pft. same thing nki, haha.
nice joke there, if it was one.
if it wasn’t, oh well, lolz for me.
pft. same thing nki, haha.
Help with how to Shut Ryu and blanka Down with Chun- [ST]
Basically I want to stop his fireball game and and meter building, so I need some poking advice to ensure that I maintain control and so that I can scare him into not doing anything stupid. Also, I’d like to be able to bait srk without jumping or risking landing on a fireball. I guess I could set up a low poking pattern or something. For the fireballs I typically will try to get in close and pull a st. mk, which would hit him if he did it. Backing in and out with this and stand mp would work in theory and possibly bait out an srk or set up a walk up throw or hk knockdown.
Blanka is especially hard for me. He can get in so close so quickly and his gimmicks really put a hurt on you. I can throw fireballs and whiff jabs to sort of scare a Blanka into not forward rolling, and jump lk a little to not up-roll as much, but then he starts building meter and I have to do something about that, or just wait for him to super and hope I can jump over it and knock him down. Getting him to jump and land on a fireball would seem like a viable option but I would have to make him do it first. I wanna know how to keep the pressure on this electric green ape too, so that I have control, no him. Also faced a really good ken today who seemed like he was doing a lot of subtle mind games to throw me off. I don't know too many with Chun, and I will need to for tournaments etc if one comes up near my area. Wake up (okizeme) stuff would be neat. So far I can st hp, do c mk c hk to knock down again, or just mess with em with fireballs suffers and try a throw. Occasionally I can do an overhead d. mp or instant n. air hk, or df hk.
What other meaties does she have besides c mk?
Can I get some help please?
Ryu wins this match 6-4, and I believe this is not really one of those “loser gotta be amazing to make it 6-4.” It seems some basic Chun stuff can give Ryu a lot of trouble. Anyway, let’s start from the beginning.
Ryu will not throw SRKs if Chun does not leave the ground, as her normals are hard to hit with it. A too early or too late SRK will miss cr.forward, and other attacks often whiff. If you want to try something, it would be getting to the range SRK misses a neckbreaker, and hope he does not recognize it and does a jumping strong x3. Don’t try it against good Ryus.
Speaking of jumping in, it is important to learn how to cross him up. Then get to that range and jump with short, so if the Ryu player is holding the joystick back, he gets pinned down and is forced to block. If he tries a lat hadouken, he will get hit on the head while still grounded and eat a small combo. Avoid jumping before forcing Ryu to throw hadoukens. There are two main ways of doing it: the first one is keeping up with the projectile war so that he gets used to throwing from 3 to 5 projectiles before forcing you to block or jump. As he gets trained into throwing many of them, you can jump when it is appropriate. The other one is to get him in the corner and apply some pressure, such as meaty cr.forward, cr.foward, jab kikouken, then walk up a bit and attack again. Something like this. As soon as you give him a little air to breath, faint as you are walking up then jump. Ryu’s most reliable way of avoiding Chun’s pressure is to sneak a red hadouken between her pokes, so odds are he is looking for it. Or jump as soon as he recovers from blockstun if he is likely to throw a hadouken right away.
You must learn Chun’s punch into fierce kikouken or lightning legs combos, so you can jump and either stun him or get him almost stunned. That way, in most rounds you guess right a jump in, you will win. If you have not attacked him recently, you can try a combo ending with cr.roundhouse and try a throw, overhead or bait a move as he wakes up. Dizzy, peace out.
Chun Li recovers instantly from jumps if she uses a head stomp. It can be hard to throw her if you jump forward, whiff a headstomp and throw the enemy as soon as you land on the other side. Just don’t get into the habit of doing it every time: you will miss opportunities of finishing matches right away with her dizzy combos.
When Ryu is wondering what to do or waiting a move, try just walking forward, and take note what is his default action. Just by walking forward to get in range to use your vastly superior pokes and harass him. Ryu can not compete with Chun’s ground game, so he will eventually try a walk up sweep/forward or sneak some red hadouken in between your pokes. This is why Chun must not attack relentlessly, but throw get back just a bit to give him room to whiff or leave standing forwards and roundhouses so as to beat eventual hadoukens or tatsus.
BTW, as Ryu is often waiting for a whiffed attack so as to counter-attack, and Chun is quite fast anyway, have the walk-up strong throw in mind. That does damage similar to an SPD if the enemy does not soften it. Also, after meaty attacks and blocked air moves, always consider it, depending on the enemy’s style. Reversal-happy Ryus have trouble with Chun and she has pokes with descent range and a fast speed: just let him whiff a reversal SRK and throw.
Check this also. It is in HDR thread but I had written it based on ST alone. And remember this: “If Chun can not dominate Ryu and force him to take risks, she has no business expecting to win.”
In addition to that post, know that in ST Chun can keep Ryu guessing on wake-up with her neckbreaker. From point-blank range, it switches sides and he gotta block the other direction. Some players also do not know you can block it while crouching, so they sometimes get hit low.
One thing I’ve always wondered is why is there Old Chun players in Japan? I know a couple of her hitboxes give her better AA’s, but overall you lose her super which is extremely good. This is one ST mystery I’ve yet to figure out.
Some people just like how the old character versions play. I’ve seen Japanese O.Fei, O.Ryu, and O.Boxer specialists and Shirts (a U.S. player) uses O.Dhalsim a lot. Pretty much all of the competitive O.Characters have a specialist playing them. It’s really just personal preference for the most part. The Japanese use more regular Ken, Hawk, and Sagat compared to their O.Character versions as well even though the O.Versions are better.
As O.Chun, you’re trading some of her poke rushdown, super, and upkicks for a much better set of air forwards, cancellable far fierce, and an SBK set much more capable of getting your ass out of a corner. Her flip kick is actually usable in a few places as well, and her neutral jumping roundhouse has a brief hitbox shift back at her legs. It’s slightly worse for punishing fireballers, but it’s slightly better against a few longer-range normals.
Against Guile and the like, she’s nowhere near as good as N.Chun, but against Zangief she really shines.
Thing with the fierce combos is that you need to jump for them. luckily i know how to land a jumper on ryu.
vs hawk, throw slow fireballs. if he jumps for a HOOWUH dive j lk or lk tenshokyaku (d, u, k). from far away-ish j hk can work. risng hawk… dont jump at him. grappler matches with chun you typically just turtle through. as for j lp, dont jump at him too much.
as a note ive seen jp players use jump over/fake crossup d plus air mk to set up throws.
Alright, I thought there was some mysterious secret that makes O.Chun really crazy that no one knew about.
Having trouble vs dictator. I can get an inch here and there and make it even but it’s such work being that the only reversals I have are the wierd lk tenshokyaku and the super, which can be frustrating and hard to do on a circular d pad. J lk works for a knockdown, but the most effective anti air is j hk. Generally he’s so fast once he gets started that I get killed instantly if I don’t work at it.
[disclaimer : i’m guilty that i haven’t read through the past 7 pages yet, this thread could use a bump anyway
so what to do when fei has you cornered and do that hp xx chicken wing lockdown?
djasshole did that to me yesterday and i can’t do anything about it
also, how do to st jab, st tab xx legs consistently? i mash lp+lk (repeat) and it sometimes works.
and when you don’t have super stored, how to do st jab x 2 (maybe another normal) xx super? (i.e. you start charging when you begin your combo)
also, why don’t people use the hf combo more often? (jump hp, hp xx legs). it’s a big 3 hit combo plus 50% chance bonus lucky 4th hit if opponent tries to push a button after the first 3 hits.
(gotta whore the top tier if you’re not talented. too bad osagat, boxer and claw are all really boring)
Try not to get there in the first place. Like I said many times Chun has weird matchups and in certain spaces an advantage matchup can turn ugly. REALLY, REALLY UGLY. She doesn’t have as good of get out of jail cards as you think she would. You kinda have to work your way out.
Otherwise try legs or something. You can attempt a tensho or buffer legs duing blockstun to try to push your way out. Don’t be afraid to counter throw either. This game has reverse ticks. Also there are certain moves chicken wing can lose to easily. I don’t play vs fei much so I’m not a super expert here. Try legs, try the really fast pokes like st lk/mk or tensho. Super should work, and I suggest building meter really quickly in case you get locked down. Chun can do some really neat things with super. Ever seen DJ dread kicks>super? Chun can do that near the corner.
Also it would help to look at the frame/hitbox data comparison site that I believe you posted on here originally. Either you or pasky.
Some chun super tricks that I was going to post up
Cmk to super- does not combo often. Walk forward super motion, down mk very quickly, then very quickly negative edge forward k or press forward k.
Fireball> Cmk> super: Do back, forward P, back, hold forward to follow the fireball, then connect with a cmk using the above trick and super, can follow up with upkicks.
Crossing up or being crossed up and supering> Switch charge directions with specific timing. From the wiki,
The most damaging meterless combo/un-combo thing ever: J hk> hk legs. 75 percent, stuns. Good luck landing it though.
stand at your opponent’s max poke range and mash some legs. builds meter, if you are a bit close they proximity block, which sets up a throw, and from max range most pokes won’t go into her uh… weak spot.
st lk is good. better than you would think. beats a lot of stuff that it has no right to beat.
I’m no Chun expert, but as per NKI’s wiki post, I think the best bet is a mix between reversal throw, SBK and Upkicks. It’s amazing that Fei can just shut Chun down like that. Also amazing is that Chun can actually walk under his RH CW! I wonder if it’s possible to walk forward and block at the last second if it is a Forward CW. Prolly not, or maybe the Forward CW crosses up! That would be a devastating combo LOL. Good luck tho.
NKI is the reason she has a wiki.
Heck, NKI *IS *a Chun Wiki. Miss that dude, he was/probably still is sooo good.
I got some interesting tech used on me by the Japanese Chun-Li player SENretsuGirl on G.G.P.O. I.D.K. if he/she was using macros, but what that person could do with Chun was pretty nuts.
Use S.B.K.* as an overhead** with O. chun*
This is just nuts. Technically, the input would have to be down/down back, up, forward kick. So down back, circle aroud to up, circle around to forward just in time, then kick. IDK if this is a macro or just an extremely devoted S.T. Otaku… And even then, he would have to achieve this on purpose in the first place to record it. He was doing jump forward spinning bird kick with N. Chun too, but according to him the overhead trick- or J.F. S.B.K. or whatever, Sen couldn’t type much in English but could read well. This is definitely something I’d like to learn to do. It would be nice vs O. Sagat at certain ranges. Am I right on the theoretical input?
EDIT: OK, it’s easy with old chun. d/db, up forward kick. now onto n chun. anyone got anything about that?
Consistently use 2 different height jabs to hit confirm into legs.
Humanly possibly, but dang is it hard without turbo.
J. hk, St. hp, Some rather damaging from of legs.
A Bnb of sorts, but with higher damage versions of legs it’s rather difficult unless you were to buffer during both hits- which I find easiest when testing by using turbo. Lk legs would work but many times this combo stunned, so I’m assuming it was medium or hard kick. Almost a tod!
Not as amazing but…
I learned St. lp’s pretty good vs fake Crossups. This was a Chun mirror and I tend to do some fakes.
In general, this chun was insanely on point and good. Please play vs him/her. He even used the old fireball> super trick, which was pretty cool! I don’t see a lot of Chuns on there apart from people who switch to her momentarily because they think she’s “easy”, so I in general don’t get to see much of her new-ish tech. The best I’ve seen are this user and lightning@legs or something, also Japanese.
What do you mean, the SBK as an overhead? I believe it has altitude requirements when used in the air, and the start-up is as long as N.Chun’s. Did you record the replay?
No. It did hit me crouching I think.
I’m always baffled how on paper chun is supposed to have an advantage against hawk, it seems like she always gets into this situation easily
Why isn’t that legit for hawk?
I can sometimes walk under hit, walk under throw, but nothing i do seems to be consistent to avoid/get out of that situation…
Chun Li’s close standing strong and forward can both beat T.Hawk’s splash if you can time them properly. If you have the charge for it, you can time her upkicks late and beat it as well. Practice, and you’ll get the feel in no time.
Her SBK can be used late to trade out of the corner, worst-case.
It’s one of those situations where the Hawk will just repeat it unmercifully unless you can prove that you know how to get out of it. With Dic I try to fierce PC out, but then if the Hawk is mixing it up with splash and tick throw it can still be painful.
Edit to add: remember that in ST block stun and hit stun are generally the same duration, so if you want a down charge you can take the first hit.