same here i have a really hard time against guiles any tips you can give us NKI?
If he’s throwing booms from far away you can easily j.forward to close the gap, keep him in block stun with cr.forward, s.strong, if you can bait a flash kick faking a walk up throw, knock him down (fireball, upkicks, sweep, whatever), then df+roundhouse all day, beats flashkick clean and crosses him up.
Watch out for his cr.forward since it has longer range than yours, also j.roundhouse has crazy range so don’t get sloppy with your fireballs, and of course if he’s throwing booms from close distance, don’t throw fireballs or you’ll eat a backfist to the face.
And of course, if you see him crouching, don’t jump at him :looney:
I play it simple, don’t try to predict fireballs, not only cause if they fake it out they’ll flash kick you, but chances are he’ll be able to recover in time, not worth it, if you really have to jump at him do it on reaction and remember head stomp beats everything he has when he has no low charge. Should be Chun’s match really.
Random thought on Chun vs. Guile: as far as I can tell, Guile has the potential to do standing anti-air against all of Chun’s most common jumping attacks from medium-far range. If he can position himself perfectly, he can do a s.far strong at just the right moment and distance so that the second hitting sprite (arm extended in the air) barely connects with jumping Chun’s hitbox. This will cleanly beat her j.short, j.forward, j.RH, and j.fierce. Her j.jab and j.strong seem to randomly trade.
Luckily, it seems only the very best Guile players know about and can execute this consistently, but if they do, it can make a barrage of Sonic Booms a lot more intimidating, and you can’t just rely on being able to j.forward over his Booms on reaction from long range.
I have some catching up to do…
Sure, I meant j. forward from real far away, if he’s from the other side of the screen, you can close the gap (you won’t hit him) and he can’t do much against it.
Or use j. forward over booms if you are forced to jump in, to avoid time out loss or whatever. You shouldn’t be jumping much against Guile, even if he can’t anti-air you he’ll probably block anyway.
I admit I didn’t know of s.strong beating Chun’s jump ins (any vids?), I’m still 99% sure it can’t beat head stomps though, can you confirm?
Yeah, I didn’t mean to be a downer or anything. I’m no expert or anything, and I thought your strats were helpful to read. :tup:
Ha, that makes two of us; I didn’t know about it either for the longest time. It’s pretty obscure (well, unless you’re a pro or something) and extremely difficult to do, but it’s like this:
You can see it in videos like [media=youtube]dm0_JSW7Gik]Tohjyo vs. Muteki video at 1:02 or [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KscrEJgnNsU[/media] at 5:21.
Haha, actually, I hate to be so disagreeable :bgrin:, but I think Guile has one tricky tactic here too, namely trying to make her land on a c.forward:
In the [media=youtube]KscrEJgnNsU[/media] at 2:56, poor Chun does j.forward from far away and takes the low hit. You can also see this sequence clearly at 3:41, though the kick in that one is a hair late and Chun lands in time to block. Guile can also try this tactic of making Chun land on a c.forward if she jumps straight up (over a Boom or whatever). Of course, this is quite difficult for Guile to do, especially 'cause his c.forward comes out moderately slowly, but it is possible.
And yeah, you’re absolutely right in that Chun Li’s head stomp will beat either one of these moves. If Guile gets good at anticipating and punishing that too, then you have a guessing game.
Wow… I’m not jumping ever again against Guile.
Heh, well, I don’t think it’s that bad at all given the all the factors – the obscurity of the moves (especially the s.far strong), the extreme speed and precision required to execute them (if Muteki can’t always pull them off, how are your random opponents going to?), the fact that you can always throw him for a loop with the Head Stomp like you mentioned, or the option to roll the dice with j.jab or j.strong against his s.far strong. I might be overlooking things, too. I think you might argue that this is dangerously close to Theory Fighter for most players and not really of much practical importance.
It’s just that if his air defense is extra tight, the focus turns to the ground. And I think that’s not necessarily the easiest thing in the world either if he wants to turn into a Sonic Boom factory, especially if he can whip them out one after another very fast. It’s hard to advance from middle range or farther against it, and getting into a fireball war has to be done with caution. He can punish you with j.RH from any range, whereas it’s much harder for you to do the same, 'cause Chun’s jump is so much slower. On the other hand, you’re building meter when trading fireballs, so if you’re good with the super…
Again, that’s just my 2 tokens. Don’t take me too seriously; it’s much better to listen to people who don’t suck. :wgrin:
What an excellent post and reply. What a way to educate and back up you statements.
Raisin raisng the bar … + rep
Excellent posts, Raisin. :tup:
It’s not as simple as “use jump straight up Short against Blanka” or whatever, because she has to use different normals depending on the distance and height, and possibly what move the opponent is doing.
Against Claw, jump straight up Short and upkicks both work well.
Hrm? Why not…? That’s probably my main anti air against Claw…
Why’s that? If it works, use it! :tup:
Maybe this weekend I’ll have time to sit down and write it all out.
I’m fairly sure that Guile has no good anti air against Chun’s max range j.Forward. Out of all the Guile’s I’ve ever played (including Muteki), none of them have ever beaten it cleanly. (In the video Raisin linked to, Kita was too far away when he jumped, so his j.Forward whiffed.)
Yeah, I got that (“It’s not as simple as…”)…I just don’t have steady enough competition to point myself in the right direction, and it seems like the CPU claw can just jump in all day, so it wasn’t much use to play the computer and find out…In any case, thanks a ton!
Oh, while I’m posting, I have another question: Why J.Forward in so many situations, instead of J.Short? It seems like J.Short beats a lot more stuff…Besides the ability to cross-up, what’s the deal with J.Forward?
Really? I always lose to Vega’s j. fierce if he jumps from pretty close, so that he hits your head, am I doing it to early?
Yeah, if I could do it 100% of the time I’d definitely use it because of the knockdown, but it’s not that easy so I’d rather use some non-link combos, oh well… back to training.
Oh yeah, thanks to Raisin for the heads up.
I understand you not wanting to rely on that link combo. You could just practice it (I know I should) untill you get it down or use…
j. RH, s. FP xx fireball
…insted. You probably know about it already but it’s my dizzy combo of choice. It doesn’t knockover and leaves them at a distance (which probably isn’t what you want) but it does good damage and if they’re dizzied it’ll near enough finish them off. Plus you can store the super during the fireball.
Yo man, I know that, the problem is that combo doesn’t work on everyone mid-screen, dic, guile to name a few, unless I’m doing something wrong but I don’t think that’s the case, a few posts above I made a list of the combos (non link) I came up for every char and I would have liked someone to confirm that.
Anyway I can nail j.roundhouse, s.strong, cr.roundhouse about 50% of the time now, I’m getting there I guess.
I figured that you’d already know it already but I thought I’d post anyway. I didn’t realise that it missed certain characters. What I would say though is do it on everyone that it hits and just go for the link on everyone else. There isn’t really another good damage, easy combo that’s universal I don’t think. You could replace the cr. RH with s. FP which I think is a little bit easier but again doesn’t knock down.
actually j. RH, s. SP xx fireball hit’s on both of those characters, it’s really easy and does about 40% anyway. If you don’t have the link down go for that insted. It’s better than missing the link.
I always do the link combo, i don’t really bother with the other one. I get it consistently, and prefer the knockdown. Also you can set up a throw /c.rh mixup after the close strong if you want too.
Which Razor Kick are you doing with Chun? Short has, by far, the most invincibility.
Isn’t Jump Fierce, Fierce XX Lightning Kick the best Combo for Chun Li? That what I usually go for, even though I mess it up a lot. But that one works on everyone, I’m pretty sure, does good damage, and leaves you in a decent distance.
I’m using short yeah, that’s the only one I use as an antiair.
Maybe I’m reading this wrong, but it looks to me like the red hitbox is on Chun’s legs during the invincibility frames, so if he’s over my head he won’t get hit and he can hit me as soon as my invicibility is over and I’m in a non-hitting frame (http://nki.combovideos.com/ST/tenshyoukyaku.jpg).
But if you guys say it works, I’ll definitely look closer into it.
I didn’t consider that, but I’m assuming it works on the same chars j.fierce, s.forward xx lightning legs works on, which again isn’t everyone, anyway I tried it against another Chun, which is the one who gives me the most trouble (other than Chun’s mirror matches being terrible for me, but that’s another story), and lightning legs seem to miss, I once got crossup j.fierce, backwards s.fierce xx backwards lightning legs for a 3 hit combo, but don’t ask me how:sweat:
Anyway this is just nitpicking, I’ll go back to practicing that damn link and in the meantime I’ll use the combos I posted earlier.
I’m also interested in how you pull that combo, it’s the first time I really practiced it, what I did was jump, press fierce+forward together, land, mash fierce+forward, works ok on Zangief. Also, is there any difference in damage using short instead? It comes out much more easily.
yea the timing for it is really weird cause sometimes i’ll start mashing the kicks too ealry so i dont get shit out then i get thrown >.>
Actually j.Forward has the bigger hit box, so j.Forward beats a lot more stuff than j.Short. (This is also the reason why it’s easier to use j.Forward for a cross-up.)
Yeah, you gotta have your distance right. If he’s jumping from that close, just take a step forward (to walk under him, because he has nothing to cross you up with) and throw him when he lands.
For lightning legs, Short does one percent less than Forward, which does one percent less than RH.