Charting character stats, need help with M.Bison

m-bison

#1

Just looking for input on this in general, and for each character specifically.

As stated I’d like to keep discussion for each character in the separate threads I am making in their respective sub forums, and input on the idea in general in the above thread.

Also as stated, despite discussion in this thread being open to anyone it would help me separate the wheat from the chaff if each forum could appoint someone who knows what the hell they are talking about to give me the numbers to plug into my spread sheet.

My garbage numbers for M.Bison:

U1
Endurance - 2.5
Reversal ---- 2
AA ------------ 4
Zoning ------- 2
Rush --------- 4
Mix up -------- 3
Dmg pot ----- 3
Viability ------- 2.5

U2
Endurance - 2.5
Reversal ---- 2
AA ------------ 4
Zoning ------- 2
Rush --------- 4
Mix up -------- 3
Dmg pot ----- 3
Viability ------- 2.5

Other than the Endurance these are little more than place holder numbers. Input greatly appreciated.

The end result of all of this will be a spreadsheet with pull down menus to compare up to three characters like so:

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/2461/adonmak.jpg

Uploaded with ImageShack.us


Spider graph "tier list"
#2

AA 4?..


#3

My garbage numbers for M.Bison:

U1
Endurance - 2.5
Reversal ---- 2
AA ------------ 4
Zoning ------- 2
Rush --------- 4
Mix up -------- 3
Dmg pot ----- 3
Viability ------- 2.5

U2
Endurance - 2.5
Reversal ---- 2
AA ------------ 4
Zoning ------- 2
Rush --------- 4
Mix up -------- 3
Dmg pot ----- 3
Viability ------- 2.5

Other than the Endurance these are little more than place holder numbers. Input greatly appreciated.


#4

anti-air could be 2
reversal could be 3 (simply because he has so many options)
if zoning includes footsies it could be 3
dmg potential is probably a 2 or a 2.5

i’ve only been playing bison for a week. so yeah, i’m possibly wrong about most of these suggestions.


#5

Let me rephrase that “Bison has an AA”?..


#6

is this at high or low level play? Because his reversal game is more limited than you think against smart players when they start OS you


#7

i think this is supposed to be high level play.


#8

I want data from skilled and knowledgeable players. And even though it is a tool mainly for beginning players the data should reflect the realities of high level play. The thought being they come in a scrub, look at the chart for the characters they find interesting and have some idea of what they are in for if they want to progress.


#9

ok well, I think this is really poorly thought out. For example I would rate Bison somewhat low on many of the areas but he is still an amazing character and the way I would rate him would not reflect this. There is more to a character than the factors you list like safeness/frame data, comeback factor, mobility, specials, utility, chip game, pokes, footsies, priority, corner pressure, shenanigans, MUs, lame out factor, time out ability, ect incidentally these are mostly things that Bison dominates at (no comeback factor…)

his damage output is below average, AA depends on character and spacing. He can AA with no problem if you are in correct distance (which you should be, a heavy fundamental character as Bison NEEDS good spacing) He has many ways to escape but at high levels you need to be blocking more, some of his reversals both get OS by the same sht so it’s an illusion he has so many at times, he can rush but you need to be smart about it- seems the more this metagame advances the more Bison needs to lame out/force approaches. His mix up isn’t so hot, so you need to be creative with shenanigans, mindgames and lots of baiting and punishing. He can zone pretty well and control space on ground with his nearly unrivaled pokes and footsies vs most characters

It’s hard to rate this character, he has many exceptions and honestly like I said there is more to what makes a character good than just the attributes you listed.


#10

i kind of agree, i think bison would look pretty bad in this chart, but overall he is considered a solid character. maybe then give the “viability” a 4 or 4.5 to show this? (assuming OP doesn’t want to change his variables)

i think most people would agree that bison has slightly below average AA options? so a 2.5?


#11

Your point being what? That a guide aimed at beginners compiled from information culled from advanced players should inundate the target audience with things that they don’t understand?

I’m open to changing the categories to whatever people think will be most useful, in fact, I made a thread devoted entirely to that. I linked to it at the very top of this thread.

The point is to reduce the information down to a digestible set of categories. How many new players pick up this game, find this site, and start posting bullshit threads about what character to use? How many pick up a character such as Bison, put in 6 months, a year, 3 years of playing him to realize that he isn’t what he appeared on the surface?

That is what I hope to address. To rate these characters in a way that the beginner can understand but from an advanced perspective. Know going into it that despite what you may think the general consensus is X.

If this endeavor proves fruitful I plan on making a much more in depth set of rankings but with the amount of shit I’m getting I’m not ready to make it any more complex than it already is.

Also, much of that can be squeezed into the categories as they sit now. You CAN’T give a rating without considering the things that you mention. How the fuck could you give a rating on zoning without considering normals and specials? Or frame data, which wold need considering for all of the categories?

Seriously, chill out. Peoples’ lives aren’t on the line.


#12

I didn’t realize I wasn’t being chill. Like… at all. I just gave you some really good insight concerning Bison and now you’re swearing at me and getting salty after I gave you my input. If anyone needs to chill, I’d say it’s you. I just told you my opinion, don’t ask if you can’t handle it.


#13

Op chill your crap. Someone pointed out the flaws in your plan. Defensive much? XD


#14

i think you’ll start seeing better and more thoughtful responses once you have more data compiled and graphs to show people, so people know you’re serious. A lot of people have talked about doing stuff like this in the past and it’s led to nothing but circle jerk discussion. i think you’re probably the first person serious enough to actually finish the project, so I’m trying to help with the characters i know anything about. others will be more willing to give info when they see something real enough to discuss. its hard for you though, because of things like categories being vague etc etc, but still, for the people who actually take the time to see what you are (and more importantly are NOT) trying to do, they see you’re on the right track, so don’t take all the criticism too personally.


#15

yeah I think this is cool idea but you should add a few more categories to your data, that’s all.


#16

im not going to lie, i actually have a spreadsheet with about 1/3 of the cast all ranked and numbered etc etc, i measure on 11 different categories though. i dont share it with people because i know i would just hear endless complaints about it, i use it for my own use, and it helps me understand why certain matchups are hard for me etc, and which characters i might want to try next. i’ve been working on it for a while…

also: on my chart, not everything is ranked 1-5, some variables only go from 1-3, or are just 0 or 2 (depending on how important i deemed those variables to be in the overall system of SF4)


#17

My apologies for the outburst but the amount of crap I’m getting is insane. People are actually PMing me shit.

As a professional that sends on average 40 emails a day I can say that “ok well, I think this is really poorly thought out” is a pretty bad way to begin a chunk of feedback. It sets the tone as criticism and somewhat patronizing.


#18

Welcome to the internet.


#19

Suck it up sir. This is a hobby done for FUN so obviously people aren’t going to be professional. Making SF charts is cool and all but people on SRK will call out dumb shit when required.


#20

you can’t estimate for something in EVERY SEC changing game play, you just can’t put number.

I think bison shin guard can add AA for +5 effect, do you agree? because honda did’t break his lag when it trade with him