Who do you think will benefit the most and least from Ultra Combo Double? I think grapplers are a given in the former category. I don’t think shotos (maybe with the exception of Dan) will use UCD. Decapre seems like she was designed purely with this mechanic in mind with both her ultras, so count her in, too. Chun-Li might enjoy a bit of both of her ultras as well. What do you think the other characters’ ultra selection will be?
Dudley. Combo ability with U2, anti-fireball stuff with U1.
Inversely, E.Honda and Balrog have absolutely no reason to ever pick U2 or W-Ultra. Worst U2s in the series.
I did a nice long list of this in the Rebalance topic, but it basically comes down to "do you have a combo ultra and either a utility or anti-fireball ultra? You may get some mileage out of Wultra!"
Balrog and Honda, assuming that their U2s have some use in Ultra, could possible use them, it’s just that 0+1 frame cmd grabs suck ass.
Something I was thinking about, if Ryu might actually get some use out of it. The basic idea is that Wultra U2 with animation still does more damage than normal U1, so if most of your Ultras are going to come from juggle states (EX FB, EX SRK, Punishes) then Wultra could be worthwhile as you end up getting more damage than you would with just U1 while not losing out on the damage by too much where U1 would do more than U2 (anti-air or traded LP SRKs). If it’s a 50-50 split you’re better off with just running U1, but if you think you’ll combo into it more often it’s worthwhile to consider U2 or Wultra.
I can see juri being very scary with both ultras
I strongly feel W Ultra is not worth it for graplers beside Hakan.
The " He can U1 if I block and U2 if I jump ! " scenario is just a fantasy and a quick way to explain the idea to people for marketing, but I just don’t feel like people would gamble that kind of thing much.
Characters I see using it well are characters like Juri, Rose, Dhalsim, Akuma, Hakan
Maybe Honda and Balrog depending on how their U2 is tweaked in term of start up.
But that’s really about it.
Makoto would probably have used it if she wasn’t in the 60% category.
Ex red focus helps honda to combo it aswell as balrog, it is a lot more useful for honda i feel though. It is far from useless even if it takes 3 bars. I saw a good ammount of hondas using it already.
Honda’s U1 does more damage than U2, so if you don’t think you’d pick U2 unless you know you’d get a chance to use it outside of EXRF.
Even if that is the case with the extended range aswell as 1 frame startup (even if after the freeze) it now has more options than u1, what can you do with u1? Punish fireballs? Cool that helps in some matchups but overall u2 now has more utility, it’s not all about the damage besides i doubt its that much of a difference.
To be back on the topic, why the hell also balrog couldnt use double ultra? Unless it’s a fireball matchup you more need u1 for the corner carry rather than damage, it gives him more options besides as far as I know the stun is not reduced on u2 with double ultra.
Rose is cool too I think in some matchups. Also counter ultras MIGHT be a bit more useful as you dont have to drop your good ultra for it (especialy in cammy’s case, although still very situational I think).
Since I play gen I can mention him too. even if scaled. 4 damn ultras guys.
Thankfully mank got hit by the 60% dmg W Ultra train
i could see it being sick for adon vs fireball chars. Full screen fireball punish + FADC ultra for a damage boost
I haven’t seen a single Zangief picking Double Ultra.
Once I thought about it, the only matchups where I see myself picking it are vs Rufus and Honda.
I’m still hoping for Capcom to say “to hell with different scaling!” and reverts all UCDs to 75 % for uniformity’s sake before the final USF4 version.
i think it’s so clever that the ultra combo double is called W
get it, double U
i think rufus and dhalsim benefit nicely from 2 ultras
I think that’s a japan thing. Just like
W is just Japanese shorthand for 2x of something. Remember in FFVII when you got W-Item materia and it let you use two items in one turn? Same deal.
Balrog isn’t going to use W Ultra because Dirty Bull will probably be the worst ultra combo in the game with only 250 damage and 399 stun for U2 (only 188ish for W). Unless you can cancel from it from something like a Turn Punch on block or something just as easy U1 will be default as it always has been.
I fell less strongly but the same way for Dudley and U2. Rolling Thunder isn’t that great of an anti-fireball ultra and only sees some select use in other match-ups that make it completely outclass Corkscrew Cross as a punish option. The only match-up I see W being a good option for Dudley is vs. Ken where your equally likely to want U2 for blocked DPs or U1 for fireballs.
Here’s my list from the other topic, on who can get any real effect out of Wultra
Abel: Combo/Anti-Fireball and a Raging Demon, so yeah, I can see it
Adon: Anti-Fireball and Combo ultra, so we might see a lot more Wultra than plain U1
Akuma: Raging Demon and Combo/Teleport Protection. Useful
Balrog: Combo and 1f Grab. If U2 is any good in Ultra we might see this. If it’s still garbage then nope
Blanka: I don’t really know how he uses his U2 enough to say
Cammy: If you absolutely positively want U2, buuuuuuut nope
Chun: Maybe? But probably not.
C.Viper: Don’t really know enough about U2 to comment on it
Dan: No, both are combo ultras
DeeJay: An anti-fireball/massive chip and a combo ultra, but I’m not really sure how useful it would be
Dhalsim: A utility and an anti-jump Ultra; I can see Wultra happening
Dudley: It’s not that great of an anti-fireball ultra, so unless you really want it against fireballs I see him sticking to just one or the other
E.Honda: Depends if his U2 is garbage or not. EXRF lets him combo into either, but if you can’t find a use for U2 outside of that then there’s no point
El Fuerte: No clue here
Evil Ryu: They both fulfill pretty much the same purpose, so I doubt it
Fei Long: See Cammy
Gen: Probably not, due to Super -> Ultra being so good
Gouken: They’re both combo ultras, so I doubt it; maybe if you’d normally use U1 you’d consider using Wultra, as U1 is more limited in scope, but 66% stun sucks
Guile: New U1 looks too good to give up, and U2 does no damage under Wultra. Then again, if you can’t combo into U1 and it doesn’t track he may just stick with U2
Guy: Same as the rest on the 1f Command Grabs; if he needs it in the matchup or they make it not be terrible then it’s a distinct possibility, although his combos into U1 will do even less damage
Hakan: Somewhat doubtful, mainly because of the whole “could just command grab” thing that the grapplers have going on. Then again, maybe if you need that 1f punish it’ll be useful
Ibuki: See the rest of the 1f Command Grab characters
Juri: A utility and a damage ultra; could very well see Wultra play
Ken: A combo and anti-fireball Ultra; with the increase in non-animation U1 damage, it may be a viable choice to use Wultra with the U2 buff, otherwise he’s in the same boat as Dudley
Makoto: A actual reversal/combo ultra and an escape/anti-fireball; I finally understand why she’s a 60% Wultra character. A solid choice
M.Bison: Probably never; if you really want U2, you’ll use U2, as Wultra U1 does less than U2 normally, and you can’t combo into U1 anywhere you couldn’t do U2
Oni: Not familiar enough with him; does U1 have different options than U2 in terms of combos and punishes?
Rose: A utility/mixup and a punishment ultra for bad jumps or Blanka balls; could see use in certain matchups
Rufus: U1 is too bloody good; I don’t see Wultra being used
Ryu: You don’t get U2 in any situations that you couldn’t U1, but it does still do 7 more damage on full animation under Wultra than U1 normally. So maybe but probably not, as your normal SRK FADC, trade SRK, anti-air LP SRK, and EX Hadoken FADC U1s will do no damage
Sagat: Wultra U1 does less than plain U2 and offers no new situations to combo into that I can think of; pass
Sakura: No point, they’re both combo ultras
Seth: An anti-fireball and a combo ultra: could see Wultra use
T.Hawk: Grappler issue of just landing an SPD instead of a Wultra U1
Yang: No clue
Yun: No clue
Zangief: Grappler issue: can get similar damage to Wultra U1 with an SPD or APD and gain better positioning I believe.
Rose could potentially get a real boost in some match-ups with Ultra Combo Double.
Now that she has got an overall boost on her Normals and Specials, the scaling from choosing UCD wouldn’t hurt her much. Hypothetically (still doing some number crunching), considering how the scaling works, by the time you have both Super and Ultra stocked and ready, the opponent should be under 50% of Life (unless you’re agains a VERY trigger happy Shoto and on point with LP Reflects and Focuses), but that’s not the point…
Note: I’m Talking about FULL Ultra Combo Meter and not counting Health Scaling for simplicity sake.
Yeah, sure, Illusion Spark would cause vary little damage if comboed into, but a Raw U1 to punish something on reaction would be pretty nifty, even with the 60% Reduction Axe. because it would be 291/292 (depend if they rounded it down or up) raw damage. It would not be a tool to be used for combos, but just some sort of defensive option, more than offensive.
And Soul Satellite already does crap damage, when comboed (in a combo like cr. hp xx spiral xx super xx U2, Soul Satellite does 141 Damage Total, already a 60% damage reduction just from combo scaling, give or take a few digits) and does little to no damage when used as a defensive tool. Sure, Raw is 240 and you can do combos after, but let’s just stick with known numbers.
So, 60% UCD Axe considered, a Full U2 would do around 140-145 Damage. Putting the same 60% reduction from combo Scaling into play, we would be in a situation where the comboed U2 would do 84-87 (probably middle ground, so 85?) damage. Now, we have a +10 Damage on Spiral (and another +10 if we use cr. mp as the starter). We would end up with a difference of… (numbers may be a bit off, it’s not even 8 AM in the morning and i haven’t slept much) less than 50 damage, from 581 to 535.
And for the new characters… Elena could potentially benefit a lot from it and be better than she was in 3rd Strike. While initially i was against having Healing as an Ultra, doing some research and theory discussion proved me wrong. She could be a beast.
I already mentioned this on the gen forums and others agreed with me. It’s good enough to pick especialy in fireball matchups, for the love of God you have 4 ultras, and every one of them will have utility, yes super into ultra will deal less damage but scaling will make it barely noticable since most of the time it’s poke xx hands xx super.
For me it is absolutely MUST in fireball matchups, with nerfed jump ins and focus what should i do? Eatch chip all day? Maybe only against guile I would not pick since you need to guess to punish his fireball (and he can air grab out of air ultra so no air to airs as well.)