Christie's oki game (safe jumps, OS, cross-ups, shenanigans etc.)

christie

#1

I did a video a while ago showing a bunch of oki setups. This is a continuation of that labwork.

f/b = forward/back
d/u = down/up
e = empty
n = neutral
j = jump
p/k = punch/kick
CH = counter hit
CADC = charge attack dash cancel (qcf+P, ff/bb)
SFSC = stinger feint stance cancel (hcb+p xx qcf+k, u)
HC = Hit Confirm
HC1: cr.lp, s.mk xx something
HC2: cr.lp, cr.lp, s.mk xx something
HC3: s.mp, cr.lp, s.mk xx something
BnB1 = HC of choice xx LP Wheel Kicks, cr.lp, s.mk xx something
BnB2 = HC of choice xx LP Wheel Kicks, cr.lp, cr.hp xx something
Rasteila to Circle Kick = cr.lp, s.mk, d.hk, s.hk (high, special cancellable)
Rasteila Chibata = cr.lp, s.mk, d.hk, lk (2 hits overhead, special cancellable)
Rasteila to Heran Bago = cr.lp, s.mk, d.hk, mk, hk (low x2, last hit overhead wall bounce)
Thong Bikini to Low Kick 2 = cr.lp, s.mk, d.hk, mk, mk (low x3)

Brainstorm
(I removed the various safe jumps vs roll because those won’t be needed in 2013)

Spoiler

Forward Throw

  1. CADC, f.walk (ambiguous cross-up vs roll)
  2. b.walk, fj.mk (ambiguous cross-up vs roll)

Back Throw

  1. f.walk (ambigous cross-up vs roll)

Sweep
I found my setups after sweep too situational and spacing dependent. I don’t have much except of a few safe jumps that require you to sacrifice a lot of damage to setup so it’s not worth it. Especially considering you can achieve the same thing with a different and more damaging combo (see safe jump #1).

Safe Jumps

  1. any juggle > cr.lp, f.mk, Front Stinger, efj into: nj.hk (7f safe jump vs normal) or bj.mk (5f safe jump vs roll)
  2. cr.lp, s.mk xx LP Wheel Kicks, nj.hk (4f safe jump vs quickstand)
    -If they don’t quickstand: backdash, stand/crouch (ambiguous cross-up vs roll) or SFSC (reversal bait vs normal)
  3. post-launch* > s.mp, s.hp (2 hits) xx MP Wheel Kicks (1 hit), nj.hk (5f safe jump vs quickstand)
    -if they don’t quickstand: backdash, b.walk (ambiguous cross-up vs roll) or SFSC (reversal bait vs normal)
  4. HK Twister Sweep (3xLow) > fj.mk (4f safe jump vs normal)

*Note that post-launch setups can be partner specific. If your partner doesn’t launch high enough Christie might not be able to do them. And if your partner launches higher than average, then the timing might be different.

BnB Stinger followups

  1. BnB1 LP Stinger > CH store into: throw or (cs.mp), cr.lp, s.mk or Launcher (frame trap)
  2. BnB1 LP Stinger > backdash, LP/MP Stinger whiff or backdash, HP Stinger whiff (ambiguous cross-up vs roll)
  3. BnB1 HP Stinger > efj or MP Wheel Kicks whiff (roll reset) into: backdash or SFSC (reversal bait)
  4. BnB2 LP Stinger > raw tag
  5. BnB2 LP Stinger > CH store into: LP Wheel Kicks/Stinger/SFSC/fj.mk (cross-up)

Explanation: BnB2 does more damage but leaves in poor position to maintain pressure after CH store. Use BnB2 to raw tag and BnB1 to mixup/frame trap.

Needs more testing:
[S]-BnB1 LP Stinger > enj into: efj (vs some characters stays in front) or fj.any button (vs some characters crosses-up)[/S] too character specific/better setups from same knockdown
-BnB2 hand stand, perchflop kick > stance cancel, fj.mk (tricky cross-up beats some quickstand reversals and can’t auto-correct)

Shenanigans

  1. BnB1 (or any juggle) LP Wheel Kicks (1 hit) xx f.hk, (hk) (sucker overhead vs quickstand or reversal bait vs quickstand)
    -if they don’t quickstand: ?
  2. BnB1 to Heran Bago (sucker overhead vs quickstand)
    -if they don’t quickstand: dash, mixup or SFSC (reveral bait) or bj.mk/backdash (to catch roll)
  3. BnB1 Rasteila Chibata (sucker overhead vs quickstand) xx Twister Sweep mixup
    -if they don’t quickstand: ?
  4. BnB1 Rasteila to (delayed) Thong Bikini to Low Kick 2 (low mixup with Chibata, around +1 on block since it hits meaty)
    -if they don’t quickstand: ?
  5. BnB1 Rasteila (reversal bait vs quickstand) into cr.mk (low mixup with Chibata/Stinger)
    -if they don’t quickstand: ?
  6. BnB1 LK Twister sweep (1xLow,1xOH), s.lp whiff, fj.lk/mk (front) or fj.hk (behind) none of them hit (ambiguous cross-up vs normal)

EDIT: Here’s a playlist of Christie videos while I fix this mess: http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLXgUAwmci_AegVnkb8v_KRB6v8btKrUHV

Tricky Cross-Up
[Christie’s oki game (safe jumps, cross-ups, roll resets etc.)’]Sucker Overheads / Rasteila whiff mixups](‘Christie’s oki game (safe jumps, OS, cross-ups, shenanigans etc.))
[Christie’s oki game (safe jumps, cross-ups, roll resets etc.)’]Twister Sweep Vortex & main Safe Jump](‘Christie’s oki game (safe jumps, OS, cross-ups, shenanigans etc.))
[Christie’s oki game (safe jumps, cross-ups, roll resets etc.)’]Front Stinger Vortex & second best Safe Jump](‘Christie’s oki game (safe jumps, OS, cross-ups, shenanigans etc.))
[Christie’s oki game (safe jumps, cross-ups, roll resets etc.)’]Roll Reset Safe Jump](‘Christie’s oki game (safe jumps, OS, cross-ups, shenanigans etc.))
[Christie’s oki game (safe jumps, cross-ups, roll resets etc.)’]Option-Selects]('Christie’s oki game (safe jumps, OS, cross-ups, shenanigans etc.))

Hard Knockdown Safe Jumps in 2013

Feel free to contribute if you find more interesting setups.


#2

K so I’m working on quite a few vids to better illustrate the various ideas. I finally bought a capture card :slight_smile: Unfortunately, as you can see it’s not recognizing sound for whatever reason. So I’m sorry about that. Play your favorite song while watching these or pretend they are huge animated gifs or something. Whatever.

Sucker Overheads

This post will be about “Sucker Overheads” which are quick overheads aimed at catching quickstand or normal recovery. The idea is to use Christie’s various target combos on whiff as mixup tool.

f.hk, (hk) - This one will mostly work on players that are unfamiliar with Christie. Cons: can’t mixup with low unless you are near the corner.


Alright, so that gives you an idea of how I’m going to present each setup. First, if it’s a techable knockdown, I’ll show the quickstand scenarios, then I’ll show the scenarios for normal and tech roll respectively. And if it’s an untechable knockdown, well it’s gonna be the same thing except without quickstand. Now I’m not gonna put text on every single video because that takes a lot of time and I’m planning to do a lot of videos. Hopefully the videos without text are obvious enough that you understand what’s going on.

Rasteila whiff mixup 1 - A more advanced version of the same concept. Pros: mixup can be guaranteed no matter how the opponent wakes up. Cons: requires good execution. (whiffing rasteila twice to delayed thong bikini to low kick 2 isn’t as easy as it seems)

Rasteila whiff mixup 2 - Same idea but a little simpler. Pros: easy. Cons: limited mixup options if opponent doesn’t quickstand.

More to come.


#3

Twister Sweep Vortex & Main Safe Jump

HC1/HC2/HC3 xx HK Twister Sweep (3xLow), fj.lk/mk/hk

The idea here is to mixup the 4f safe jump (HC1 j.mk or HC2/HC3 j.hk) with empty jump low front or empty jump low behind (HC1 j.hk). edit: I just noticed I forgot to cover the Roll option. But it’s basically always the same thing: If you think they’re going to roll, either walk, CADC, jump or SFSC).

HC1 normal behavior:
Akuma, Asuka, Bob, Blanka, Bryan, Cammy, Christie, Chun Li, Cody, Dhalsim, Dudley, Elena, Guile, Guy, Hwoarang, Ibuki, Jin, Juri, Kazuya, Ken, Kuma, Lars, Law, M.Bison, Nina, Paul, Poison, Raven, Rolento, Rufus, Ryu, Sakura, Steve, Xiaoyu, Yoshimitsu.

On these characters, j.hk will cross-up whiff and j.mk will hit in front as a 4f safe jump if you use HC1. If you use HC2 or HC3, j.hk will hit in front as a 4f safe jump.

Oddities:
vs Heihachi, Lei Wulong and Lili, j.mk crosses-up as safe jump if you use HC1.
Heihachi, Kuma, Lei Wulon, Lili (use HC2)
Julia (use HC3)

Alisa is the only character in the game who is immune to this safe jump. (both j.hk and j.mk whiff completely on her even with HC3). So don’t use this setup on Alisa.

Other ways you can combo into Twister Sweep and their hit confirm equivalent:

s.hp xx HK Twister Sweep is the same as HC1. In some cases, it’s the same as HC2 or HC3 (basically depends on how close or far you are when you hit them with s.hp).

fs.mk, mk xx HK Twister Sweep is the same as HC2/HC3. (works on Julia but not Alisa).

Rasteila Chibata xx HK Twister Sweep is the same as HC1/HC2 (doesn’t work on Julia or Alisa). Whether j.hk hits or cross whiffs depends on whether the opponent was standing or crouching when he got hit by Twister Sweep. The hit confirm you use to go into Rasteila Chibata doesn’t matter. The number of hits Rasteila Chibata does doesn’t matter. Only the stand/crouch state of the opponent matters.

Standing = j.mk will hit front as a 4f safe jump. j.hk will go behind and whiff*.
Crouching = j.hk will hit front as a 4f safe jump.

*Against characters of average size (see HC1 normal behavior character list). You can’t cross-whiff against big characters obviously. But j.mk/hk will still hit them in front.

Oddities:
-Heihachi, Lei Wulon, Lili (j.mk hits as a cross-up safe jump but only if they are standing when they get hit by Rasteila Chibata xx HK Twister Sweep).
-Kuma (j.mk will only hit if Kuma is crouching when he gets hit by Rasteila Chibata xx HK Twister Sweep).
-Julia, Alisa (the only 2 characters in the game that you can’t hit with Rasteila Chibata xx HK Twister Sweep).


#4

Safe Jump Option-Selects

So now that we have our main safe jump, let’s look at various option-selects Christie can use:

Various OS to catch backdash and teleporters:

Christie’s cs.mk looks to be airborne for some frames but it’s unfortunately very throwable on its early frames. And Wheel Kicks aren’t quick enough to blow up command throws (though they can still beat crouch techs.)

OS Handstand to beat or trade vs Rolento’s EX pogo escape:

OS EX Handstand to beat Jack-X’s backdash and DP:

edit: OS raw Launcher works as well and beats Jack’s backdash and DP. :slight_smile:


#5

TS Front Stinger Vortex & second best Safe Jump

HC1/HC2/HC3 xx LP Wheel Kicks, cr.lp, s.mk xx LK Twister Sweep (1xLow,1xOH) > s.lp/s.lk whiff, fj.lk (front) or fj.hk (behind)
variation: > s.mp whiff, fj.mk/hk (5f safe jump)

Similar concept. Here the main mixup is empty jump low from front or behind. Where you land will depend on which button you press at the last second, which hit confirm you use, the timing, but also on the opponent’s character. j.lk and j.hk will never hit although you can delay the timing of s.lp or whiff s.mp instead to make j.mk/j.hk hit as a 5f safe jump. Once your opponent has recognized the setup, they will be tempted to roll. So if you think they will roll, simply walk back, jump back or SFSC after whiffing s.lp/s.mp.

Note: If the opponent reversals, it will auto-correct more often than not. So if you expect them to reversal, don’t mash buttons when you land. Except in a few cases, you’ll still be safe from auto-correct reversals even if you press a button in the air.

Use HC1 and whiff s.lp, fj.lk/mk/hk: (fj.lk/fj.mk stays front, fj.hk goes behind)
Akuma, Asuka, Bob, Blanka, Bryan, Cammy, Christie, Cody, Dhalsim, Dudley, Elena, Guile, Guy, Hwoarang,Jin, Juri, Kazuya, Ken, Lars, Law, M.Bison, Nina, Paul, Poison, Raven, Rolento, Rufus, Ryu, Sakura, Steve, Yoshimitsu.

Use HC1 and whiff s.mp, fj.hk (vs big characters, use the safe jump. You can use fj.hk because unlike with normal sized characters it won’t cross whiff.)
Abel, Balrog, King, Hugo, Jack-X, Marduk, Ogre, Sagat, Vega, Zangief.

Use HC1 and whiff s.lk, efj/fj.hk: (ejf stays front and fj.hk or late fj.lk goes behind.)
Balrog, Heihachi, Kuma, Lei Wulong, Lili.

Use HC2/HC3 and whiff s.lp, fj.lk/hk: (j.lk stays front, j.hk goes behind.)
Chun Li, Ibuki, Xiaoyu.

Use HC1 and whiff s.mp, fj.mk (5f cross-up safe jump)
Alisa, Julia.


#6

Edited first post and post #3 with more info.

I was testing the other ways Christie can combo into HK Twister Sweep in the hopes to find their hit confirm equivalent. In short:

-s.hp xx HK Twister Sweep == HC1.
-fs.mk,mk xx HK Twister Sweep == HC2/HC3.
-Rasteila Chibata xx HK Twister Sweep == HC1/HC2.

Check the second part of post #3 to better understand.


#7

Roll Reset Safe Jump

Any Juggle > (cr.lp), f.mk, F, efj, nj.hk

If you’ve watched some of my matches, you’ll know that this is my personal favorite setup. :slight_smile:

Pros: Resets the roll, easy to do, accessible off any juggle. Cons: 12 characters have meterless invincible reversals faster than 7 frames and 26 characters can either EX reversal or cross-cancel if they have 1 meter.


COLOR CODE: You can use the setup on these characters BUT…

Orange = Need to be wary of these guys when they have 1 meter (EX reversal/Cross-Cancel):
Alisa, Asuka, Balrog, Blanka, Bob, Christie, Chun Li, Cody, Dhalsim, Elena, Guy, Heihachi, Hugo, Ibuki, Kazuya, Kuma, Lei, Lili, Marduk, Paul, Poison , Rufus, Sakura, Steve, Yoshimitsu.

Yellow = Need to be wary of these guys when they have 2 meters (faster than 7f supers):
Dhalsim, Ibuki, Julia, Lei Wulong, Steve, Vega, Yoshimitsu.

Green-Yellow = Slow reversals but have escape cards like teles or counters (need an OS to take care of them):
Dhalsim, Jin, Juri, M.Bison, Raven, Rolento, Yoshimitsu.

Green = Powerless vs 4-7f safe jumps (slow reversals, can’t tele, can’t counter, can’t cross-cancel fast enough):
Bryan, Jack-X, Law, Nina, Ogre, Xiaoyu.

The setup should NOT be used on these characters:
-Akuma, Ken, Ryu (3f meterless DP)
-Cammy, Sagat (4f meterless DP)
-Dudley, Guile, Hwoarang, Zangief (5f meterless reversals)
-Lars (~6f meterless reversal)
-King, Lili* (0f meterless air counters)

*I used Lili in the vid because her EX DP is 7f start up but she also has that LP air counter which can effectively blow up your nj.hk so it’s kinda risky to use this on her. But then again, using air counter is even riskier for them! So use your own judgement (Just like with cross-cancels, you could try to bait their air counter with empty neutral jump then whiff punish them once you land).

My favorite thing about this setup is that it gives you control of screen positioning. For example: After a combo if you go for this setup and your opponent doesn’t want to give you some free pressure, then they have to roll themselves into the corner. But then you have position advantage and can apply corner pressure instead of in their face pressure. So I often see this as a win/win situation.


#8

Exploring how EX Batacuda xx switch can be used for okizeme to maintain pressure and mixup:

Pros: Grants enough time to charge a free EX move. Christie serves as a shield vs reversals. Can be timed so that Christie’s overhead hits meaty or whiffs.
Cons: Need 2 meters. Very gimmicky.

In the first half of the video, I reset the roll. Then if the opponent reversals or backdashes, Yoshimitsu gets a free punish. If the opponent blocks the overhead I get free pressure. In the second half of the video I don’t reset the roll, instead I just walk forward. If the opponent rolls towards Yoshi, I get a free throw (in 2013). If the opponent gets up normally he either blocks the overhead and that puts him in enough stun for a blockstring/tick throw/mixup or Christie’s overhead whiffs leaving the opponent vulnerable to Yoshimitsu’s overhead/low mixup.


#9

SInce Rastella has been nerfed, do you know if anything here doesn’t work anymore?


#10

All the setups still seem to work thankfully.

Here’s a vid going over Christie’s hard knockdown safe jumps in 2013 (re-optimized):


Am I missing any? If you guys know better setups, please share.

Aside from the Twister Sweep one, you can do these post-launch and post-bound as well.

For some reason, I’m having a hard time doing the HS Front Stinger and the TS Front Stinger ones. It’s possible that they changed the frame data of front stinger, or that the negativa to armada nerf slightly affects the timing. But I’m not sure. It seems easier when you don’t add a s.mp before cr.lp, f.mk. Doing s.mp makes it feel more like manual timing which I don’t like.


#11

Christie’s Vortexes in 2013

A vortex is a 50/50 setup that is loopable. A mixup that leads into the same mixup. I suppose every safe jump can technically be considered a vortex since the basic mixup is: meaty jump in or empty jump low/throw. But the most effective vortexes are the ones with multiple or uncertain outcomes.

Twister Sweep Vortex:

This is Christie’s vanilla vortex. She can: safe jump front, empty jump low front or empty jump low behind.

Handstand Front Stinger Vortex:

She can: safe jump front, safe jump cross-up, empty jump low/throw front and empty jump low/throw behind. Landing a throw ends the vortex loop (since she can’t get a safe jump from her throws). If you predict a roll you either get a free throw and remove red health or an ambiguous cross-up that can lead to the same setup again.

Christie could already do something similar with HK Twister Sweep, but she couldn’t cross-up so the oki mixup was kinda limited. Needing to end your combo prematurely with Twister Sweep also meant that you needed to sacrifice damage to get the vortex going. But now with this new BnB Christie deals a lot more damage and basically has 4-5 mixups in 1 instead of 3.


#12

Amazing stuff once again cant wait to get in the lab and practice it! :smiley: gonna hold it down for the ps3


#13

Thank you Vulc and everyone else for making Christie fun as hell xD. What’s her usual BnB off of a LP wheel kick? I looked through a few vids and saw nothing. Or is it not worth using compared to crHp?


#14

SRK what’d you do to the videos? D=


#15

<blockquote class=“Quote” rel=“XamistS”>SRK what’d you do to the videos? D=</blockquote>
Wow, that sucks lol. Give me a minute I’ll fix the links.


#16

<size=4><b>Option-Selects w/o safe jump</b></size>

After watching Flying Ve’s vid about SF command normals OS, I tried searching for something similar for Christie to catch backdashes and teleports. I already knew Rasteila could catch most backdashes, but that’s not really an OS since it always comes out on hit/block/whiff. Then I realized that Christie is one of the few characters in the game with a light normal that is not special cancellable. This allows Christie to buffer special moves that will only come out on whiff. Then while trying different things I discovered that you can slide inputs (instead of pressing buttons at the same time) to OS. So doing something like: cr.lp, (wait for chain window to end) cr.mk~cr.lp will get you a 2 hit link on hit, and on whiff cr.mk will catch the backdash during its ground recovery allowing for a full combo.

<u>Option-Selects: </u>

  1. cr.lp xx f,d,df+lp*
  2. cr.lp xx f,d,df+ppp*
  3. cr.lp, cr.mk/cr.mp~cr.lp
  4. cr.lp xx dash
  5. s.lp, f.mp~hold back
  6. s.lk~hold back xx fs.mk, mk/s.hp

*For the cr.lp xx LP WK/Super OS, it’s easier to get the timing if you pretend that Wheel Kicks is a DP motion. (press forward, then qcf+p). MP/HP Wheel Kicks are too slow to catch backdash (they however work as Safe Jump OS).

<u>Catches backdash but isn’t an option-select:</u>

  1. cr.lp, s.mk, cr.hk… mk, hk / hk
  2. LP Stinger (bounds vs airborne)
  3. f.hk, hk (floats)
  4. f.mk xx Perchflop Kick xx switch

<u>Preferred setups:</u>

  1. After a sweep
  2. j.hk, s.hp xx HP WK, cr.lp, s.mk xx LP DAS > ch store

After a ch store, the usually mixup people go for is: overhead/low, throw or frame trap. So the defending player’s usual “panic response” to counter hit storing is either reversal or backdash. But since DP xx switch is now unsafe on block, it’s likely that players will backdash more to get out of these pressure situations.


#17

Off of the front stinger crHK (whiff) safe jump you can super jump and the MK (sjMK) lands behind the opponent. Just in case your opponent grows aware of her set ups you can do that and it’s (from my experience) pretty indistinguishable from the regular set up. But I’m not sure how super jumps alter frame data so characters with a 4 frame dp you might want to be cautious using this around. Unless SJs don’t alter totals frames just distance in which case have a field day~ :]<br><br>Edit: for annotation lovers.<br>Hit confirm > Mp wheel kicks > stMP >(slight delay) cr.lp > Mk~Mk xx 236k hold 6, whiff crHK 9 jMk. jMK lands in front.<br><br>Hit confirm > Mp wheel kicks > stMP >(slight delay) cr.lp > Mk~Mk xx 236k hold 6, whiff crHK sj jMk. jMK lands in back. <br>


#18

That’s just awesome man, cool find.<br><br>It explains a lot of things like why sometimes my j.mk would cross-up whiff like vs Cammy. Now I know that I was probably inputting a super jump j.mk by accident. That and/or maybe I was doing cr.lp into gancho chibata too soon, because like you said it has to be slightly delayed to work properly.<br><br>I just tested it and the super jump only adds 1 frame. So instead of being a 4f safe jump the cross-up super jump variation is a 5f safe jump. Which is still really good and better/more ambiguous than the variation I was using (MK Handstand to make j.mk cross-up as 7f SJ).<br><br>Looks like Christie’s vortexes just got that much better. :)<br><br>EDIT: Wait, now I’m trying to re-create this and I’m getting mixed results. Sometimes the super jump j.mk hits behind, and sometimes it just whiffs behind.  I’m trying to understand why. I think I’m just not inputting the sj on the earliest frame. It’s kinda hard to time d, u/f after whiffing cr.hk as opposed to just holding u/f.<br>


#19

<blockquote class=“Quote”>
<div class=“QuoteAuthor”><a href="/profile/26486/Vulcan%20Hades">Vulcan Hades</a> said:</div>
<div class=“QuoteText”>That’s just awesome man, cool find.<br><br>It explains a lot of things like why sometimes my j.mk would cross-up whiff like vs Cammy. Now I know that I was probably inputting a super jump j.mk by accident. That and/or maybe I was doing cr.lp into gancho chibata too soon, because like you said it has to be slightly delayed to work properly.<br><br>I just tested it and the super jump only adds 1 frame. So instead of being a 4f safe jump the cross-up super jump variation is a 5f safe jump. Which is still really good and better/more ambiguous than the variation I was using (MK Handstand to make j.mk cross-up as 7f SJ).<br><br>Looks like Christie’s vortexes just got that much better. :)<br><br>EDIT: Wait, now I’m trying to re-create this and I’m getting mixed results. Sometimes the super jump j.mk hits behind, and sometimes it just whiffs behind.  I’m trying to understand why. I think I’m just not inputting the sj on the earliest frame. It’s kinda hard to time d, u/f after whiffing cr.hk as opposed to just holding u/f.<br></div>
</blockquote>

I’ve had the same problem initially even with the regular set up jMK whiffed in front for me for a while. I try to buffer 2369 at the least few frames of cr.Hk and it doesn’t whiff as often. But I need to clean up my timing and  inputs before I say anything definitive.<br>


#20

Christie corner safe jump I believe it’s a 4 frame, but I dunno how to call it I’ve tested on Ryu and Sagat so far.<br><br>Hit confirm > Mp wheel kicks > stMP > Negativa Armada > Handstand > Perchflop kick (hold up forward) jMk.<br><br>Since it’s the corner you can alter the timing to make it cross up. with Ryu LP Shoryu flat out lost, mp dp showed reversal but it caused him to flip out of the animation, EX whiffed entirely. (I tried with auto corrected DPs same result).<br>