffs, which it should if he doesn’t do st.roundhouse, the Tatsu doesn’t come out.

Does about 225 damage (more on CH), and works because the cr.short hitbox forces a whiffed first hit from Akuma’s st.roundhouse. It can still hit you if it’s not spaced right mind, it’s not as juicy as Fei-Long’s or Ryu’s cr.forward.

This is definitely hit-confirmable into FADC > Ultra for decisive, match winning damage.

Hit-confirmable crossup divekick mixup/setup.

A way of hit confirming into guaranteed damage, or turning it into a mixup on block following a safe divekick after a knockdown.

Starts with cl.strong.

Then…

On hit:

cl.strong > cr.forward xx Jab Senkugoshoha
It’s a one frame link into a cancel. The cl.strong gives about a second for you to confirm into the combo. Does more damage than cr.fierce xx Jab Palm, can be plinked and is hit-confirmable.

cl.strong > cr.forward xx Kinjite Shoryuken
If you have the meter and comfortable in your link proficiency, it’s worth going for.

On block:

cl.strong > cr.jab > st.short > cr.short
Standard blockstring for safety and meter building. True blockstring.

cl.strong > cr.forward xx MK Demon Flip - Dive Kick
On most characters, this turns into a crossup. Exceptions would be tall hitbox characters.

cl.strong > cr.forward xx LK Demon Flip - Throw/Sweep/Dive Kick
Useful if you’ve already conditioned the opponent to expect the crossup.

cl.strong > Kara Throw (st.roundhouse~throw)
The cl.strong sets up the max range for the Kara Throw. Can be switched out for Kara Backthrow.

Another setup in the same vein would be cl.strong xx LK Demon Flip - Dive Kick. This also is a crossup and on some characters can hit front or back with a very slight input delay. Should be easy enough to work into the mixup already outlined.

Hope this helps.


Matchup in AE: Gouken vs Fei Long
Gouken Safe Jumps
Gouken Frustration Thread, Go ahead let it out!
OS list?
#2

Thanks for reposting bro.


#3

Helps a lot. Don’t remember seeing this up at all before now. Glad its up now.


#4

As soon as I get the FB FADC stuff mastered I’m on to learning this. It all sounds crazy useful.


#5

thanks for reposting this incredibly helpful information.

i have a terribly bad noob question here, so bear with me. i understand the idea of what an option select is, and i’ve seen a video example before of ryu using a j.mk ~ dp option select.

in this case though, do you throw out the dive kick really late right before it turns into a sweep? basically, how do you option select your dive kick into something (anything) else?


#6

You don’t OS the divekick, you OS what comes after the divekick. At least, that’s how I understand it.


#7

[media=youtube]aHHoGHcgK9k[/media]

Edit: Combine this info with the knowledge from the Safe Jump thread and you will be on to something.


#8

great thread! one thing: “xx FADC” is a bit redundant. you don’t need “xx” if “FADC” is listed.


#9

Denjin Setups

It’s worth knowing that unlike Ryu’s Denjin in 3S, you cannot activate the Denjin Hadouken if one of Gouken’s fireballs is on screen already. That said, the same strategies can still be employed. They’re just slightly different.

Example:

Third Strike - Meaty Hadouken xx Denjin Hadouken on someone’s wakeup.
SSFIV - Meaty Gouhadouken xx FADC > Denjin Hadouken on someone’s wakeup.

And in terms of escaping the Denjin when thrown to hit meaty, the opponent NEEDS full body invincibility or projectile invincibility that activates on the first frame.

The premise is to put your opponent in one or more of these states:

[LIST]
[]At about half screen
[
]In blockstun
[*]In an immoveable state (hard knockdown)
[/LIST]

These are the three main things to be looking for when it comes to setting up this sort of projectile.

So…

Denjin Hadouken Setup 01 - Ryu

Combo > EX Senkugoshoha > dash > cr.roundhouse > Denjin Hadouken (6 hit charge)

This is the max charge for this setup. Will do 300 stun on block, just add that to what you did before the setup (combo, blank EX Palm etc) and you basically just need one heavy more hit to stun, possibly two depending on the character. For the purpose of this Ryu specific setup, you’ll need just one more.

Can only be punished by Shinkuu Hadouken and Metsu Hadouken. Only way to escape stun and chip damage is EX Shoryuken, which WILL whiff and is then fully punishable as Gouken has recovered.

Denjin Hadouken Setup 02

Combo > EX Senkugoshoha xx FADC > nj.fierce > Denjin Hadouken (5 Hit charge)

They land on the fireball. 250 stun on block. Even less punishable by your opponent than the above setup. They WILL need full body invincibility and be able to cover two thirds of the screen to do so.

More to be added but given the points that I’ve said to keep in mind, get creative and figure out setups that work for you.


#10

This sounds really useful. I think this type of stuff is going to make for a scary game. Anyone is seriously risking stunn after any BnB by a Gouken with Denjin.


#11

I have a couple of these setups used in real matches in My Channel if people need to see how it works. More will be added tomorrow.


#12

Before you read the setups, please take into account that this is a setup and NOT a combo, meaning that it is not guaranteed and can be got out of with specific actions based on who you are fighting.

Denjin Setup 03

J.Fierce > cr.Fierce xx Jab Gouhadouken xx FADC > cr.Fierce xx Jab Gouhadouken xx FADC > Kara Throw > Denjin Hadouken (6 or 7 Hit Charge)

Oki doke.

As you can gather, this is a reset. The frame advantage from the last fireball allows you to do a meaty kara throw. If they press a button , they get grabbed. Fire the Denjin to hit meaty or you can delay it slightly so that it still catches jump aways and reversals without a large invincible frame duration.

Does more than 1100 stun in total. It’s a guaranteed ‘next hit stun’ with any of Gouken’s moves if they block the Denjin, and a stun if they reversal out unsafely because Gouken recovers in time to punish. Suggestion for after the block is to just throw a Jab Gouhadouken. They’ll have to jump it, or use a special to get through it in order for the stun counter to count down. Gouken can follow up easily because of the fireball recovery.

You can set this up from any cr.Fierce xx fireball combo really and still net a high amount of stun.

Now, you might be asking “why not do kara backthrow so that the stun is guaranteed?”

The startup on kara backthrow can be jabbed.

Guaranteed stun combo on Akuma

J.Fierce > cr.Fierce xx Jab Gouhadouken xx FADC > cr.Fierce xx EX Senkugoshoha > Denjin Hadouken (5 Hit Charge)

Works from anywhere on the screen. Not a walk the park when it comes to the timing, but doable consistently with practice.

Pro Tip: Double-Tap KKK.


#13

can I get an invite to your channel?


#14

Neville, even though it’s not character specific, we should put somewhere that the basic throw tech option select for gouken should be d/b+lp+lk+mk so you get mk(4 frames) instead of lk(5 frames).

Thanks again Raunwynn.


#15

This is absolutely necessary against characters like cammy


#16

I think the first I’d read someone else post on this forum about it was sometime last year, by Killakelly. You’ve saved me the effort anyway. Added.

Add me up if you like.


#17

Safe Dive Kick Option Select vs. 3rd Strike Characters

All of these use the same setups from a hard knockdown (sweep, throw, Denjin Hadouken) with some very slight modifications based on the character.

Makoto

*Medium Hyakki Shuu > Hyakki Goujin ~ cr.Roundhouse > cr.Fierce xx Jab Gouhadouken
*
The timing on this is pretty much the same as Abel. You have to time the dive kick to hit meaty at about the boob region. She can’t do anything to avoid taking some damage if it’s timed right. EX Oroshi gets swept for another hard knockdown. EX Karakusa absorbs the dive kick, but whiffs the grab. This is the ideal scenario for the Gouken player, as this means the dive kick doesn’t count as part of the combo and only starting at the fireball two-in-one, meaning damage scaling does not affect it as much.

Both Ultras can be blocked.

Backdash gets swept.

Focus Backdash gets caught by the cr.Fierce and resets Makoto to land on the fireball.

Ibuki

Medium Hyakki Shuu > Hyakki Goujin ~ cr.Roundhouse > cr.Fierce xx Jab Gouhadouken

Pretty much the same as Fei Long and Sagat (5f reversal timing), but with a couple of advantages on top. You want to be hitting Ibuki’s shins ideally.

If the dive kick is positioned to hit deep inside Ibuki’s hitbox, EX Kazegiri will whiff and Gouken will land behind Ibuki, everytime. This doesn’t have to be a crossup dive kick, just deep or ambiguous enough so that you would land pretty close if it hit normally.

All of Ibuki’s other reversals get beaten out by the dive kick, and Backdash/Focus Backdash do the same to Ibuki as it does to Makoto.

Hashinsho reversal can be blocked if the dive kick is timed as described. If your dive kick is 4f reversal safe, she can reversal Yoroitoshi - so that’s why it’s preferable to do the slightly less safe 5f reversal timing.

Dudley

*Light/Medium Hyakki Shuu > Hyakki Goujin ~ cr.Roundhouse > cr.Fierce xx Jab Gouhadouken
*
Dudlley’s slightly different in that instead of landing deep, it is preferable to hit the dive kick at max range. The main reason for this is that his EX Jet Upper, even if you’ve mistimed the dive kick for this 4f reversal by a frame, can still be blocked due to Gouken’s hitbox moving out of hittable range during his landing animation. This also goes for Rocket Uppercut. Although this does need 4f reversal timing, it can still be safe from this 3f reversal because of Gouken’s hitbox shrinking upon landing.

Again, the option select does the same to Dudley as it does to Makoto and Ibuki, and none of his other reversals (barring Cross Counter) beat out the dive kick.

Special mention goes to Dudley’s Thunderbolt. All versions avoid the dive kick and option select inputs, but leave him free to punish.

Alpha and ST characters to come.


Gouken Match-ups and Character Specifics
Gouken Match-ups and Character Specifics
Gouken Match-ups and Character Specifics
#18

Option Select Denjin Hadouken against wakeup

Hard knockdown, then…

Safe Hyakki Shuu > Hyakki Goujin ~ Denjin Hadouken > cr.fierce xx Gouhadouken

Works on everyone except Chun Li, Adon and El Fuerte.

Motion has to be :qcf::qcf::db::3k: in order for it to OS and block in time, unless you’re faster than myself with your butter churning. Punishes backdash. Punishes focus backdash. Punishes all backwards teleports for free. Punishes all grounded invincible reversals with less than 13 frames of invulnerability.

I have a feeling this would punish Abel’s EX Roll if you substitute the Senkugoshoha with Ultra as part of the OS detailed further up the page, but not tested it yet.


#19

Good Stuff!


#20

That’s what I’m talking about. Back dashers eat ultra + possible followup since it’s a ground hit.