Chun Li General Thread: Blue Jade

chun-li

#4001

I think it’s the right decision for him to move on.

I find her kinda boring actually, mostly because she’s basically the same, with the same struggles, even with the buffs. She still requires really too much energy to confirm things for little gain. Landing CC f.HK is not that easy, and the timing is kinda strict to have the c.lp combo after the dash (it’s not hard, but the dash better be not late).
Her VT2 is fun, but to make it work you have to react efficiently multiple times, for low to moderate damage for the most part, if not blocked of course.
Guard break is fun too, but the scaling to her already low damage make it look just… weak? I mean, there’s really no comeback potential like Menat’s or Boxer’s VT1s. And when people will figure it out, VT2 will suck even more.
V-skill still lame. Crippled throw game. Floaty jump. Slow overhead. Weak crossup. No real ambiguous jumps. No safe regular legs… that’s too much. I know they said (just before USF4 iirc) they didn’t want the char to have good ground game and good airgame, but she’s not that good on ground compared to others in SFV.
She got buffs but some already better chars received buffs too with negligeable nerfs. So kinda pointless in many of her bad match ups.
Personally, I’m not feeling rewarded anymore when I win. I feel just tired -__-. Aging’s not good guys lol


#4002

Chun Li isn’t a bad character. I can’t fault him for picking a higher tier – he’s an exceptional player and was completely handicapped by Chun last season – but I hope he at least uses Chun as a secondary.

I do feel that Menat makes Chun unviable to solo main. Everyone else besides Rashid (and who exactly counters Rashid?) is pretty manageable though. I personally don’t think the Akuma matchup is particularly difficult anymore and while Guile is hard, Humanbomb literally just beat him. MOV is a better player than to get 3-0d by that. You can’t even really solo main Guile though (Menat destroys him) so there’s no shame in picking up a new character.


#4003

HumanBomb said he no longer plans to solo main Chun, but at least that means he’ll still be using Chun. I think that’s the best route to go if you want to “main” Chun at events. There’s just certain matchups where you should have a secondary character like Nuckledu or Infiltration do. You need to play a character like Akuma or Rashid to solo main and win events. Characters that fit into specific archetypes like Chun get hard countered by things that don’t make it worth it.

Kindevu came outta nowhere with top 16 finish using Sakura, so I imagine that leaves room for HumanBomb to take his old main back as a new character. Very strong results for someone that new who isn’t considered super unga.

Don’t blame MOV though. There are better characters you can solo focus on to win tournaments and he mained Ibuki in SFIV any ways. He doesn’t have a problem playing other characters instead of Chun.


#4004

What matchups would you guys use chun in, I mean not just even matchups but what matchups do you guys feel are favourable for her?


#4005

The 3 shotos Ryu, Ken and Sakura are fine .
Karin is good. Mika and Laura are good imo.
She fight Birdie better than most too.

I really dont like/enjoy the Alex MU but i feel that othet characters deal with him much better than her.

Possibly Zeku too but i need more experience in it before i can decalre it a favorable MU.


#4006

I think she beats the shotos with the exception of Akuma.

Used to beat Kolin but not so sure anymore with 50:50 Trigger 2.

She also does well against Alex and Gief though both can steamroll her with two right reads in a row.

I think she beats Zeku but maybe too early to tell. Buffed b.HK certainly shuts down any kind of flip kick nonsense.

Loses hard to Guile, Dhalsim and Rashid.

Is hopeless against Menat.

Rest ist about even I think but there’s always the risk of getting killed in a comeback sequence by Laura, Ibuki etc. who technically don’t beat her until getting access to Trigger.


#4007

Karin, Birdie, Kolin, Cammy, Balrog, Alex, Ken, Mika, potentially Abigail, everyone says Vega although I don’t see it.

Kolin is absolutely a great match up, initially struggled and had to get the hang of it but now I feel it’s very doable as kolin still has to make hard reads not to die to fireballs. Have been doing very well against Kolins in my latest forays into ranked (including against neonverte so not exactly a slouch). Plus even if vt2 poses new challenges chun probably still deals with it better than most others.

Cammy instantly felt like a good matchup to me day 1 of ae the moment I hit a dive kick with b+hk. Doesn’t work all the time but since we went from straight up dying to dive kicks to actually being able to anti air her effectively now, the matchup dynamic has changed completely. Fought danslip recently in ranked and the matches I won felt pretty decisive. You can keep her out very effectively and even if she gets in, you just take a throw and you’re good.

Felt Chun fought Balrog better than most characters and it’s even more prominent now with him being toned down and f+hk having always been the best button against him.

Ken feels like the only easy shoto to me cause he’s pretty easy to fight grounded. That said Ive seen very different opinions on chun v. shotos.

I don’t feel fighting laura is that easy because they are so explosive and seem to be able to stun you so easily. I have lost countless times to exceptional Laura players… don’t know if it’s a mental block or anything but I don’t like the mu that much. I think Ibuki is easier than Laura personally but I am not sure I would say Ibuki is an easy mu.

All in all Chun actually has a fantastic mu spread. I would say there are only 3 match ups that are particularly hard (all of which were in evo top 8); although a lot of people will struggle with dhalsim as well, I don’t think it’s much of an issue myself. It makes it all the more baffling to me that MOV would drop chun.


#4008

Menat is only going to get more prominent in tournaments and neither Guile nor Rashid aren’t going anywhere. If you want to win you’re not going to do it with Chun. Can completely understand MOV dropping her.


#4009

The optimist in me supposes that, since the entire community is complaining about Rashid, there’s no way he won’t get nerfed into the ground. That’s probably not what Capcom is likely to do midseason though.


#4010

Pretty much. Ibuki even now has no match that’s as lopsided as Chun’s worst matches. Chun is at the point where if you don’t play her with a pocket or switch to a main with a better matchup spread you won’t see top 3 of any big event.


#4011

Only match up that I am confident using Chun Li is vs. Honda.


#4012

The only matchup I feel I’m truly uncomfortable with is Dhalsim. I feel like there’s too much guesswork involved in catching him in neutral to get into an advantageous up-close position. Knowing that he’s really minus after blocking a limb helps, but the action you take after to capitalize on that is still a hard read and he can wait/stagger to throw that off. He also gets around Chun’s fireballs too easily. At least with reflect/absorb type moves, I can bait and manipulate their reactions more and even punish them for it sometimes. Dhalsim just kind of ignores that all together.

I don’t get that same feeling vs Menat in neutral as I know where I can be midrange and where she becomes limited and punishable in her options and getting in isn’t as much of a hassle. It’s Menat’s V-trigger that has too much guesswork involved (and imo is a bit too strong for how easily she gains it). I think more exposure to Menat needs to happen in general for people to get a grasp on how to deal with her… but her v-trigger will always be a factor that can fuck up the entire round for anyone.

I hate Akuma too, but I’ve always hated fighting him in every game.

Vs other characters that may give me trouble, just like Menat, it’s more their V-triggers being BS that’s a problem for me rather than the base character. A lot of the things I hated about certain base characters in Season 2 (Rashid’s hurtboxes, Balrog’s BS damage and move properties etc.) got nerfed to a degree where I’m not bothered anymore by that. So yeah, a few v-triggers are still bullshit and unavoidable, but I’m liking the direction the gameplay takes before that part kicks in.

…wake up Aegis in the corner is still wack.


#4013

Thanks to in game frame data I’ve figured out some stuff about Kikosho and the b+HP corner reset. Context: I thought that you could only get the Kikosho side switch off of a +15 st.lp, and posted in this thread about that, however I have just found out that wasn’t the case. Not sure what I was doing wrong but you can reset with a +17 cr.lp. You can immediately go into f+hk which will stay on the same side and be +1 oB (+3 +5 on regular hit), which also leaves you in range to throw [Disadvantage of doing f+hk rather than a late dash to stay on the same side is it’s a bit less ambiguous and can be blocked/DPed more easily etc]. The reset can be done off of pretty much anything off of any range (cr.lp, st.mp, cr.mk xx HK legs xx mini kikosho; st.hp xx mini kikosho; b+mp xx mini kikosho) as long as they’re in the corner. Also applies to b+HP CC reset so if you guys are doing st.lp or st.lk to reset (+15), stop doing that now.

@Darklightjg1 I’m pretty comfortable in the sim MU and have 2 videos of sets against decent sims. Can post if you want, my playstyle against him has been analyzed somewhat a few pages back but it can be a bit different seeing it in action. Hope I don’t come across as too self centered or anything though :O!


#4014

Yeah, I’ll check them out if you post them. Don’t mind seeing other people’s approach to stuff as there’s usually always something I can take away from it or shows stuff I may not be thinking about mid-match.


#4015

s2 match against a bit more of a grounded Sim, MU is pretty much the same (if not easier) in s3 however.

match very early on in s3. Bit sloppy of play on both sides but you can see more of my offensive sequences. More of a float heavy sim.

Looking back at these matches I think using f+hk effectively is super critical even against more floaty players as I got hit by a lot of slides and such in the second video whereas I shut it down heavily in the first.

Also a few things I picked up from Alex Myers (a few days ago, he went over his set against Mister Crimson’s Sim at Evo Japan) is that 1) if you want to whiff punish it’s much more effective to look at his body rather than trying to only react to his extended limbs and 2) his yoga fireball retracts his hurtbox deceptively far back, so even if he does it in your face it’s very hard to hit him out of it with a light. Recovery is quite long though so you can actually just poke him out but you will need to block the fireball, it won’t be plus if you stop him from doing slide though (see 0:53 then 6:14 of second vid).


#4016

vs Sim - I’m having difficulty with against his j.hp.

It’s such a huge wall. Currently I’m trying to preempt it with st.hk (or ex legs with a read) or wait and dash in. I find I can’t contest him when he is in the air because of it.

I’m also having a bit of a problem using b.hk to stuff his air teleports but I think that might just be a timing issue I need to work on. Sometimes I’m late, and sometimes I get f.hk b/c of the side switch.


#4017

For teleports I’d just go with st. LK/LP and then go for meaty pressure on the way down. Having to choose what side to execute a command normal on after a teleport or ambiguous sided move like Bison’s DR can lead to some problems as you already noted.
I’d also air grab the teleports as a punish, but you need to be ready for it if you want to do that and some Sims like to play around with their teleports. They do shit like teleport in place just to distract you or bait you into doing something stupid.
But overall st. LK is the go to response for teleport, so that you don’t screw yourself over with greed.

I actually need to test the new hitbox changes vs his j. HP, j. LP, drills etc. when I get home. If you’re in range, Chun’s st. HK will pretty much beat j.HP. The annoying thing to me is if he floats backwards with V-skill, this becomes a lot harder to do. I also forgot that he’s in counterhit state at the start of his V-skill and you can CC st. HK him on the way up (that video jogged my memory on that as well as st. HK to catch a lot of his follow-up grounded normals after blocking one).


#4018

I don’t know if this is common knowledge by now, but cr. MK when blocked up close still leaves you in range to throw your opponent (I mentioned this before and wished it was + to threaten the opponent with). Kikosho will temporarily help to check people who would mash after blocking it.
Cr. MK xx Kikosho frame traps 3f buttons, so you can leverage that to get a throw game going. Of course it’s still starting with a 6f normal, so you have to take that into account, but they could be eating anywhere from about 200-475 damage (depending on your meter) should they choose not to respect it.


#4019

#4020

Back with more Kikosho tech, more corner mixups but this one is specific to the initial activation.

If you activate VT2 and go immediately into st.lk (+18), a dash immediately afterwards will always stay on the same side. However, if you delay the st.lk slightly (+17), the dash will side switch. I can’t even really tell the difference between the st.lk’s myself, so you can imagine how ambiguous it is in a real match, but look at the frame data or try it out.

Can also do a really meaty f+hk instead of dashing to stay on the same side. Off of +18 st.lk it should be +2 oB although I think I messed it up in the recording.