Charting character stats, need help

Just looking for input on this in general, and for each character specifically.

As stated I’d like to keep discussion for each character in the separate threads I am making in their respective sub forums, and input on the idea in general in the above thread.

Also as stated, despite discussion in this thread being open to anyone it would help me separate the wheat from the chaff if each forum could appoint someone who knows what the hell they are talking about to give me the numbers to plug into my spread sheet.

My near useless data for Akuma:
Health Reversal/AA Zoning Rush Mix up Damage pot
Akuma 1 5 5 4 5 5

Cheers.

Akuma 1 5 4 4 4 3

Notes for each rating:

  • Poor health but not trash (Seth).
  • Solid reversal + escape
  • Decent zoning. Akuma has less than stellar normals and lacks active frames. Varied fireballs make up for this against some characters. Demon flip assists mobility and positioning.
  • Decent rush down, but nothing particularly overwhelming. Akuma’s offense invokes a lot of mix-ups, which ask us to flip a coin or make guesses - a liability for a character with poor health and stun. Seth’s rush down excels in all areas.
  • Good mix-ups but certainly not ‘holy shit’ tier. That’s reserved for Seth.
  • Average damage output. Akuma is by no means the powerful character he once was. He also deals less than average stun.

Right on. I got rid of SSF4 almost a year ago, just got AE recently. SO I’ve not faced many Akumas. Which is in itself a bit telling.

I need to weigh the stamina and stun values differently; simply adding the two is misleading.

I really don’t see how Akuma’s mixups are not 5 when Ryu’s mixups are considered 3.5. All the guy out of the ordinary is an air tatsu crossup, ambiguous jump, and a crossup along with some decent frame traps and DP fadc ultra. If I just list demon flip setups, that’s already more than enough to cover all the options that Ryu has.

Just to list a FEW of Akuma’s mixups. Demon Flip Throw, Palm, Divekick, Empty jump, crossup air fireball, crossup divekick, fake crossup divekick, air tatsu, ambiguous jumping lk, etc. I understand that only a few options can be used at once, (during a sweep, palm, ultra, etc.) but that still heavily outways the mixup potential of the majority of the characters in this game (exceptions being Seth, Viper, Yun, etc.)

Seth’s mixups are significantly stronger than Akuma’s.

And apparently Akuma’s mixups are only .5 below Ryus, a character that’s known for zoning and practically minimal mixups? You haven’t even elaborated a proper explanation to what I’ve said. Everyone tends to rank their main characters weaker in comparison. If Ryu’s mixup potential is 3, then Akuma’s should be minimum 4.5 (assuming that seth and viper are 5). There is no damn way Akuma only has a few more mixups than Ryu. That’s practically implying that he doesn’t even have a vortex.

I wouldn’t even give 3 to Ryu, that’s the problem if you ask me.

Well therein lies your problem. If Seth is a 5 and Akuma is a 4, I’d personally consider Ryu a 2. Perhaps Abel would be a three. Viper also. A one would perhaps be . . . Guile?

I wouldn’t consider Ryu a strong mix-up character at all, so for someone to tag him as having a potential of 3.5 is a bit of a stretch. I consider Seth the strongest mix-up character, hence he gets the 5. Akuma is a little beneath him in that respect, hence 4. I dunno about all this .5 business, I think that’s overcomplicating things because “mix-up potential” is a pretty broad definition no matter how you slice it.

Thing is, this is the Akuma forum. We were discussing Akuma.

Oni is probably a 3 maybe. Evil ryu is probably a 3 or a 2.5, ryu has to be 2 on a 5 scale. Seth has the best mixups in the game, viper has mixups but they aren’t really mixups, just the same shit over and over thats a 50/50 guess to you.

The numbers in the graph that was on the main thread are placeholders, nothing more. Mainly so I had something to post other than an empty grid, and also so I could test the graphing function.

I stated multiple times that the numbers were garbage, so no need to get caught up on numbers for other characters AS LISTED IN THAT GRAPH but definitely think globally when coming up with numbers for any given character. If you give Akuma a rating for mix ups that SHOULD get you thinking about Abel, Seth, Ibuki, etc. but comments asking why I have character X rated at Y are pointless, I’ve explained that numerous times.

As it sits now the only numbers that are close to finalized are Makoto’s, Dan’s, and half of Blanka. Gouken is getting there…

As it sits now Akuma is:

Ultra 1
Endurance - 0.5
Reversal ---- 5
AA ------------ 5
Zoning ------- 4
Rush -------- 4
Mix up ------- 4.5
Viability ------ 3.5

Ultra 2
Endurance - 0.5
Reversal ---- 5
AA ------------ 5
Zoning ------- 4
Rush -------- 4
Mix up ------- 4.5
Viability ------ 3.5

The ONLY numbers that I consider worthwhile are Endurance and Viability. Thoughts on the rest are most welcome.

I’ll give my 2 cents:

Reversal: I think there’s better characters than Akuma here.

Say you wanna reversal a DP to end opponents pressure, saw some patterns etc: Akuma’s DP lack range (Tokido himself said it would be a cool buff), the first hit of the 2 reversal of choice (MP DP, HP - LP DP is trash, EX DP is for desperation given Akuma’s health and how he can afford to take such risks) don’t lock the opponent. This means, you cannot punish/reversal opponent’s pressure from a certain range, like Ken or Seth would - you generally end up with the first hit connecting, and Akuma flying into the air only to get sodomized when he lands.

AA: I don’t think he’s on top here. Majority of DPs move with the first active frame covered by invincibility work without problems in this game, as long as you’re not fighting lag.

Gouki’s damage off antiair is low (to the point that if those 2-3 bars aren’t netting you the round, you don’t want to folloup with anything - while other characters follow directly into ultra for massive damage), and there’s characters with both great(er) damage off antiairs and better normals (Akuma lacks active frame or a favorable hitbox on several moves) to cover different jump-in approaches. It’s essentially the same for zoning (where you gave him 4).

With Ryu’s mixup changed to 2 or 1.5, I’d be fully happy to oblige now.